Our loss is on the offense...Wisconsin's loss is on the Head Coach

[We're Comin']

I timed our first two possessions of the 2nd half - both were under 3 minutes running time. Our defense can't get a good rest in 3 minutes. Please put in some short passes on 1st down. The inside hand off is not working!

B Bielema cost Wisconsin the game and potentially a shot at the National Championship. OUCH dick head

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I'm not really disagreeing with you, but how do you think Bielema cost them the game? Calling the timeouts to try to get the ball back? I think that's one of those hindsight things, MSU didn't really seem like a team that was going to get a first down and they still left MSU with only a hail mary, it worked, but it's kind of a freakish play.

As far as passing more on first down, I do agree to get Gray in the swing of things a bit more but it wasn't like Gray and our offense were constantly in 3rd and longs. We ran the ball decent against Nebraska, especially considering we are almost no threat to pass the ball. I think we have such a hard time throwing the ball that even the short passes we'll have a hard time completing and then it'd be 2nd and 10 and we'd really be behind the 8 ball.

 

[Formo]

I'm not really disagreeing with you, but how do you think Bielema cost them the game? Calling the timeouts to try to get the ball back? I think that's one of those hindsight things, MSU didn't really seem like a team that was going to get a first down and they still left MSU with only a hail mary, it worked, but it's kind of a freakish play.

Plain and simple, they were the worst TOs called in the history of bad TOs being called. Take the overtime instead of giving MSU multiple breathers and chances on offense to draw up plays.

You are a great football mind and poster, Bob. But my God, how in the blue Hell can you say that those TOs weren't the cause of the game being given to Sparty?

 

[MNVCGUY]

Bielema is aggressive and he plays for the win at all times. It bit him in the ass this time but in general I like the idea of a coach that plays to win and doesn't play not to lose. I think the guy is a complete jackass in general but I can respect his coaching style because clearly they are doing something right over there and it has hit the point where you can't attribute his and the teams success to having Alvarez's players.

Then again I can't help but wonder what they would look like this year if a stud QB had not just fallen into their lap.

 

[matt]

Plain and simple, they were the worst TOs called in the history of bad TOs being called. Take the overtime instead of giving MSU multiple breathers and chances on offense to draw up plays.

You are a great football mind and poster, Bob. But my God, how in the blue Hell can you say that those TOs weren't the cause of the game being given to Sparty?

I didn't mind the first timeout when Michigan State was at 2nd and 16 and looked miserable so far on the drive.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Formo-

I am going to have to agree with Bob. I hate Bielama as much as the next guy, but you cannot fault your head coach for trying to WIN the game. Sconnie had just scored two straight TD's and had all the momentum. After the sack was a perfect time to call the TO. You have the momentum, you have them in 2nd and long and MSU has a history of folding up the tent and blowing games. Now, it is not a Gopher-like history, but a history nonetheless.

 

[dpodoll68]

Formo-

I am going to have to agree with Bob. I hate Bielama as much as the next guy, but you cannot fault your head coach for trying to WIN the game. Sconnie had just scored two straight TD's and had all the momentum. After the sack was a perfect time to call the TO. You have the momentum, you have them in 2nd and long and MSU has a history of folding up the tent and blowing games. Now, it is not a Gopher-like history, but a history nonetheless.

The fact that Wisconsin had the momentum is all the more reason NOT to call the timeouts. I have zero doubt that, if that game went into OT, the Vadgers would've won.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

Agree to disagree. As Herm once said, "you play to win the game."

 

[Dr.Don]

If wiskey would not have called the TO's, then lost in overtime to Sparty, this thread would not exist, but would be about how BB lost the game because he did NOT call the TO's.

Holy Jesus Martha, what a bunch of hind-sight 20-20 vision people are.

 

[Omega015]

The timeout was a TERRIBLE decision and I said it to my friends immediately when it happened. There were only 30 seconds left in the game when that timeout was called. Best case scenario for Wisconsin after the timeout is that Michigan State punts the ball and Wisconsin either blocks it or has <20 seconds left to go 50 yards to attempt a field goal. As Wisconsin found out, it was more likely that Michigan State would be the team to move the ball into scoring range in the remaining time.

 

[dpodoll68]

If wiskey would not have called the TO's, then lost in overtime to Sparty, this thread would not exist, but would be about how BB lost the game because he did NOT call the TO's.

Holy Jesus Martha, what a bunch of hind-sight 20-20 vision people are.

Nope. I was watching the game at the time and immediately stated what a terrible decision it was. As Omega already said, there simply was not enough time remaining for any realistic scenario in which Wisconsin could score. Had there been 1:30 instead of 0:30 on the clock, it would be a different discussion. The only thing achieved by calling a TO there is making it more likely that MSU would score, which is exactly what ended up happening, even if it was on a fluke play.

