Operation Varsity Blues Largest College cheating Scam Ever Prosecuted by DOJ

[Pompous Elitist]

Probably the most serious charges the people involved in this will face is tax evasion - this was a fake charity, and the people who paid into it and then deducted it on their taxes are (allegedly) guilty of tax fraud.

Yep, but I was thinking more along the lines of money laundering. It’s hard to believe the numbers- bribes of 500k -1.2M when many people can be turned for far less or some other quid pro quo to gain admission to a school (donation, favors, business collaboration, etc) but who knows?

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Well then you aren’t very smart considering the fbi has hundreds of active investigations.

You’re so right. Good point.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Beat cops do it multiple times a day.
FBI agents do it the same way.
The phone rings. They answer. They key in some information into a database. Somebody else gets flagged to make a few calls. Yep. They can do more than one at a time.

Do you guys work? No, one cannot generate more man hours out of thin air. Yes, you can have irons in the fire but one cannot work on them simultaneously or give quality work without man hours. This isn’t a difficult concept.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Do you think it is possible to investigate two things at the same time

By the government? Is that a joke? How in the world would anyone have any faith in the FBI from what we've seen in the last several years? Holy wowzers.

 

[hello-world]

.

 

[hello-world]

So when does the NCAA announce penalties against the U for this transgression?

Nobody had to bribe anyone to get admitted to Minnesota.

 

[Gold Rush]

By the government? Is that a joke? How in the world would anyone have any faith in the FBI from what we've seen in the last several years? Holy wowzers.

LOL - Thanks for the morning laugh. That whole agency has really looked bad the last few years. It has gone from being well respected to a complete joke!

 

[LakerFan]

Beat cops do it multiple times a day.
FBI agents do it the same way.
The phone rings. They answer. They key in some information into a database. Somebody else gets flagged to make a few calls. Yep. They can do more than one at a time.

And you would expect them to circular file frivolous "crimes" in order to not dilute resources the same way I would expect the FBI to do the same.

 

[tato2001]

No, I donÂ’t.

Hey, itÂ’s great they clapped these guys and if any of them go on to serve time it could be a deterrent for others but letÂ’s be real - there are probably more important issues that could be looked into. I mentioned one, and I recall things in the news like hotline tips regarding firearms and mental illness that werenÂ’t followed up on (due to lack of manpower/hours IÂ’d imagine) prior to the Florida high school mass shooting...could go on.

Anyone that has ever held a busy job will tell you that no, it isnÂ’t possible to be in two places at once.

The "they should spend their time on more important stuff!" argument is faulty logic that could be applied to literally everyone.

If your boss finds you cleaning up your desk does he yell at you to get back to work on more important things?

Not to mention the FBI has people that specifically work on human trafficking, kidnapping, serial kilers, and yes, FRAUD.

It is completely unsurprising that when they get wind of a nationwide multi-million dollar fraud case they will prosecute it to the full.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

The "they should spend their time on more important stuff!" argument is faulty logic that could be applied to literally everyone.

If your boss finds you cleaning up your desk does he yell at you to get back to work on more important things?

Not to mention the FBI has people that specifically work on human trafficking, kidnapping, serial kilers, and yes, FRAUD.

It is completely unsurprising that when they get wind of a nationwide multi-million dollar fraud case they will prosecute it to the full.

Absolutely. What the heck do you guys do for a living?

Ok, I think I see your point - you’re saying an investigator will put one investigation on the back burner/on delay in favor of another. Fine. Financial crimes require a lot of expertise, sleuthing and time. As I’ve said before there absolutely should have been prosecution here but one doesn’t need to look far to see other things where a much lighter approach was taken. Things that make you go hmm.

 

[PMWinSTP]

Right. I get Harvard and Yale. You get a degree there (assuming these kids could hack it) and it means something. But USC? You couldn't instead go to UC Riverside or UC San Diego? Is it that much nicer? And maybe giving the kid the 500 grand and teaching them how to invest would have been a lot smarter of an idea. You can nearly live off the interest of 500 grand...

Interesting question. USC admits about 40% more freshman than U of M, but it has about 5X the number of applicants, so its selection rate is a lot lower. On paper it looks pretty tough to get accepted because of the sheer number of applicants. USC average admission SAT is slightly higher than U of M (1400 v 1360) as is the ACT (32 v 28) but the average GPA is lower (3.73 v 3.82).

