***OFFICIAL WESTERN MICHIGAN AT MINNESOTA SEASON OPENING IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

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skyman31 said:
There's also a VERY significant drop in college basketball experience after Battle/Cooper/Garcia. There were three freshman who were playing in their first ever collegiate game, and Thompson is a sophomore who really didn't play much last year. Off of a 1 game sample size, I'd be really hesitant to label those guys "low basketball
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bga1 said:
They are still missing a couple of key guys. The path of this team will be the opposite of last year. Last year you had all old guys who played as well in the first 2-3 weeks as they did all year. They ran the offense and played sound defense. This team has far and away more talent and should get better as the year goes on. The guard play concerns me.

Henley, Carrington and Payne need to grow up fast if we are going to do anything. Battle, Garcia and Cooper are going to be tough - they can shoot.

I feel like the top 8 by mid season are:

Cooper, Carrington, Battle, Garcia and Payne with Henley, Joseph and Thompson
Maybe Ramberg gets some time because of his incredible hustle
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The coaching staff is going to have to work with Payne on those fouls. We are going to need his strength come BIG play. I’m also worried that Thompson is going to be a slight liability come BIG Play. He had a tough time on defense tonight. Looked as if the game was moving to fast at times for him and that’s concerning given Western Michigan isn’t projected to do much in their own conference. Thompson’s butter fingers on rebounding was also a head scratcher. The coaching staff needs to drill it in him to box out and use both hands rebounding.
 

bga1 said:
They are still missing a couple of key guys. The path of this team will be the opposite of last year. Last year you had all old guys who played as well in the first 2-3 weeks as they did all year. They ran the offense and played sound defense. This team has far and away more talent and should get better as the year goes on. The guard play concerns me.

Henley, Carrington and Payne need to grow up fast if we are going to do anything. Battle, Garcia and Cooper are going to be tough - they can shoot.

I feel like the top 8 by mid season are:

Cooper, Carrington, Battle, Garcia and Payne with Henley, Joseph and Thompson
Maybe Ramberg gets some time because of his incredible hustle
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I don't think Ben will play 8 guys meaningful minutes. Love to be wrong because we won't be better next year playing 7 guys this year. And Ramberg can't be one of the 8 if we are thinking top half of the conference next year...can he?
To have any shot of being respectable this year, Carrington almost has to be the clear best fourth or better player. We got 3 guys otherwise?
 

Ugh, she was ugly.

I think the team will play much better down the road. We were playing without our best player and we have very little depth. We also are going to be dumping a ton of minutes into FR who will be better in 4 months.

All of that said, there were some concerning things. We didn't play hard on defense, we are forced to play Cooper 40 minutes.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
Ugh, she was ugly.

I think the team will play much better down the road. We were playing without our best player and we have very little depth. We also are going to be dumping a ton of minutes into FR who will be better in 4 months.

All of that said, there were some concerning things. We didn't play hard on defense, we are forced to play Cooper 40 minutes.
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It's surprising because Ben emphasized how hard, how tough, how gritty he wants us to be on defense...yet St Olaf and Western Michigan both out worked us.
I only saw the 20 minute cut up of the St Olaf game...but when people talk about young teams losing their poise in a game it recognizes they started playing with some or at some point they demonstrated it. It seems in 10 weeks we have established no baseline...no loose ball diving, deflection creating, in your face ball pressure defense. Nothing on defense and nothing on offense that says I see what you have been working on. Those aren't good signs.
I saw it last non conference season. Dunno
 


60's Guy said:
I don't think Ben will play 8 guys meaningful minutes. Love to be wrong because we won't be better next year playing 7 guys this year. And Ramberg can't be one of the 8 if we are thinking top half of the conference next year...can he?
To have any shot of being respectable this year, Carrington almost has to be the clear best fourth or better player. We got 3 guys otherwise?
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I agree with you, I hope he plays 8. Carrington has to be a good ball handler and #3 or 4 player for us to be solid. Cooper is going to need some rest and I just can't see Samuels handling the point in the Big Ten. If Cooper gets injured.... oh my.
 