 

[Monty519]

It was a gamble, and they lost. If this was Kill doing the same thing, I probably wouldn't have had a problem with it. I have a problem with anything Beilema does though, so yeah, it was a dumb call LOL.

Flip it around though. Say they get the stop, MSU punts. Assuming that punt isn't blocked (MSU had already done it to them), maybe Becky gets it around their 30 with like :20. Complete a couple of 10,15 yard passes and they're the ones at the 50 yard line, throwing up a Hail Mary to win in regulation.

I don't know, regarding the momentum Becky had, I don't know if that really carries into OT considering the rules. Both teams get the ball in scoring position, it's not like they just keep playing the same way. MSU's last three drives went 3 and out, so it's not like they could have expected them to actually get a 1st down, but hey, credit MSU, they made plays when it was there to be done.

 

[GopherinFlorida]

Yeah, and is isn't like there has ever been a time when a late punt goes awry and it leads to a go ahead score....oh wait, that is exactly what happened to us against Sconnie a few years ago when our effing punter dropped the ball.

It was 2nd and 16 inside the MSU 25...you call that timeout every time IMO. The first down and then the hail mary pass were both long shots...I think Belemia made the right call...and I couldn't be happier that it blew up in his face. Happiest 5 minutes of college football all year for me!

 

[Formo]

Formo-

I am going to have to agree with Bob. I hate Bielama as much as the next guy, but you cannot fault your head coach for trying to WIN the game. Sconnie had just scored two straight TD's and had all the momentum. After the sack was a perfect time to call the TO. You have the momentum, you have them in 2nd and long and MSU has a history of folding up the tent and blowing games. Now, it is not a Gopher-like history, but a history nonetheless.

I'll give him the first timeout as a valid call. But the last two boggled my mind. I couldn't believe he was HELPING the offense at that time. To me, it wasn't about OT or no OT. It was about helping the offense that needed any sort of point to win the game.

 

[Omega015]

Yeah, and is isn't like there has ever been a time when a late punt goes awry and it leads to a go ahead score....oh wait, that is exactly what happened to us against Sconnie a few years ago when our effing punter dropped the ball.

It was 2nd and 16 inside the MSU 25...you call that timeout every time IMO. The first down and then the hail mary pass were both long shots...I think Belemia made the right call...and I couldn't be happier that it blew up in his face. Happiest 5 minutes of college football all year for me!

I won't address our coaching staff's inability to tell the punter to take a safety if you can't get the punt off because the only thing you cannot do is give up a touchdown.

The reason you don't call the timeout is because it is 2nd & 16. There is only 30 seconds left when that timeout is called. MSU has to run more plays before Wisky can even force them to punt. There just wasn't going to be enough time left for Wisconsin to make plays to get into scoring position unless MSU does something catastrophic.

 

[MNVCGUY]

I hate that I am about the defend BB again but he stated in one interview or another that they were trying to force them to punt in order to go for the block. They probably would have rushed everyone and if the punter gets it off then the game goes to overtime. He was playing to win on the road and I like that attitude.

I agree with Dr. Don in the sentiment that if they play for OT and lose then people would have been up in arms about him not using the timeouts when the other team is pushed back in their own territory. It backfired but unlike his decision to go for 2 against us, in this case I think it was a good aggressive move that just didn't work. For a fan base that has watched its squad lose so many games over the years by not being aggressive I would think there would be more of us that would like that coaching style. Maybe it has something to do with who was making the decision and not the decision itself.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

OK, OK...I think some of the facts of the situation are not correct. So for accuracy sake, here is the drive log. The TO's were not included, so we will have to figure out where they were taken.

1st-10, MIST22 1:26 K. Cousins passed to L. Bell to the left for 3 yard gain
2nd-7, MIST25 1:20 K. Cousins incomplete pass to the left
3rd-7, MIST25 1:15 K. Cousins passed to L. Bell to the left for 9 yard gain
1st-10, MIST34 1:10 K. Cousins rushed to the left for 11 yard loss. K. Cousins fumbled. Michigan St. recovered fumble
2nd-21, MIST23 0:42 K. Cousins passed to B. Cunningham down the middle for 12 yard gain
3rd-8, MIST36 0:29 K. Cousins passed to K. Martin down the middle for 11 yard gain
1st-10, MIST47 0:29 K. Cousins passed to L. Bell down the middle for 9 yard gain
2nd-1, WIS44 0:10 K. Cousins incomplete pass to the left
3rd-1, WIS44 0:04 K. Cousins passed to K. Nichol to the right for 44 yard touchdown

 

[Omega015]

ESPN has the play by play with timeouts:

