Officiating

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Word said:
It would just be nice to see consistency during the game, and during the season. I think that's the most frustrating part. Clearly in yesterday's game, the mistakes by the referees went in Wisconsin's favor. Referees are human - they get influenced by team reputation and home crowds.
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You think that. tOSU likely thinks they get bad calls to knock them down. Both feelings probably show consistency.

A foul you don't think is a foul, a spot where the guy is coming back to the ball and is not down until his knee is down, and a TV's in home play clock are your complaints. That us reaching.

Officials miss calls and will be the first to admit it. It's the human part of the game.
 

Watch Wilson on the Clement TD run. One of their O-lineman has their arm around his neck. It was a very nice "block" at the point of attack.

With that said, the refs are not why we lost. Sure there could have been a few calls that could have gone our way. But we still had plenty of opportunities to win this game. That long pass in the first half was a huge momentum shift.

One thing about the play clock: you'd think with the technology of today you'd have a ref with some kind of ear piece that dings when the play clock gets to 0. Then they can just be watching the snap, and if they hear the ding before the snap, then it is a delay of game.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Watch Wilson on the Clement TD run. One of their O-lineman has their arm around his neck. It was a very nice "block" at the point of attack.

With that said, the refs are not why we lost. Sure there could have been a few calls that could have gone our way. But we still had plenty of opportunities to win this game. That long pass in the first half was a huge momentum shift.

One thing about the play clock: you'd think with the technology of today you'd have a ref with some kind of ear piece that dings when the play clock gets to 0. Then they can just be watching the snap, and if they hear the ding before the snap, then it is a delay of game.
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Too easy? Kind of like using the various TV feeds for replay reviews; sometimes they don't have all the feeds (or so they say) and it makes you wonder HOW or WHY.
 

Watch this video on holding. It is narrated by Mike Perreira, the NFL officiating honcho. I'm not really a fan of Perriera, who was based out of Las Vegas for awhile after he retired from the NFL. I mean, seriously...nah, couldn't be.

Anyway, he delineates in detail each of the various offensive holds with video.

Then, and this is the important part, for fun, watch any NFL game or especially any Wisconsin Badger game and watch the holds on nearly every play. It's hard to understand how the refs are taught one thing and practice something completely different, except at random, albeit oftentimes important game junctures. There is a reason these RBs can turn the corner with such ease, and it's not necessarily speed. All I ask for is consistency in rule enforcement.. We are not getting that as fans and that is the frustrating part.

Resident refs, what say you?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/WLqib4RRd-E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 

Stan The Caddy said:
SMH...Sometimes I really wonder what game people on here actually watched. Tommy was blocking his man, he did not "fall to the ground" and "bump the guys facemask." Seriously? Go watch it again. His initial contact with his right hand was on the Wisconsin players facemask. Cripes, quit making me defend Big Ten Officials.
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That's not what I saw. It was a bad call.
 



justthefacts said:
Did you look at the pictures I posted on Page 3? He has a hand full of facemask.
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I don't think it's that clear that he made contact with the facemask, but it's a closer question than I thought.
 

Dude the officiating sucked, but in the end their inconsistent QB had a good game and ours had a bad game. QB matters a ton, and it is our weakest position. That is the only take-away from the Sconnie game that I have.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Watch this video on holding. It is narrated by Mike Perreira, the NFL officiating honcho. I'm not really a fan of Perriera, who was based out of Las Vegas for awhile after he retired from the NFL. I mean, seriously...nah, couldn't be.

Anyway, he delineates in detail each of the various offensive holds with video.

Then, and this is the important part, for fun, watch any NFL game or especially any Wisconsin Badger game and watch the holds on nearly every play. It's hard to understand how the refs are taught one thing and practice something completely different, except at random, albeit oftentimes important game junctures. There is a reason these RBs can turn the corner with such ease, and it's not necessarily speed. All I ask for is consistency in rule enforcement.. We are not getting that as fans and that is the frustrating part.

Resident refs, what say you?

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/WLqib4RRd-E" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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The video is all great and good, but it is still a judgment call. Like they say there are holds on every play and it comes down to point of attack and did it affect the play?

Things to think about.
1. Was there a double team? Most double teams create the officials to pass on a potential hold as the player is being double teams.
2. Where is the defender going? Did he take himself in a direction/stunt and although held was going away from the play.
3. Tricky part is a hold can be very quick. It can be a quick hook and release and the official misses it.
4. Officials are told if they do not see the whole play, not to throw a penalty. Need to see the block from beginning to end. There are times where the offense and defense both engage each/other (chicken fighting) and judgment needs to be made. Remember defensive tackles many times are trying to engage OL to keep them off linebackers.