60's Guy said:
It's surprising because Ben emphasized how hard, how tough, how gritty he wants us to be on defense...yet St Olaf and Western Michigan both out worked us.
I only saw the 20 minute cut up of the St Olaf game...but when people talk about young teams losing their poise in a game it recognizes they started playing with some or at some point they demonstrated it. It seems in 10 weeks we have established no baseline...no loose ball diving, deflection creating, in your face ball pressure defense. Nothing on defense and nothing on offense that says I see what you have been working on. Those aren't good signs.
I saw it last non conference season. Dunno
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Are we expecting to hold opponents under 50 points every game? Western Michigan had 52 points with like 28 seconds and left and made some miracle 3s to get to 60.
Broncos shot 24-69 (34.8%) from the field, 8-34 (23.5%) from 3.
Defense overall was not a major issue.

If you're looking for major issues from the game it was from the charity strip. 9-23 is just flat out unacceptable (3-9 from our guards Cooper and Samuels). That was the reason the score looks the way it does. Would've won by 10+ hitting an average rate from the line.

This team will look drastically different with the addition of preseason all-big ten player Battle, plus Carrington. Just need to be patient for now.
 

I was at the game, and honestly I’m not really discouraged. Playing a bunch of new guys without 2 of our best 4 players. There’s going to be some choppy waters breaking in the new guys to complement our two studs. Looking forward to having Garcia & Battle playing together. Man, they’re going to be a tandem.

Perimeter shooting from someone other than Battle & Garcia and PG (if Cooper ever gets hurt) are my biggest concerns after one viewing. Samuels not athletic, quick, or tall. Hard to envision him getting a lot of PT vs. Big Ten caliber talent. We need Carrington to be good.

1-0. … beat Saint Francis-NY!
 
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I honestly came away from that game with more positives than negatives.
  1. Dawson has the opportunity to be a star. He struggled with doubles early but figured it out later. He won't be getting doubled very often when Jmo is back.
  2. Ta'Lon was reckless at times and he needs to be more careful with the ball. But the story is the near triple double. He has an incredible ability to pass to guys in their spot.
  3. Our Freshmen are already comfortable playing the college game and just need to build experience. They will likely continue to get comfortable throughout the year. They all look like B1G players and just need that time to start to gel and slow down. Henley has incredible length and agility - he's going to be a great defensive player eventually. JOJ has great instinct and hustle with pretty solid skill around the basket. Pharrel is a beast already and just needs to build that experience to stay in games and dominate his opposition. These guys are still hesitant on the offensive end, which makes sense, especially when Jmo comes back. They'll need to pick their spots but Jmo, Dawson, and Ta'Lon should be taking the majority of our shots every game (in that order).
  4. Rebounding was a major problem in the first half that was cleaned up a bit in the second. Guys just need to come down with the ball. Positioning wasn't as bad as last year and box outs looked fine. Treyton was more aggressive rebounding in the St. Olaf game but reverted back to his Freshman game a bit. Pharrel needs to better use his body but you can see him trying to get there.
  5. FT shooting is the great equalizer. Combined with the lightly guarded 3 pointers (situation where we just had to avoid fouling), it made the score look closer than the game actually was. Average FT shooting would've quelled a lot of the concern. I'm not worried... yet.
  6. Samuel has had better days. I'm not expecting much out of him but he needs to be able to come in and give an adequate 5-10 minutes a game. Same with Ramberg - he had his hustle moments but was probably a minus player overall today.
  7. This team has so much potential when Jmo comes back. Major threats on the inside and out. A Cooper - Henley - Jmo - Dawson - Payne lineup could be a major problem for a lot of teams.
I'm excited for gopher basketball to be back! It's my favorite sport and it's fun to have a young, developing team who we can watch grow up.
 




SelectionSunday said:
I was at the game, and honestly I’m not really discouraged. Playing a bunch of new guys without 2 of our best 4 players. There’s going to be some choppy waters breaking in the new guys to complement our two studs. Looking forward to having Garcia & Battle playing together. Man, they’re going to be a tandem.

