Our 5 remaining games are all very winnable


So you just started watching football?

Let me teach:

Illinois has the best run defense in the nation

Michigan does well when they can run the ball (like against Penn St).

So you're basically saying you give no credence to anything Illinois has done on defense all year?
 

So you just started watching football?

Let me teach:

Illinois has the best run defense in the nation

Michigan does well when they can run the ball (like against Penn St).

So you're basically saying you give no credence to anything Illinois has done on defense all year?
Where did I say they have done nothing.
When did someone being called a non contender become such an insult?
 

There is the talent on this team. It looks like coaching from here. Fleck needs more out of his staff.
If defense can either (1) find a pass rush; (2) force some meaningful turnovers; or (3) figure out how to put someone, anyone, on a releasing TE, our defense improves meaningfully. Do two of those things and defense improves greatly.

Offense needs to try some new schemes. This year, we don’t have the WR speed/leaping ability/gumption to make our simplistic RPO work against good, aggressive defenses. The offense can keep beating its collective head against a wall, but a resourceful coaching group would find some schemes more conducive to the talent we’ve got. We can’t just run Mo. Players on offense need to play better, but the offensive coaches need to coach way better.
 
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Where did I say they have done nothing.
When did someone being called a non contender become such an insult?

What makes you think the concept of Illinois-Michigan being a one-score game is LOL-worthy?

Just cause they beat Penn State handily? Did you see Michigan against Maryland? You know Illinois is far better than Maryland, right?
 

What makes you think the concept of Illinois-Michigan being a one-score game is LOL-worthy?

Just cause they beat Penn State handily? Did you see Michigan against Maryland? You know Illinois is far better than Maryland, right?
Because you’re argument to me saying Illinois can’t beat the contenders is that you think they’ll lose to a contender
 


Because you’re argument to me saying Illinois can’t beat the contenders is that you think they’ll lose to a contender

Anybody playing Michigan within one score in November is a very quality team. Illinois likely finishes the year in the Top 15.
 

Anybody playing Michigan within one score in November is a very quality team. Illinois likely finishes the year in the Top 15.
I don’t agree with that but it’s not out of the question.

I think they’re closer to the conference average than the top of the conference in terms of how good they are.
You should feel free to disagree with me and not be offended that I don’t agree with you that Illinois is a “very quality” team.
 

There is no getting around the fact that the last 3 games have been rough. Injuries, poor play, and many other factors.....have wiped away the first 4 games and put everyone in a foul mood about the season. And that is totally understandable. After 4 weeks we looked like a team that could run away with the West, now we look like a team that is hanging on for dear life. The silver lining in all this is that our remaining 5 opponents all have some massive flaws as well.

Rutgers - Has looked very mediocre all year
@Nebraska - Very up and down team, very beatable team
Northwestern - Has just been flat out bad all year
Iowa - Defense is very good/great.....offense is a complete dumpster fire
@Wisconsin - Looked good today in beating Purdue but has been a mess for most of this season.

3-2 feels like a minimum record over this stretch with 4-1 or even 5-0 not out of the realm of possibility. Tough to feel confident about anything right now but in spite of the poor play recently, we have the talent to compete with all the teams left on the schedule.

I think with what we have seen so far that:

Rugers, NW are automatics. Sorry, but those teams are bad and we can win without throwing a single pass.
The other 3 are going to be tough. My guess is we get 1 of Iowa/Wisky and beat Nebraksa. That would leave us sitting at 8-4 and heading probably to the Music City bowl or something similar to face an SEC team.
I'm fine with it, but not excited.
 

I think with what we have seen so far that:

Rugers, NW are automatics. Sorry, but those teams are bad and we can win without throwing a single pass.
The other 3 are going to be tough. My guess is we get 1 of Iowa/Wisky and beat Nebraksa. That would leave us sitting at 8-4 and heading probably to the Music City bowl or something similar to face an SEC team.
I'm fine with it, but not excited.