1st and 10 at MSU 22 Kirk Cousins pass complete to Le'Veon Bell for 3 yards to the MchSt 25. 31 31
2nd and 7 at MSU 25 Kirk Cousins pass incomplete to Keith Nichol.
3rd and 7 at MSU 25 Kirk Cousins pass complete to Le'Veon Bell for 9 yards to the MchSt 34 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at MSU 34 Kirk Cousins sacked by Brendan Kelly for a loss of 10 yards, fumbled, forced by Brendan Kelly, recovered by MchSt Dan France at the MchSt 24.
2nd and 20 at MSU 24 Timeout WISCONSIN, clock 00:42.
2nd and 20 at MSU 24 Kirk Cousins pass complete to B.J. Cunningham for 12 yards to the MchSt 36.
3rd and 8 at MSU 36 Timeout WISCONSIN, clock 00:30.
3rd and 8 at MSU 36 Kirk Cousins pass complete to Keshawn Martin for 11 yards to the MchSt 47 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at MSU 47 Kirk Cousins pass complete to Le'Veon Bell for 9 yards to the Wisc 44.
2nd and 1 at WIS 44 Timeout MICHIGAN ST, clock 00:10.
2nd and 1 at WIS 44 Kirk Cousins pass incomplete to Brian Linthicum, broken up by Aaron Henry.
3rd and 1 at WIS 44 Timeout WISCONSIN, clock 00:04.
3rd and 1 at WIS 44 Kirk Cousins pass complete to Keith Nichol for 44 yards for a TOUCHDOWN. 31 37
End of 4th Quarter


I will assume everything after the :30 timeout goes against MSU. They throw an incomplete pass. I will say that play takes 5 seconds. Then on 4th and 8 they punt from their own 36 yard line. That play takes 7 seconds. That gives Wisconsin the ball with 1 timeout and 18 seconds left. I will assume they take over from their own 30 yard line if the punt nets 35 yards. That gives them time for two plays to go 40 yards and leave enough time on the clock for a 50 yard FG attempt or that same hail mary pass.

The problem is calling the second timeout left Michigan State with 30 seconds to do what Wisconsin would have had 18 seconds to attempt. Since the pass play began at :04, Wisky would have run out of time.

 

[Formo]

ESPN has the play by play with timeouts:

1st and 10 at MSU 22 Kirk Cousins pass complete to Le'Veon Bell for 3 yards to the MchSt 25. 31 31
2nd and 7 at MSU 25 Kirk Cousins pass incomplete to Keith Nichol.
3rd and 7 at MSU 25 Kirk Cousins pass complete to Le'Veon Bell for 9 yards to the MchSt 34 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at MSU 34 Kirk Cousins sacked by Brendan Kelly for a loss of 10 yards, fumbled, forced by Brendan Kelly, recovered by MchSt Dan France at the MchSt 24.
2nd and 20 at MSU 24 Timeout WISCONSIN, clock 00:42.
2nd and 20 at MSU 24 Kirk Cousins pass complete to B.J. Cunningham for 12 yards to the MchSt 36.
3rd and 8 at MSU 36 Timeout WISCONSIN, clock 00:30.
3rd and 8 at MSU 36 Kirk Cousins pass complete to Keshawn Martin for 11 yards to the MchSt 47 for a 1ST down.
1st and 10 at MSU 47 Kirk Cousins pass complete to Le'Veon Bell for 9 yards to the Wisc 44.
2nd and 1 at WIS 44 Timeout MICHIGAN ST, clock 00:10.
2nd and 1 at WIS 44 Kirk Cousins pass incomplete to Brian Linthicum, broken up by Aaron Henry.
3rd and 1 at WIS 44 Timeout WISCONSIN, clock 00:04.
3rd and 1 at WIS 44 Kirk Cousins pass complete to Keith Nichol for 44 yards for a TOUCHDOWN. 31 37
End of 4th Quarter


I will assume everything after the :30 timeout goes against MSU. They throw an incomplete pass. I will say that play takes 5 seconds. Then on 4th and 8 they punt from their own 36 yard line. That play takes 7 seconds. That gives Wisconsin the ball with 1 timeout and 18 seconds left. I will assume they take over from their own 30 yard line if the punt nets 35 yards. That gives them time for two plays to go 40 yards and leave enough time on the clock for a 50 yard FG attempt or that same hail mary pass.

The problem is calling the second timeout left Michigan State with 30 seconds to do what Wisconsin would have had 18 seconds to attempt. Since the pass play began at :04, Wisky would have run out of time.

Good info. But Bullima's reasoning kinda stands with the first TO. They were simply looking to a punt block and maybe something happen. If MSU gets the punt off, then Wisky concedes to overtime. I have no problem with that TO and I would have called it myself. But the last two with 10 and 4 seconds left, I couldn't believe. It was like they WANTED MSU to drive down the field.