Perimeter shooting from someone other than Battle & Garcia and PG (if Cooper ever gets hurt) are my biggest concerns after one viewing. Samuels not athletic, quick, or tall. Hard to envision him getting a lot of PT vs. Big Ten caliber talent. We need Carrington to be good.

1-0. … beat Saint Francis-NY!
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I’m more discouraged than you. I thought they looked disorganized on both ends of the floor and relied very heavily on one one offense. Defensive effort seems to be lacking.

I’m pleased with Ola-Joseph. Over performing reports. Like Rambergs hustle. Payne has a lot of potential but has to stay out of foul trouble. Looks like zebras are emphasizing post players jostling for position. A lot of fouls battling for position that would be play on in previous seasons.
 

How much do we think chemistry played a role? Lot of guys getting extended run who likely won’t. Is Battle the vocal leader who gets guys in their spots? Does some extra floor balance with Carrington on the floor plus Battle open more in the lane? People drawing far too many conclusions off way too limited a sample size. Hopefully this experience gets the freshmen ready. We’re going to need them
 





Holy Man said:
I’m thinking Ben needed to be more aggressive recruiting portal guards last spring. I’m sure no one else on the board saw that need! 😂
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I know I got blasted for it a few months ago, but I can't fathom how we couldn't find someone who could play 5-10 minutes per game (like a Ramberg type) at the PG position. A good MIAC player could get significant run on the Gophers as a reserve.
 

Holy Man said:
I’m thinking Ben needed to be more aggressive recruiting portal guards last spring. I’m sure no one else on the board saw that need! 😂
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That's one I just can't figure out. He put the whole thing on Cooper and his ability to stay healthy. If we were in this situation and it was two other guards that got season ending injuries over the summer that would be another thing, but this is what he recruited. On the whole I am thrilled with Ben and how he has recruited- the guard situation is a head scratcher.
 

bga1 said:
That's one I just can't figure out. He put the whole thing on Cooper and his ability to stay healthy. If we were in this situation and it was two other guards that got season ending injuries over the summer that would be another thing, but this is what he recruited. On the whole I am thrilled with Ben and how he has recruited- the guard situation is a head scratcher.
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I think he felt confident with Henley and Carrington playing substantial minutes along with Ihnen and Battle being considered wings. Otherwise it would’ve made no sense. Now of course right now we have 3 of them injured so it definitely shows the need, but hopefully we can heal up quickly and it won’t be that bad for the rest of the year
 

I did not get to watch so I will just comment on the box score.

9-23 FT That simply cant happen at the D1 level. When you are an average at best team that matters. That is how you go from 17-15 to 12-20.

40 minutes for Cooper. That is a gigantic red flag for me in game 1. We don't have 1 guy who can spell him for even 4 minutes against West Mich? Carrington was out fine, but I dont think you can rely on a guy who has never really been a PG to suddenly as a freshman in the B1G to be one. Looks like a big miss for Ben in the portal.

On the other side. Assuming battle comes back, we could have one of the top trios in the conference. Battle/Garcia/Cooper are legit. I would like more depth but those 3 can all take over games and just will us to wins. Also with 3 legit options it lessens the burden on the other guys which helps.

Again didnt see the game but I wouldnt worry about Payne's fouling a ton yet. Ref's are notorious for opening the year super tight with the whistle, especially in non conference. You get in the meat grinder with Wisc you get to be a little more physical.

Just one game but 44% from 3 and all of our starters capable of hitting that will be big.
 


leib0039 said:
Again didnt see the game but I wouldnt worry about Payne's fouling a ton yet. Ref's are notorious for opening the year super tight with the whistle, especially in non conference. You get in the meat grinder with Wisc you get to be a little more physical.

Just one game but 44% from 3 and all of our starters capable of hitting that will be big.
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IIRC, Payne got called for two offensive fouls and one loose ball/rebounding foul. I'm not concerned at all about those. He'll learn what he can and can't do in Div 1 basketball within a few weeks.