If the Gophers followed your scenario (8-4, split with Iowa/Wisconsin and go to a decent bowl against an SEC team) I'd react same as you: I would be fine with it, I'd be enthused but I can't say I'd be thrilled.
I wanted a bike for Christmas, and I got one, and I'm happy with it, but it wasn't the cool bike I saw at the store. Still good, but not "WOW!"

I'd move up one 'excitement level' if they had the exact same results (8-4) except the wins include beating both Iowa and Wisconsin. It would be like last season, except we'd have both the Axe and the Pig. Not a bad season at all. The trophy case would look great.

The next step up from there... my 'excitement level' would actually be quite high if they won their last 5 B1G games. That would probably put them in a good bowl game, and winning that bowl game would give them 10 total wins. That's a very good season in my estimation.

Bottom line: this could still turn out to be a very good year for Gopher football, provided we can start playing at a higher level once again. I think we can do it.
 
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If defense can either (1) find a pass rush; (2) force some meaningful turnovers; or (3) figure out how to put someone, anyone, on a releasing TE, our defense improves meaningfully. Do two of those things and defense improves greatly.

Offense needs to try some new schemes. This year, we don’t have the WR speed/leaping ability/gumption to make our simplistic RPO work against good, aggressive defenses. The offense can keep beating its collective head against a wall, but a resourceful coaching group would find some schemes more conducive to the talent we’ve got. We can’t just run Mo. Players on offense need to play better, but the offensive coaches need to coach way better.

We were all loving the RPO just three short weeks ago.

Is it possible to install an entirely new offensive scheme mid-season? I have never coached, so I don't know, but it seems unlikely.

The execution has to get back to what it was early in the season. I am really concerned about our offensive line play, our QB play, and our receiver play.
 
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We were all loving the RPO just three short weeks ago.

Is it possible to install an entirely new offensive scheme mid-season? I have never coached, so I don't know, but it seems unlikely.

The execution has get back to what it was early in the season. I am really concerned about our offensive line play, our QB play, and our receiver play.
If you install a scheme that is completely rigid and incapable of change ... then you have failed as an OC and coach.

"Dang, I wish we knew how to run a play other than a zone run or quick slants. Bummer! Well, I guess we'll pack it in for the year on offense."

Sounds like Iowa.
 

If you install a scheme that is completely rigid and incapable of change ... then you have failed as an OC and coach.

"Dang, I wish we knew how to run a play other than a zone run or quick slants. Bummer! Well, I guess we'll pack it in for the year on offense."

Sounds like Iowa.

So you're saying they can install a new offensive scheme in the middle of the season?

I have to say: I don't think different plays or a different scheme would have changed the outcome in the Illinois or the Penn State game. Our offensive line got whipped, mano a mano. It wouldn't have mattered much which plays were called. They just beat us, straight up.

In the Purdue game, a different set of plays wouldn't have prevented missed chip shot field goals, or passes dropped in the end zones that resulted in drive-killing interceptions. Those things are more about players executing rather than coaches designing schemes and plays.
 

I don’t agree with that but it’s not out of the question.

I think they’re closer to the conference average than the top of the conference in terms of how good they are.
You should feel free to disagree with me and not be offended that I don’t agree with you that Illinois is a “very quality” team.

When they finish the regular season 10-2, you're gonna call them "conference average"?
 



If defense can either (1) find a pass rush; (2) force some meaningful turnovers; or (3) figure out how to put someone, anyone, on a releasing TE, our defense improves meaningfully. Do two of those things and defense improves greatly.