 

[50PoundHead]

Bielema is aggressive and he plays for the win at all times. It bit him in the ass this time but in general I like the idea of a coach that plays to win and doesn't play not to lose. I think the guy is a complete jackass in general but I can respect his coaching style because clearly they are doing something right over there and it has hit the point where you can't attribute his and the teams success to having Alvarez's players.

Then again I can't help but wonder what they would look like this year if a stud QB had not just fallen into their lap.

I agree with you on "yes" he's a good coach and "yes" he is a chucklehead. I didn't see this portion of the game, so I can't comment on it firsthand. I just think guys like Vince Lombardi are rolling in their graves over the aggressiveness of modern day coaches at both the pro and college levels. You really can't force the game and if you do, you end up getting bit more often than if you don't. If you believe you have the better team, you go to overtime.

For Wisconsin to win the game in regulation would have been depending on the same level of fluke that won it for Michigan State.

 

[SonOfTheVarsity]

I don't get the Herm Edwardses in this thread ("you play to win the game"). Obviously you play to win, but that doesn't mean taking unnecessary risks to try to block a punt at the expense of giving an offense that has scored 30+ points more opportunities to move the ball downfield. I agree that the first timeout was a good call. But the one with 30 seconds left was an awful decision. There was no way that calling that timeout would have been more likely to result in a Wisconsin win than a Spartan win. So yes, play to win the game. Do it by giving your team the best opportunity to win. Putting your eggs in the blocked punt basket is not the best opportunity to win. It was a bad, bad timeout. And it cost Bielema (and delighted me).

 

[Monty519]

Good info. But Bullima's reasoning kinda stands with the first TO. They were simply looking to a punt block and maybe something happen. If MSU gets the punt off, then Wisky concedes to overtime. I have no problem with that TO and I would have called it myself. But the last two with 10 and 4 seconds left, I couldn't believe. It was like they WANTED MSU to drive down the field.

MSU took the one with 10 sec left. The last one with 4 sec. left was a matter of preparing for the Hail Mary, the clock was already stopped. He only took 2 timeouts, the 2nd coming with 30 seconds left and MSU on their own 36. I guess I just didn't think it was that egregious of a decision to take that 2nd one.

 

[Nokomis]

The last WI timeout with 4 seconds left was to make sure their players were in position for the Hail Mary and understood their assignments. The only questionable TO was the second one with :30 left. Dantonio & Bielema were playing chicken with the TO's. Whoever called it was left with a disadvantage. Bielema flinched first and Dantonio capitalized.

 

[GopherinFlorida]

I still don't disagree with the TO at 30 seconds left...and the one with 4 secs left was with the clock stopped anyways.

 

[LloydChristmas]

It made my year to see Bert Bulimia run off the field with a stunned cry face on, and then to see him emotional in the press conference.

I disagree with the BTN guys analysis who say they think Bulimia and coaches were not prepping the team for a National Championship. I think they were and Bulimia showed his colors.

If they were gunning for a B1G crown, they are still in the running and have nothing to cry about. Sure a letdown, but nothing an (over)grown coach should put the cry face on for.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I don't see how anyone questions the 1st TO.

There was 42 seconds, MSU had 2nd and 20 from the 24 yard line and you have a really good QB and the Big 10 leading punt returner. They easily could have been punting with 30 seconds left (and WI still having a TO). I really don't understand an argument against this TO.

The second one, well, I think this one is somewhat debateable. There is 30 seconds left, you still have 1 TO, if you get a stop, you definitely have a chance. I'd argue that you have a better chance of making points in that scenario than MSU did of getting points. It didn't work out that way and it was a gamble, but I don't think this was an inherently terrible decision.

Third TO...meaningless.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

For Wisconsin to win the game in regulation would have been depending on the same level of fluke that won it for Michigan State.

I don't agree with that. When it was 2nd and 20 from the 24 with 40 seconds left, WI could easily have been holding the ball (after an incompletion or run and TO) at the 50 yard line (assuming an average punt return) with 17-20 seconds and a TO.

 

[Unregistered User]

Let's get to the real meat of the matter...how do we get the student section to chant "Timeout Burt" each and every time they have the ball?

 

[Max Power]

The one with 4 seconds left was to make sure he got his right guys on the field. The clock was stopped anyway. The one on 3rd and 8 was the dumb one. The only dumb one.

 

[BigTenGuy]

I didn't mind the first timeout when Michigan State was at 2nd and 16 and looked miserable so far on the drive.

The poster is exactly right. The first timeout can be justified, but the second timeout, on 3rd and 8, with 29/30 seconds left, and an opposing kicker with 50+ yardage range was stupid. Especially because Wisconsin was the better team. Wisconsin should have welcomed overtime, which MSU would have given them but for the 2nd timeout.