 

[Cruze]

Ok, I think I see your point - you’re saying an investigator will put one investigation on the back burner/on delay in favor of another. Fine. Financial crimes require a lot of expertise, sleuthing and time. As I’ve said before there absolutely should have been prosecution here but one doesn’t need to look far to see other things where a much lighter approach was taken. Things that make you go hmm.

Given the limited resources law enforcement agencies have to investigate and prosecute wrongdoing, one of the strategies they use to encourage voluntary compliance with the criminal laws is the prosecution of high profile people in way that will guarantee intensive and widespread coverage by the news media. "Perp walks" were invented to help increase media interest and exposure of crimes and criminal suspects. That is why Felicity Huffman was arrested early in the morning at her house with a gun pointed at her rather than at the courthouse. The FBI wasn't going to pass up that opportunity by allowing her to voluntarily turn herself in. This case was guaranteed to become Topic A in every news outlet in America. It was a slam dunk for the FBI. There was no way they weren't going to pursue it in the way they did no matter what else they have to investigate.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Given the limited resources law enforcement agencies have to investigate and prosecute wrongdoing, one of the strategies they use to encourage voluntary compliance with the criminal laws is the prosecution of high profile people in way that will guarantee intensive and widespread coverage by the news media. "Perp walks" were invented to help increase media interest and exposure of crimes and criminal suspects. That is why Felicity Huffman was arrested early in the morning at her house with a gun pointed at her rather than at the courthouse. The FBI wasn't going to pass up that opportunity by allowing her to voluntarily turn herself in. This case was guaranteed to become Topic A in every news outlet in America. It was a slam dunk for the FBI. There was no way they weren't going to pursue it in the way they did no matter what else they have to investigate.

To my surprise I totally agree with you. Some of this is PR and definitely should give pause to the less psychotic parents out there from pursuing similar strategies. The FBI’s non-partisan reputation, non-political reputation has taken a large public hit in recent years. The soak the rich angle is brilliant, actually. And, it’s easier politically than prosecuting donors and possible employers in the financial industry.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Harvard admits alumni donations/bribes give legacy applicants a boosted chance of admission. Alert the FBI?

https://www.npr.org/2018/11/04/6636...dvantage-and-not-just-at-schools-like-harvard

 

[tato2001]

Harvard admits alumni donations/bribes give legacy applicants a boosted chance of admission. Alert the FBI?

https://www.npr.org/2018/11/04/6636...dvantage-and-not-just-at-schools-like-harvard

No, don’t notify the FBI. While that may be unseemly, or unfair, it certainly doesn’t rise to the level of fraud. Not even close. Harvard is well within their rights to make giving a factor in admissions.

When I google fraud the two definitions that pop up are:


“wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.
"he was convicted of fraud””

...and

“a person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities.”

The second definition is so apropos that it looks like it could have been written with EXACTLY this case in mind. Basing admission decisions on donations doesn’t fit either definition. Not even remotely.

In fact, You could make an argument that it’s no different than admitting athletes or smart people: they are all admitted based on their perceived ability to benefit the university, in your example not through good sports teams or academic achievement, but through financial support.

In the criminal case at hand, there is no claimed financial support, and the academic and athletic accomplishments are straight up fake. Their admission was based on misrepresented potential benefit to the university. That’s precisely what makes it fraudulent.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

No, don’t notify the FBI. While that may be unseemly, or unfair, it certainly doesn’t rise to the level of fraud. Not even close. Harvard is well within their rights to make giving a factor in admissions.

When I google fraud the two definitions that pop up are:


“wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain.
"he was convicted of fraud””

...and

“a person or thing intended to deceive others, typically by unjustifiably claiming or being credited with accomplishments or qualities.”

The second definition is so apropos that it looks like it could have been written with EXACTLY this case in mind. Basing admission decisions on donations doesn’t fit either definition. Not even remotely.

In fact, You could make an argument that it’s no different than admitting athletes or smart people: they are all admitted based on their perceived ability to benefit the university, in your example not through good sports teams or academic achievement, but through financial support.

In the criminal case at hand, there is no claimed financial support, and the academic and athletic accomplishments are straight up fake. Their admission was based on misrepresented potential benefit to the university. That’s precisely what makes it fraudulent.