Offense needs to try some new schemes. This year, we don’t have the WR speed/leaping ability/gumption to make our simplistic RPO work against good, aggressive defenses. The offense can keep beating its collective head against a wall, but a resourceful coaching group would find some schemes more conducive to the talent we’ve got. We can’t just run Mo. Players on offense need to play better, but the offensive coaches need to coach way better.
I agree completely. There isn't a single receiver besides Spann-Ford that presents a mismatch in single coverage. For the Ciarocca scheme that we know to work, the team has to have the defense respect the threat of passing and if they don't exploit it over the middle. There is not a wideout that we have scene since CrAB went down that can catch contested balls and separate. I would argue that Brown-Stephens does get open a fair amount on longer routes, but man he is a mess. I don't think they can give up on him unfortunately.
 

We were all loving the RPO just three short weeks ago.

Is it possible to install an entirely new offensive scheme mid-season? I have never coached, so I don't know, but it seems unlikely.

The execution has to get back to what it was early in the season. I am really concerned about our offensive line play, our QB play, and our receiver play.
We don't run RPO exclusively. Can't add entire new scheme, obviously. I'm just an armchair second-guesser like most on GH, but I do know from some playing and from extensive "watching" that most good offenses try to counter-punch overly-aggressive defenses with plays designed to exploit momentary defensive weaknesses and openings. It is Football 101. We don't seem to have such counter-punches built into our offense.

We could add a few extremely common bells and whistles to our repertoire to make defenses think a little more before jumping ... and make them defend more of the field. We could run jet sweeps off of the motion we already run. We could pull OLmen to try to set up numbers advantages away from potential blitz alleys. We could run simple screen passes (other than our "tunnel" screen that everybody knows) and swing passes to RBs without changing much at all --except coach mentality. We could install a new play or two for our TEs, as they seem to be our competitive pass catchers this year. Just add a few simple things, that all could be run out of the shotgun, to attempt to punish constant blitzing (rather than concentrate only on how to block blitzes). We could answer the constant jumping around that defenses like to do during our slow snap counts--jumping around that means we have no real idea what the ultimate defensive set will be--by coming to the line and snapping the ball, before the defense is set, while it is still jumping around. Try to put "jumping bean" defenses at a disadvantage. It couldn't be much worse than how we attack those defenses now.

Like you, I am concerned about our OL play, especially the right side of the line. But, in blitz situations, it simply isn't the OL's fault if we have 6 blockers, the defense brings 7 or 8 rushers, and we run one of the three plays the defense's blitz was designed to stop or frustrate. We've got to have blitz answers that don't require the OL (and RB) to block more bodies than there are OLmen.

The real answer, of course, is that our coaches are far, far more aware of what might work to defeat constant blitzing than most GHs, esp. me, do. I am frustrated by the seeming simplicity and predictability of our offense (which I am beginning to think is a PJ thing more than an OC thing), simplicity that seems to doom us against very good defenses. Simplicity that makes it look as though, against good teams, we are playing not to lose rather than to win. We like to overpower on offense, when we can, and that is great when it works. Our blitz counterpunch seems to be to pass out of the RPO--which just isn't working with the crop of WRs we have this year, for whatever reason. But beyond our basic RPO package, we seem like we don't want to out think a very worthy opponent. There are no creative Plan Bs that I've noticed. I have seen so many creative college offenses. The models are there.

P.S. I acknowledge that this post, borne of frustration, might just be a bunch of BS dispensed by a very uninformed old man. Feel free to ignore it.
 

When they finish the regular season 10-2, you're gonna call them "conference average"?
I don’t think they’ll finish 10-2

Not all teams that finish 10-2 are equal.
Do you think all teams that finish 10-2 are equal?


In answer to your question, yes. I think a 10-2 Illinois team is closer in quality to the 7-8 team in the conference than the number one team in the conference. They have time to change my mind.
 

We don't run RPO exclusively. Can't add entire new scheme, obviously. I'm just an armchair second-guesser like most on GH, but I do know from some playing and from extensive "watching" that most good offenses try to counter-punch overly-aggressive defenses with plays designed to exploit momentary defensive weaknesses and openings. It is Football 101. We don't seem to have such counter-punches built into our offense.

