Omaha World Herald; Brohm and Frost are the future of Big Ten West

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rockford said:
I kind of went through a similar progression regarding Fleck. I think it went something like:

1. Oh god
2. I hope this guy's not a buffoon
3. Hm, there may actually be some level of sincerity here
4. I hope he can coach
5. He knows how to sell ... in a very, very good way
6. What he's saying seems to be resonating
7. We may very well be onto something here
8. Hope he's here for a good, long time

JTG
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I like your list a lot. Mine was a little different...

1. Hey, that's the guy that built up Western Michigan, wow!
2. Is this a schtick?
3. Brewster?
4. Okay, not Brewster but will this schtick work here?
5. Where did our "culture" get us considering who just beat us?
6. Illinois? Fraud!
7. Well, he's decisive - you gotta give him that
8. I think I am seeing what he was going for
9. It isn't just schtick - there is an identity and a plan
10. Please stop saying how young we are
11. I'm sold, bring on 2019!
 

Spoofin said:
It means that it is silly to think otherwise. I get folks may not want it to be true, but it just is. Similar to how it would be silly to debate someone who says July is warmer than January. Not really debatable.


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I agree with your premise that July is warmer than January because I've seen convincing evidence.

I have not seen convincing evidence that the little bitty Purdue guy is more explosive than TJ. Did you present some, and I perhaps missed it? I'm not saying I disagree with you! I'm simply pointing out that I haven't seen any facts to back up your assertion.

If we're going to discuss, maybe a good starting point is to define our terms objectively, by some statistical measure we can agree upon. How do we define 'explosiveness' in this case?

Alternatively, we could use your method, which appears to be you giving your opinion and then simply declaring "case closed".
 
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RememberMurray said:
I agree with your premise that July is warmer than January because I've seen convincing evidence.

I have not see convincing evidence that the little bitty Purdue guy is more explosive than TJ. Did you present some, and I perhaps missed it? I'm not saying I disagree with you. I'm simply pointing out that I haven't seen any facts to back up your assertion.

If we're going to discuss, maybe a good starting point is to define our terms objectively, by some statistical measure we can agree upon. How do we define 'explosiveness' in this case?

Alternatively, we could use your method, which appears to be you giving your opinion and then simply declaring "case closed".
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Let's frame this a different way. You are the Coach and have 1 second to go 90 yards. Who would you rather have TJ or RM? I see this argument like trying to compare who is more explosive between Stephon Diggs and Tyreek Hill. Both are great players, both have big play capabilities, but if I had to have a big play I'd take Hill.

Edit: If I had to have a 15-20 yard play I'd take TJ. 50+ give me Moore. I think that makes Moore more explosive.
 
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gopherall said:
Let's frame this a different way. You are the Coach and have 1 second to go 90 yards. Who would you rather have TJ or RM? I see this argument like trying to compare who is more explosive between Stephon Diggs and Tyreek Hill. Both are great players, both have big play capabilities, but if I had to have a big play I'd take Hill.
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Interesting. Are you saying that RM is faster? And are you then drawing the conclusion that the faster player is always the more explosive player?

Are we talking about 40 yard dash times here? Or maybe 90 yard times, since in your scenario I am the coach and I "have 1 second to go 90 yards"? That's really fast, by the way. I assume it's one second left on the clock (time for one play) to go 90 yards.

Maybe what we're dealing with is a simple case of two different ways of viewing the world and of making judgements: one way is more subjective and relies on gut reactions and impressions, the other more analytical, objective and... well, maybe nerdy.

One is not really better than the other. In some cases one method may work better; in other instances the alternative.

Maybe I'm just overthinking it!
 

gopherall said:
Let's frame this a different way. You are the Coach and have 1 second to go 90 yards. Who would you rather have TJ or RM? I see this argument like trying to compare who is more explosive between Stephon Diggs and Tyreek Hill. Both are great players, both have big play capabilities, but if I had to have a big play I'd take Hill.

Edit: If I had to have a 15-20 yard play I'd take TJ. 50+ give me Moore. I think that makes Moore more explosive.
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To me, what you're saying in the bolded part is: "I would take Moore in a particular situation. Therefore he is more explosive".

You're re-stating your opinion that Moore is more explosive, but not really giving reasons why you think so. Is it because he has more 50+-yard plays to his credit? How many more 50+ yard plays does he have than TJ? I don't know the answer; just asking for some stats/ objective facts that make your premise convincing to an analytical idiot like me.
 
