Ohio St and Indiana Lose Two Basketball Scholarships

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Indiana and Ohio State will lose two men's basketball scholarships apiece for not graduating enough players, the NCAA announced Wednesday with the release of its Academic Progress Rates.
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Purdue also loses a basketball scholarship.

Minnesota loses three football scholarships.

http://www.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=943457
 

Fodder for Jeopardy

This was the first (D-I) men's basketball program to be banned from postseason play for not meeting APR requirements. ...

What is Centenary?

I hope we don't schedule them next year.;)
 

The story with Ohio State -

Thad Matta saw this day coming.

Ever since the early departure of then-freshman Greg Oden back in 2007, the Ohio State men's basketball program has been walking a tight rope with the NCAA when it came to their Academic Progress Rate.

Ohio State coach Thad Matta signed no new players in 2009 as a precautionary measure.
The hammer finally fell Wednesday, as Matta and the Buckeyes were docked two scholarships for the upcoming 2009-10 basketball season thanks to a deficient APR of 911 for the last four academic years.

Because Oden withdrew from classes after the deadline, he was deemed an "0-for-2" player, meaning he did not successfully complete an academic term or return for the next one. As a result, Ohio State was expected to lose one scholarship a year ago when their APR fell to 909, but the NCAA granted a stay of execution based on an academic improvement plan submitted by the university.

While the OSU basketball team did improve its APR score by two points in the past year, it apparently was not enough progress to receive a second stay of execution, as teams must have an APR of 925 to avoid penalties.

A big reason the Buckeyes could not dodge the axe a second time was the presence of yet another "0-for-2" player in Kosta Koufos. Like Oden, Koufos left OSU after his freshman season and he too withdrew from classes after the deadline (the 15th day of spring quarter).

The penalties leave Ohio State with just 11 scholarships for next season, something Matta has seen as a real possibility for some time. With the departure of B.J. Mullens, the Buckeyes are set to return 11 scholarship players from last year's team and Matta elected not to sign any newcomers in the class of 2009 as a precautionary measure.

The decision by Mullens to leave after his freshman season should not have any lingering affects on the program down the road, assuming he left in good academic standing following winter quarter. The same cannot be said for Anthony Crater, who left Ohio State just 10 games into last season (after the deadline to withdraw from classes).

The men's basketball team was the only sport at Ohio State to suffer penalties as a result of the new APR. Coach Jim Tressel and the football program finished with a multi-year APR of 968 – up from 942 a year ago – which qualifies for the 80th to 90th percentile of programs. Other notable sports were the women's basketball program at 993 and the baseball team at 987. Men's tennis and women's cross country came in at a perfect 1,000, and all four sports were recognized by the NCAA last month.

Other teams in the Big Ten to be hit by penalties on the basketball court were Purdue and Indiana. The Boilermakers will lose one scholarship for the upcoming season while the Hoosiers lost two scholarships, both of which were applied to last season. The Minnesota football program was docked three scholarships thanks in big part to the 12 players who left the program during the coaching change.
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Question ??

So am I understanding this right? If some of these kids would have just finished one more semester or quarter, the school would have been better off ?
 

"If some of these kids would have just finished one more semester or quarter, the school would have been better off?"

Not entirely certain, but that sounds right. That's why it's important for kids that leave school early to finish school in good standing. For example, I give a lot of credit to the Florida kids (Noah, Horford, Brewer) that left early. If media reports were correct, those kids promised Billy D they would finish the year so that Florida wouldn't get an 0-for-2. Before bolting to the NBA, they finished the semester in good standing (read: academically eligible for the next semester) for the betterment of the program. They could have just quit school like Oden did. Oden (and apparently some others) certainly didn't do OSU any favors in terms of the APR.

That's my interpretation, anyways.
 



The Big Ten does not look very good here.

Basketball: Two of the three major conference schools to lose as many as 2 scholarships are from the Big Ten.

Football: One of the two major conference schools to lose as many as 3 scholarships are from the Big Ten.
 

Mikie S said:
The Big Ten does not look very good here.

Basketball: Two of the three major conference schools to lose as many as 2 scholarships are from the Big Ten.

Football: One of the two major conference schools to lose as many as 3 scholarships are from the Big Ten.
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There is a common demoninator between Minnesota football and Purdue basketball - a coaching change that forced the new coach to put together a makeshift first recruiting class. Painter basically lost his entire first recruiting class because he was forced to take at-risk players that had no idea what they were getting in to.

Korey Spates - not sure where he is now
Nate Minnoy - Central Michigan
Chris Lutz - Marshall
Dan Vandervieren - Colorado State

Throw in Scott Martin (Notre Dame) and Gordon Watt (some small school in Texas) and that's 6 players from his first couple classes. FWIW, Watt was dismissed from the team, but it still affects the APR.
 

MinnesotaBoiler99 said:
There is a common demoninator between Minnesota football and Purdue basketball - a coaching change that forced the new coach to put together a makeshift first recruiting class. Painter basically lost his entire first recruiting class because he was forced to take at-risk players that had no idea what they were getting in to.