We could add a few extremely common bells and whistles to our repertoire to make defenses think a little more before jumping ... and make them defend more of the field. We could run jet sweeps off of the motion we already run. We could pull OLmen to try to set up numbers advantages away from potential blitz alleys. We could run simple screen passes (other than our "tunnel" screen that everybody knows) and swing passes to RBs without changing much at all --except coach mentality. We could install a new play or two for our TEs, as they seem to be our competitive pass catchers this year. Just add a few simple things, that all could be run out of the shotgun, to attempt to punish constant blitzing (rather than concentrate only on how to block blitzes). We could answer the constant jumping around that defenses like to do during our slow snap counts--jumping around that means we have no real idea what the ultimate defensive set will be--by coming to the line and snapping the ball, before the defense is set, while it is still jumping around. Try to put "jumping bean" defenses at a disadvantage. It couldn't be much worse than how we attack those defenses now.

Like you, I am concerned about our OL play, especially the right side of the line. But, in blitz situations, it simply isn't the OL's fault if we have 6 blockers, the defense brings 7 or 8 rushers, and we run one of the three plays the defense's blitz was designed to stop or frustrate. We've got to have blitz answers that don't require the OL (and RB) to block more bodies than there are OLmen.

The real answer, of course, is that our coaches are far, far more aware of what might work to defeat constant blitzing than most GHs, esp. me, do. I am frustrated by the seeming simplicity and predictability of our offense (which I am beginning to think is a PJ thing more than an OC thing), simplicity that seems to doom us against very good defenses. Simplicity that makes it look as though, against good teams, we are playing not to lose rather than to win. We like to overpower on offense, when we can, and that is great when it works. Our blitz counterpunch seems to be to pass out of the RPO--which just isn't working with the crop of WRs we have this year, for whatever reason. But beyond our basic RPO package, we seem like we don't want to out think a very worthy opponent. There are no creative Plan Bs that I've noticed. I have seen so many creative college offenses. The models are there.

P.S. I acknowledge that this post, borne of frustration, might just be a bunch of BS dispensed by a very uninformed old man. Feel free to ignore it.
People on here have no idea what we run.
People on here think we run RPO 90% of the time.
We run RPO less than 30% of the time.
 

So you're saying they can install a new offensive scheme in the middle of the season?

I have to say: I don't think different plays or a different scheme would have changed the outcome in the Illinois or the Penn State game. Our offensive line got whipped, mano a mano. It wouldn't have mattered much which plays were called. They just beat us, straight up.

In the Purdue game, a different set of plays wouldn't have prevented missed chip shot field goals, or passes dropped in the end zones that resulted in drive-killing interceptions. Those things are more about players executing rather than coaches designing schemes and plays.
You're correct that you can't just up and install a wholly new scheme right in the middle. There's no time for such a thing, it takes at least a full spring plus fall camp. So your point is fine and good.

I'm saying that if your scheme only has a handful of plays in it, such that you just try execute them to exact perfection and out-talent the opposing defense ...... OK, that can work if you have the 2019 team. (Though Wisconsin didn't agree)

It can work against inferior opponents, like Michigan State this year

But it's clearly not working this year against any kind of defense with a pulse.


All I know is that if you keep trying to force what is not working, over and over again, that is failure.
 


People on here have no idea what we run.
People on here think we run RPO 90% of the time.
We run RPO less than 30% of the time.
RPO is just a combined play of zone run and quick slants. The QB decides what to do right after the ball is snapped.

Saying we don't run that actual combo-decision play call all the time, doesn't matter if we do run called zone runs or slant routes most of the time.
 

People on here have no idea what we run.
People on here think we run RPO 90% of the time.
We run RPO less than 30% of the time.
The bigger issue is people not understanding the difference between RPO and Read Option. Still people who think you have to have a mobile QB to run an RPO offense.
 