Legacy kids are admitted despite not being the best qualified, ie they take as spot that could have gone to a more deserving student. Isn’t that the source of the outrage? And, schools admit family donations and the implicit promise of future donations is at least a significant part of the reason for admitting these unqualified or less qualified kids. Isn’t it a bit fraudulent for someone to be admitted despite not being qualified for any reason other than donations to the general fund?

We have a coach that has a misleading and some would say outright fraudulent bio. Many people inflate or exaggerate their resumes or CV. Cheating, plagiarism can have very serious consequences and they should. Sure these things are dishonest, unseemly, and embarrassing when caught but the FBI isn’t knocking on their door.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

If the issue is strictly who is being admitted, who really cares? The only real issue I would take is if someone is being admitted and getting financial AID that could be going to someone else. That would be a major issue.

So someone's parents give a lot of money to Harvard or USC or wherever and they get admitted in front of someone more qualified. So...? At the end of the day, the student still has to make it through school, pass classes, earn their degree, etc.

At the end of the day, it's the school's image or reputation that would be tarnished if it were admitting massive numbers of unqualified students, and damaged even more so if they were GRADUATING large numbers of unqualified students. It's not REMOTELY in any school's interest to diminish the prestige of a degree from that particular institution. On the flip side, if a school is turning away more qualified students, again, the school is going to suffer from a reputation standpoint.

Admittedly, I haven't jumped into the details on this situation neck deep but unless I'm missing something (which could absolutely be true), this seems to be an odd exercise or use of resources.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

If the issue is strictly who is being admitted, who really cares? The only real issue I would take is if someone is being admitted and getting financial AID that could be going to someone else. That would be a major issue.

So someone's parents give a lot of money to Harvard or USC or wherever and they get admitted in front of someone more qualified. So...? At the end of the day, the student still has to make it through school, pass classes, earn their degree, etc.

At the end of the day, it's the school's image or reputation that would be tarnished if it were admitting massive numbers of unqualified students, and damaged even more so if they were GRADUATING large numbers of unqualified students. It's not REMOTELY in any school's interest to diminish the prestige of a degree from that particular institution. On the flip side, if a school is turning away more qualified students, again, the school is going to suffer from a reputation standpoint.

Admittedly, I haven't jumped into the details on this situation neck deep but unless I'm missing something (which could absolutely be true), this seems to be an odd exercise or use of resources.

Schools aren’t really measured by their output and educational ability to turn lead into gold, they’re measured by selectivity, certain technical schools, and alumni networks.

It can (and should be) argued that the value of a degree of many private schools isn’t matched by their outcomes or prospects after school vs somewhere like MN, WI, etc. This question was looked at in some depth years ago and there is some mild correlation with lifetime earnings, career achievement from the Ivies but not from the second tier private schools.

One could also argue most degrees are overrated “hoops to be jumped through”...but that’s a wormhole we may not be able to escape from. Based on the lack of reasoning/“thinking” skills exhibited by many college grads (and professors) it seems the educational system is failing at a core tenet and rubber stamping degrees. Once in the workforce the graduate must still perform...and outside of degrees opening doors prospects tend to even out over time.

 

[Mulligan]

If the issue is strictly who is being admitted, who really cares? The only real issue I would take is if someone is being admitted and getting financial AID that could be going to someone else. That would be a major issue.

So someone's parents give a lot of money to Harvard or USC or wherever and they get admitted in front of someone more qualified. So...? At the end of the day, the student still has to make it through school, pass classes, earn their degree, etc.

At the end of the day, it's the school's image or reputation that would be tarnished if it were admitting massive numbers of unqualified students, and damaged even more so if they were GRADUATING large numbers of unqualified students. It's not REMOTELY in any school's interest to diminish the prestige of a degree from that particular institution. On the flip side, if a school is turning away more qualified students, again, the school is going to suffer from a reputation standpoint.

Admittedly, I haven't jumped into the details on this situation neck deep but unless I'm missing something (which could absolutely be true), this seems to be an odd exercise or use of resources.

When coaches and college administrators take bribes, I think it's more than "business as usual." Pretty sure most businesses wouldn't have much sympathy if they found out an employee had taken money to avoid company policies. I've seen 8 coaches and one administrator accused of accepting cash.