Lots to look at. Easier for Ref and new Center officials to call holding. Umpire has better looks at hands to the face and calls on the defense.
 



As soon as the referee crews were announced my Brother said we will get no calls

Rickman55 said:
Google the name Dave Witvoet, the referee for today's game. He has quite a history.
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Dave Witvoet, wasn't it his crew that completely hosed the Gophers against Purdue in 2001 and got the #7 WR touchdown play completely wrong in overtime.
 

I have fought against it but I am now convinced....we would be undefeated and headed for the National Championship but the refs are against us and have used every single possible opportunity to screw us over and keep us from winning. Any mistake or bad call was not human error but rather 100% intentional and meant to help out the other team because that is the only thing that makes sense.
 






This was a horrible call. Watch it in real time and you can see it was bad. I don't care what the pics show. Home cooking. This was a crucial turn of events in this game. Would have been up 21-3.
 



Ski U Master said:
Gopherholers don't like facts unless they support their particular vision of the "truth".
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This applies to most fans when it comes to the officials. Add parents in there as well when watching their kids play, most people just instantly assume that the refs are out to get them or their team. They will totally ignore calls that go in their teams favor and cry endlessly about any that didn't.
 

vagopher said:
That's not what I saw. It was a bad call.
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Going to guess that if it was a Badger OL against a Gopher DL and the same play happened you would've seen it quite differently.

Just a guess.
 

We can belly ache about officiating calls, but in the end the better team on Saturday won the game. Gophers are not good enough to overcome self inflicted wounds like passes in to the ground or grapsing a face mask when falling down,
mistakes and yes some bad officiating calls that involved human error. They missed one facemask call on us for sure.
The officials for the most part with the exception of the missed delay of game call really didn't impact outcome of the game. The fact that the Wisconsin quarterback could make passes, our defense wore down after selling out to stop the run all of the first half and playing like crazy and getting tired led to a lot of missed tackles in the second half. The fact that we completed five passes were limited to play calling by lack of options and a wounded knee quarterback with an MCL tear all effected the outcome of that game. In the end the officails didn't hose the Gophers enough to alter the outcome it was other mitigating factors that generated the outcome like getting a lost fumble that took potential points off the board, or having the wrong peronell grouping in the last series before the end of the half. Gophers played them tough, was first time I have seen fear in the Wisconsin players eyes playing the Gophers under the Kill staff.
I liked the fact that Leidner didn't force the ball and turn it over when he could trying to throw to Maxx Williams, there were times he could have forced it and likely got picked and he didn't do any of that force passes and get some potential turnovers.
 

On the Clement run alone there were egregious holds on Wilson, Cockran, Campbell, with a questionable hold on Bottecelli. I get there is a lot of holding during games at all levels, but how can 3 blatant holds not be called? I just re-watched that run specifically from multiple angles. Brutal.
 

The thing that sucks is a facemask can occur that is not a 15 yard penalty. Can hands touch the faceguard of a defender during a blocking situation and not result in a 15 yard penalty? A 10 yard penalty (called in Sunday's Vikings game ala NFL) is damaging but not nearly as bad, but would still hurt. Watching the contact at game speed, I thought it would have been better called as the old 5-yard facemask rule. It did not appear to me to be concussion causing smack, or intentional, 58/3 did not seem aware that the call was against him. But the hands were there, and the head moved though not in a pulling motion. This is a good rule to have multiple levels of enforcement. 5 or 10 yards in this case seemed more reasonable.
 

McGopherFan said:
The thing that sucks is a facemask can occur that is not a 15 yard penalty. Can hands touch the faceguard of a defender during a blocking situation and not result in a 15 yard penalty? A 10 yard penalty (called in Sunday's Vikings game ala NFL) is damaging but not nearly as bad, but would still hurt. Watching the contact at game speed, I thought it would have been better called as the old 5-yard facemask rule. It did not appear to me to be concussion causing smack, or intentional, 58/3 did not seem aware that the call was against him. But the hands were there, and the head moved though not in a pulling motion. This is a good rule to have multiple levels of enforcement. 5 or 10 yards in this case seemed more reasonable.
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It's like targeting and an ejection to get players to change their target. They don't want players putting hands on the face, so the NFL and College got rid of the 5 yd facemask call. Even with the old rule Tommy O's would fall under the 15 yd variety.

There are over 200 different rules between HS, College, and the NFL.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
You think that. tOSU likely thinks they get bad calls to knock them down. Both feelings probably show consistency.

A foul you don't think is a foul, a spot where the guy is coming back to the ball and is not down until his knee is down, and a TV's in home play clock are your complaints. That us reaching.