RPO is just a combined play of zone run and quick slants. The QB decides what to do right after the ball is snapped.

Saying we don't run that actual combo-decision play call all the time, doesn't matter if we do run called zone runs or slant routes most of the time.
Inside zone is blocked differently than a called RPO. The o line goes downfield to block linebackers off the LOS
KC literally speaks at coaching clinics and talks about how little he runs RPO compared to what people think.

You can feel free to think they’re the same, but that doesn’t make it true.
 

The bigger issue is people not understanding the difference between RPO and Read Option. Still people who think you have to have a mobile QB to run an RPO offense.
I don’t know if that’s a bigger issue but it is an entirely different issue.

I have no problem with people saying we need a more mobile QB so we run read option.
I do have a problem saying Morgan doesn’t run RPO well enough because he can’t run.
 

Inside zone is blocked differently than a called RPO. The o line goes downfield to block linebackers off the LOS
KC literally speaks at coaching clinics and talks about how little he runs RPO compared to what people think.

You can feel free to think they’re the same, but that doesn’t make it true.
I don't disagree with you that we don't run actual RPO all the time. I'm certain you're correct that that is not the actual play call, a good portion of the time.
 

I think zone run schemes overall are weak.

NFL does it so much because it's so easy to teach and learn, and there is so much talent across the board. So you can transition to a new team and run zone running plays the day you get there.
 

I think zone run schemes overall are weak.

NFL does it so much because it's so easy to teach and learn, and there is so much talent across the board. So you can transition to a new team and run zone running plays the day you get there.
I’m not a zone guy but I get zone.
Zone is contingent on two things:
1) you have running backs that know when to hit it.
2) nobody on the o line loses badly…even if a guy loses a little an RB can make you right when you are wrong (against Purdue the OL was losing badly somewhere in the middle…would have to talk to coaches to know if it was guards or center letting up all that run through)

I have less problem with our running game and more problems with our passing game. We are Iowa in the shotgun with a worse defense.
 

There is no getting around the fact that the last 3 games have been rough. Injuries, poor play, and many other factors.....have wiped away the first 4 games and put everyone in a foul mood about the season. And that is totally understandable. After 4 weeks we looked like a team that could run away with the West, now we look like a team that is hanging on for dear life. The silver lining in all this is that our remaining 5 opponents all have some massive flaws as well.

Rutgers - Has looked very mediocre all year
@Nebraska - Very up and down team, very beatable team
Northwestern - Has just been flat out bad all year
Iowa - Defense is very good/great.....offense is a complete dumpster fire
@Wisconsin - Looked good today in beating Purdue but has been a mess for most of this season.

3-2 feels like a minimum record over this stretch with 4-1 or even 5-0 not out of the realm of possibility. Tough to feel confident about anything right now but in spite of the poor play recently, we have the talent to compete with all the teams left on the schedule.
They all looked "winnable" before they were played.
 

I’m not a zone guy but I get zone.
Zone is contingent on two things:
1) you have running backs that know when to hit it.
2) nobody on the o line loses badly…even if a guy loses a little an RB can make you right when you are wrong (against Purdue the OL was losing badly somewhere in the middle…would have to talk to coaches to know if it was guards or center letting up all that run through)

I have less problem with our running game and more problems with our passing game. We are Iowa in the shotgun with a worse defense.

Ouch. That hurts.
 

I would say, how about more "true" play-action calls.

But then, our receivers can't get open ... so all that leads to is our QB getting smashed by their DL once they figure out it's not a run. :(
 

I don’t know if that’s a bigger issue but it is an entirely different issue.

I have no problem with people saying we need a more mobile QB so we run read option.
I do have a problem saying Morgan doesn’t run RPO well enough because he can’t run.
A mobile quarterback is also an advantage when pass protection breaks down, which has been frequent this month. Only one of AK's positive rushes Saturday was a designed play. The rest were improvisations after protection broke down.
 




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