 

[Deleted_User]

Do you guys work? No, one cannot generate more man hours out of thin air. Yes, you can have irons in the fire but one cannot work on them simultaneously or give quality work without man hours. This isn’t a difficult concept.

Simultaneously? Never said simultaneously. Did I not say "somebody else gets flagged to make a few call." Teamwork. You missed the whole tie in to team work. TEAM work. But, I have always respected your ability to... what is that word? ... read.

 

[Pompous Elitist]

Simultaneously? Never said simultaneously. Did I not say "somebody else gets flagged to make a few call." Teamwork. You missed the whole tie in to team work. TEAM work. But, I have always respected your ability to... what is that word? ... read.

It seems like a really dumb thing to argue about. You know full well what I mean.

 

[highwayman]

Schools aren’t really measured by their output and educational ability to turn lead into gold, they’re measured by selectivity, certain technical schools, and alumni networks.

It can (and should be) argued that the value of a degree of many private schools isn’t matched by their outcomes or prospects after school vs somewhere like MN, WI, etc. This question was looked at in some depth years ago and there is some mild correlation with lifetime earnings, career achievement from the Ivies but not from the second tier private schools.

One could also argue most degrees are overrated “hoops to be jumped through”...but that’s a wormhole we may not be able to escape from. Based on the lack of reasoning/“thinking” skills exhibited by many college grads (and professors) it seems the educational system is failing at a core tenet and rubber stamping degrees. Once in the workforce the graduate must still perform...and outside of degrees opening doors prospects tend to even out over time.

We don't agree a lot of times but you are dead on here.

The greatest threat to free thought has now seated itself in the university system. Hyperbole? Try to get a passing grade if you don't agree with a professor or TA. Lock-step or you are out. Politics is a circle, not a line. The far-right and far-left are identical.

That said, I am shocked at the inability for many grads in the workplace who cannot think for themselves. When told to "work something out," the usual response is "who do I ask?". They know pop culture and world news but rarely know what's going on in their own home town, let alone the US.

My son is a junior at Arizona. On New Year's Eve, he overheard a group of students yell "Happy 2019th birthday, USA !!!" His response was "my generation has no shot..."

 

[hello-world]

We don't agree a lot of times but you are dead on here.

The greatest threat to free thought has now seated itself in the university system. Hyperbole? Try to get a passing grade if you don't agree with a professor or TA. Lock-step or you are out. Politics is a circle, not a line. The far-right and far-left are identical.

That said, I am shocked at the inability for many grads in the workplace who cannot think for themselves. When told to "work something out," the usual response is "who do I ask?". They know pop culture and world news but rarely know what's going on in their own home town, let alone the US.

My son is a junior at Arizona. On New Year's Eve, he overheard a group of students yell "Happy 2019th birthday, USA !!!" His response was "my generation has no shot..."

I saw a 55 year old man get so drunk last night that he tried to exit a bar through the women's bathroom door and then vomited while being pushed out of the door by the bouncer.
I think we're doing alright.

 

[RememberMurray]

I saw a 55 year old man get so drunk last night that he tried to exit a bar through the women's bathroom door and then vomited while being pushed out of the door by the bouncer.
I think we're doing alright.

Alcoholism and addiction are seen in every generation.

It's really not the same as not knowing what 2019 means, is it?

 

[RememberMurray]

If the issue is strictly who is being admitted, who really cares? The only real issue I would take is if someone is being admitted and getting financial AID that could be going to someone else. That would be a major issue.

So someone's parents give a lot of money to Harvard or USC or wherever and they get admitted in front of someone more qualified. So...? At the end of the day, the student still has to make it through school, pass classes, earn their degree, etc.

At the end of the day, it's the school's image or reputation that would be tarnished if it were admitting massive numbers of unqualified students, and damaged even more so if they were GRADUATING large numbers of unqualified students. It's not REMOTELY in any school's interest to diminish the prestige of a degree from that particular institution. On the flip side, if a school is turning away more qualified students, again, the school is going to suffer from a reputation standpoint.

Admittedly, I haven't jumped into the details on this situation neck deep but unless I'm missing something (which could absolutely be true), this seems to be an odd exercise or use of resources.

I think you might be skipping over the possibility that A) applicants in question might not actually be qualified to attend a prestigious school (without cheating), and B) certain "students" may not be all that interested in actually doing any real course work — at least, not if they can skate by using other means.