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TJ is a great receiver but I think of him as more of a technician than an “explosive” player. He’s quicker than he is fast IMO. Great season last year and probably similar to better this depending on how they distribute the ball.

Have to remember Rondale Moore put up really good numbers as a true freshman. Better than Christian Mccaffrey, perhaps the most “explosive” do it all RB/receiver/ KR I’ve personally seen in recent years at the college level when healthy. I don’t perceive Moore to be quite as good but he’s probably going to be a little quicker and stronger and even more destructive over the next few years unless injury rears it’s head.
 

Word said:
I still remember getting his autograph at a JC Penney when I was a kid. My vague memory is he was a really nice guy.
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You know who was not a nice guy? Jeff Siemon...Well, at least just this one time anyway.
I was a lad of about ten in the late 70s. My older sister took us to Valley Fair. We were waiting in line to go on some ride and he came up behind us. I recognized him right away as I had multiple Jeff Siemon football cards from that era (I could probably wallpaper an entire room with my Jeff Siemon commons). He was with his family and one of his kids were in one of those rickety strollers from that era. He tried to get through a turnstile with the stroller and had a hissy-fit and snapped at me for getting in the way. I was crushed.
From that day forward Scott Studwell was my favorite Vikings LB...at least until I had my own kids and piloted a stroller through crowds on hot, humid days at events that the wife thought would be fun.
Congrats to Scott Studwell. And my apologies to Jeff Siemon, I'll cut you some slack now as I have felt your pain.
 

Schnauzer said:
I like your list a lot. Mine was a little different...

1. Hey, that's the guy that built up Western Michigan, wow!
2. Is this a schtick?
3. Brewster?
4. Okay, not Brewster but will this schtick work here?
5. Where did our "culture" get us considering who just beat us?
6. Illinois? Fraud!
7. Well, he's decisive - you gotta give him that
8. I think I am seeing what he was going for
9. It isn't just schtick - there is an identity and a plan
10. Please stop saying how young we are
11. I'm sold, bring on 2019!
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This is a good topic. It would be interesting to see other GHers progression (Maybe it's own thread?) I'm going to work on mine if stupid work doesn't get in the way.
 

Back to the original topic. The NCAA will be investigating both programs in the near future. They can’t be doing what they have without breaking rules. Purdue will get its hands slapped but nothing will happen to Nebraska. And yes, you could bet the farm on that.
 




haefs11 said:
Rondale Moore's average touchdown length (as a true freshman): 30 yards

Tyler Johnson's average touchdown length: 13 yards

Is Tyler Johnson a better receiver? Yes. Is Rondale Moore a more explosive player? Yes, and it isn't close.

It's okay that other teams have good players too, it's pretty laughable to not accept those things.
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Your argument makes no sense. Once you’re in the end zone, there’s nowhere left to go. For all we know, Moore’s Tds were all him being shoved out as he crossed the goal line by the pylon after catch the ball at the 5. Explosive is always defined by average per all catches.
 

I don't know exactly what the stats say about big plays, but the ultimate measure of explosiveness is plays that end with a TD, and Johnson is Moore's equal in that respect. The opposite of a big play is getting stuffed, and Moore does that a lot more than Johnson.

I'd say that Moore is more implosive than explosive.
 




You’re right that he had more 15+ and 25+ yard completions last year and the writer of the article was perhaps projecting next year. But, again one was a true freshman. It’s reasonable to think Moore, just like Bateman (and Corey Davis) will improve their numbers significantly in their sophomore through senior seasons and perhaps have better talent but haven’t realized their potential on the field. I hate that word sometimes but I think it applies to both Moore and Bateman. Obviously time will tell if TJ is truly the most talented and explosive in 2019.
 

My eyeballs tell me that Bateman is more explosive per-catch than either Johnson or Moore.

My sensibility tells me that there isn't much room for improvement with Moore - he already caught just about as many passes as it's possible for one guy to catch in a season. Improvement for him has to come in the YPC and TD categories.

If I had to pick one of the three for my team next season, I would take a deep breath and pick Johnson. I think we're incredibly lucky to have two of the three on our squad.
 

Moore seems more like a Percy Harvin type in that he is also utilized as a rusher and looks like he had one go for 76 yards and another for 53.

It’s a fair argument to make (TJ is more explosive stats-wise) and perhaps some observers feel like Moore is more athletic or quick twitch which equates to explosive. Someone that can make something incredible happen every time he touches the ball.
 

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