I am very concerned with the foul shooting (team-wide, not just Payne). It's been covered multiple times in this thread, but 9/23 is worth repeating. That is just plain unacceptable. It wasn't only just missing free throws, but how they were missing them. There were some really bad misses in there that gave you zero confidence they can quickly turn it around. It is worth noting that Cooper is only a career 67.5% FT shooter, and will inevitably be on the floor at the end of games. Garcia was the only one that looked like he even knew what he was doing at the charity stripe. Obviously, missing Battle isn't going to help either, as he is a career 80% shooter. But I hope they get their act together, as that alone could end up costing this team numerous games this season.
 

Payne won't get those offensive fouls in the B10 because opponents will be just as physical. Looked like the refs were trying to protect the smaller, weaker opponent.
 


forever a gopher said:
IIRC, Payne got called for two offensive fouls and one loose ball/rebounding foul. I'm not concerned at all about those. He'll learn what he can and can't do in Div 1 basketball within a few weeks.

I am very concerned with the foul shooting (team-wide, not just Payne). It's been covered multiple times in this thread, but 9/23 is worth repeating. That is just plain unacceptable. It wasn't only just missing free throws, but how they were missing them. There were some really bad misses in there that gave you zero confidence they can quickly turn it around. It is worth noting that Cooper is only a career 67.5% FT shooter, and will inevitably be on the floor at the end of games. Garcia was the only one that looked like he even knew what he was doing at the charity stripe. Obviously, missing Battle isn't going to help either, as he is a career 80% shooter. But I hope they get their act together, as that alone could end up costing this team numerous games this season.
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Cooper missing the FTs worried me the most. That's who is going to be shooting them in crunch time. Most Big Ten games are going to be close if we are winning them and FTs will settle come of those.
 

last year's team was mostly guys with a lot of college experience. It may have been at lower levels, but experience is experience.

this year's team, especially without Battle, has very little experience.

in the long run, I like this year's team better. but in the short run, the lack of experience is going to show up in games.

just need to survive the early non-conference games and build up some experience before the conference schedule sets in.
 

bga1 said:
Cooper missing the FTs worried me the most. That's who is going to be shooting them in crunch time. Most Big Ten games are going to be close if we are winning them and FTs will settle come of those.
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not a good FT shooting team so far, only 58% against the Olafs. Cooper was 4-6 FT in that first game, so maybe this game at 2-5 a bit of an anomaly.
 

Spottedmuskie said:
We have a whole thread for these comments. This thread is for talking about our current undfeated season!!!
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I posted a couple of narrow victories by ranked teams over vastly inferior opponents to remind some Holers not to jump off the band wagon quite yet!
 

cheeseheadgophfan said:
Payne won't get those offensive fouls in the B10 because opponents will be just as physical. Looked like the refs were trying to protect the smaller, weaker opponent.
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You are correct to some extent. B1G refs also are known to not give newbies the benefit of the doubt so there may still be some WTF calls.
 

GopherBB12 said:
Anyone who knows basketball can’t lie to themselves and truly think this team will do anything this season. I don’t even think the NIT is possible. They lack shooting, defensive presence, basketball IQ, and rebounding. I do think Garcia and Battle will help with floor spacing. But it’s going to be tough to compete when you only have 2.5 legit Big Ten players on the roster (Garcia/Battle/Cooper). Cooper is solid but a bench guy on most Big Ten rosters.
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They have a ton of potential though, young, inexperienced for sure but they are going to improve. They have the athletes that can be good rebounders compared to last year. Defensively they are really just inexperienced. Henley is going to be good, I like his instincts and the way he moves. Ola Joseph is better than I expected. I'm hoping Carrington can provide some shooting, get Battle back and that perception goes away. Not going to blow anybody out but they can be competitive
 

I thought the score was a misprint! Then checking the game stats they were out scores by 8 in the 2nd half; had 16 turn overs; and made only 9 of 23 free throws. They did have 16 assist on 22 field goals; 43% fg; 44% 3 points.

All in all a disappointment.
 

A lot of the concerns can be explained by young players having never played together before and for freshmen never having played a college game. The free throws in particular are a concern. When was the last time the Gophers shot free throws above 70%?
 

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