Korey Spates - not sure where he is now
Nate Minnoy - Central Michigan
Chris Lutz - Marshall
Dan Vandervieren - Colorado State

Throw in Scott Martin (Notre Dame) and Gordon Watt (some small school in Texas) and that's 6 players from his first couple classes. FWIW, Watt was dismissed from the team, but it still affects the APR.
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Biggest issue with the APR is the student athletes are not penalized. I am thinking the NCAA should review how they approve transfers. If you leave your school and go to another, and you cause that school to drop. You should be penalized as that student athlete.

Going Pro... I have no idea if you can correct that situation. Maybe make any athlete that leaves before X year with X grades pay back his tuition if he is drafted and paid X dollars.

I ultimately believe the NCAA and NBA created some of these problems. I am still under the belief these students are athletes first, students second. Both are important, but you don't see an oversight group penalizing schools for giving scholarships to kids that go off and start Facebook or Google and drop out of college.
 



anticallihan said:
Biggest issue with the APR is the student athletes are not penalized. I am thinking the NCAA should review how they approve transfers. If you leave your school and go to another, and you cause that school to drop. You should be penalized as that student athlete.
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That wouldn't work though b/c ANY transfer, regardless of reason, hurts the school (at least that's how I've read the NCAA's rules). Even if you are in good academic standing your transfer hurts the school. These players are 1 for 2's. This is why coaching changes hurt APR...the normal wave of transfers following the change result in lower APR scores.
 

GoAUpher said:
That wouldn't work though b/c ANY transfer, regardless of reason, hurts the school (at least that's how I've read the NCAA's rules). Even if you are in good academic standing your transfer hurts the school. These players are 1 for 2's. This is why coaching changes hurt APR...the normal wave of transfers following the change result in lower APR scores.
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Maybe penalize the school that takes the transfer, or don't penalize schools for students that transfer in good academic standing.
 

Section201 said:
So am I understanding this right? If some of these kids would have just finished one more semester or quarter, the school would have been better off ?
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I really think they are sugar coating it. Oden, Koufos and now Mullens were all one and dones with no intention of getting any education what-so-ever. I strongly suspect they did just enough first term work to stay eligible and blew off classes after that. So I think these guys were not in good academic standing (I'm skeptical that they even saw the inside of a classroom second term) when they left, and would have been 0-2 even if they had withdrawn before the deadline (i.e. there wasn't any point).
 

Mikie S said:
I really think they are sugar coating it. Oden, Koufos and now Mullens were all one and dones with no intention of getting any education what-so-ever. I strongly suspect they did just enough first term work to stay eligible and blew off classes after that. So I think these guys were not in good academic standing (I'm skeptical that they even saw the inside of a classroom second term) when they left, and would have been 0-2 even if they had withdrawn before the deadline (i.e. there wasn't any point).
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you're simply wrong.

oden was a good student in high school. he even took calculus-level classes. his grade point average at ohio state was over 3.0. oden was deemed academically ineligible not because of his schoolwork but instead because he withdrew after ohio state's deadline to withdraw without taking an incomplete. furthermore, if you've ever listened to oden, you would know that he is a smart, well-spoken, and mature guy.

koufos was raised by parents with graduate degrees. heck, his mother was his high school guidance counselor, while his father (who passed away) was a medical doctor and college professor. he also performed well in the classroom but was deemed academically ineligible because he withdrew too late.

also consider conley and cook, who left a couple years ago. in spite of withdrawing from classes (before the deadline), they returned to ohio state to take classes the following summer. of course, the ncaa doesn't consider this and docks the program a point apiece because both left before the spring deadline.

though mullens was not a student-first guy, he actually did like college a lot. he achieved a 3.2 gpa his first quarter and a 3.5 his second. i can't fault mullens too much anyway. this is a kid who lived in shelters during his childhood. he had a very rough upbringing.
 



SelectionSunday said:
"If some of these kids would have just finished one more semester or quarter, the school would have been better off?"

Not entirely certain, but that sounds right. That's why it's important for kids that leave school early to finish school in good standing. For example, I give a lot of credit to the Florida kids (Noah, Horford, Brewer) that left early. If media reports were correct, those kids promised Billy D they would finish the year so that Florida wouldn't get an 0-for-2. Before bolting to the NBA, they finished the semester in good standing (read: academically eligible for the next semester) for the betterment of the program. They could have just quit school like Oden did. Oden (and apparently some others) certainly didn't do OSU any favors in terms of the APR.
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based on gpa alone, oden, koufos, conley, cook, and mullens were academically eligible. according the ncaa, however, oden and koufos weren't considered academically eligible because they ultimately decided to depart too late. understand that ohio state is disadvantaged because they're on a quarters system, while florida and most other schools are on semesters. with the awkward timing of the nba withdrawal date and ohio state's withdrawal date (after which an incomplete is taken), it is easy for the departing players to be considered academic ineligible... while actually being academically eligible based on their academic standing (read: gpa). ohio state is going to semesters in a few years, so the change should help.
 

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