Officials miss calls and will be the first to admit it. It's the human part of the game.
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I ddn't say we _always_ have the calls go against us. I think we catch some breaks too, especially when playing the likes of Western Illinois, etc. Again - team reputation/home crowd. I just think in this particular game vs Wisconsin that the mistakes tended to go against us.

I do remember the Halloween game vs. Michigan St. a few years ago where we seemed to catch a few breaks. It goes both ways - just not in our favor last weekend.
 

Word said:
I ddn't say we _always_ have the calls go against us. I think we catch some breaks too, especially when playing the likes of Western Illinois, etc. Again - team reputation/home crowd. I just think in this particular game vs Wisconsin that the mistakes tended to go against us.

I do remember the Halloween game vs. Michigan St. a few years ago where we seemed to catch a few breaks. It goes both ways - just not in our favor last weekend.
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True. Just blows when we get the bad breaks!
 


SKOOKM said:
I guess you posted this to show that 58 did in fact get the facemask of the Wisconsin defender. One might also note that the Wisconsin defender also had his hands on Leidner's facemask.
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Uh oh, "justthefacts" isn't going to like it when we show how the Gophers got screwed even in his own pro-Wisky pics.
 

gopherdudepart2 said:
We can belly ache about officiating calls, but in the end the better team on Saturday won the game. Gophers are not good enough to overcome self inflicted wounds like passes in to the ground or grapsing a face mask when falling down,
mistakes and yes some bad officiating calls that involved human error. They missed one facemask call on us for sure.
The officials for the most part with the exception of the missed delay of game call really didn't impact outcome of the game. The fact that the Wisconsin quarterback could make passes, our defense wore down after selling out to stop the run all of the first half and playing like crazy and getting tired led to a lot of missed tackles in the second half. The fact that we completed five passes were limited to play calling by lack of options and a wounded knee quarterback with an MCL tear all effected the outcome of that game. In the end the officails didn't hose the Gophers enough to alter the outcome it was other mitigating factors that generated the outcome like getting a lost fumble that took potential points off the board, or having the wrong peronell grouping in the last series before the end of the half. Gophers played them tough, was first time I have seen fear in the Wisconsin players eyes playing the Gophers under the Kill staff.
I liked the fact that Leidner didn't force the ball and turn it over when he could trying to throw to Maxx Williams, there were times he could have forced it and likely got picked and he didn't do any of that force passes and get some potential turnovers.
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You really think that had the hands to the face call not been made on #58 that the Gophers wouldn't have scored a TD, gone up 21-3 with tons of momentum, and the game would have continued in a very different fashion thereafter?

A fellow fan pointed out that even if, by the rulebook, the hands to the face was to be called, that he same Wisconsin defender was grabbing Leidner by the facemask. At worst, given the evidence in those pics, that play should have been a redo instead of the huge penalty it was. Add on the missed delay call on the 70-yard pass just a few plays later, and the officials most definitely played a part in how the momentum all turned to Wisconsin.

You can argue that a great team would overcome those and win anyway. OK. But we all know that the Gophers aren't "great", and certainly not significantly better than Wisconsin by any measure; and even less so in Madison. So questionable or bad calls are amplified that much more when they go against an underdog away team.

Again, not saying that the Gophers didn't get any favorable calls or non-calls. But it's a tired and totally false argument to say that officials don't impact outcomes of games. They do. They always do; and we as sports fans just hope that their impact is such that they made all the right calls so that it was a totally fair game. Since they are human, we cannot expect that. Still, they DO very much affect game outcomes by way of human error, bias, or (hopefully) neither.
 


cncmin said:
You really think that had the hands to the face call not been made on #58 that the Gophers wouldn't have scored a TD, gone up 21-3 with tons of momentum, and the game would have continued in a very different fashion thereafter?

A fellow fan pointed out that even if, by the rulebook, the hands to the face was to be called, that he same Wisconsin defender was grabbing Leidner by the facemask. At worst, given the evidence in those pics, that play should have been a redo instead of the huge penalty it was. Add on the missed delay call on the 70-yard pass just a few plays later, and the officials most definitely played a part in how the momentum all turned to Wisconsin.

You can argue that a great team would overcome those and win anyway. OK. But we all know that the Gophers aren't "great", and certainly not significantly better than Wisconsin by any measure; and even less so in Madison. So questionable or bad calls are amplified that much more when they go against an underdog away team.

Again, not saying that the Gophers didn't get any favorable calls or non-calls. But it's a tired and totally false argument to say that officials don't impact outcomes of games. They do. They always do; and we as sports fans just hope that their impact is such that they made all the right calls so that it was a totally fair game. Since they are human, we cannot expect that. Still, they DO very much affect game outcomes by way of human error, bias, or (hopefully) neither.
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well stated
 

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