***OFFICIAL PURDUE AT MINNESOTA IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

Donate To GopherHole
Fleckoff said:
First off LOL at your last sentence, you must think PJ Fleck is the dumbest man on the planet by that logic, but glad to see you think highly enough of yourself to think people care what you think, but honestly that's in one ear and out the other. Every coach does the culture in year one, you may not like it, but that's the truth.
Click to expand...

For coaches that sort of thing is expected; motivation, esprit de corps, and all of that. When fans do that, they just sound like vacuous parrots.

By the way, I don't think so highly of myself. I just think even less of you.
 

MNVCGUY said:
So it would appear that you would prefer they scrap playing for the win at all and focus on development by playing the young guys over the older guys.

For someone that harps on winning as much as you do I would think you would like the fact that Johnson is coaching to win by keeping his best players out there as opposed to punting on the game and playing young guys who aren't fully ready or haven't earned the playing time yet.

With this roster he could have just punted on the season, played the young guys heavy minutes and gotten blown out a lot. Instead he has chosen to play the vets over the young guys and go after wins over development.
Click to expand...
Not so fast, guy......

Winning is the priority. Your last sentence confirms much, contrary to your previous stance.

I am commenting on TT specifically, and his playing time, if you are paying attention. That's the focus of the discussion. This is due to the utterly ridiculous take that TT "wasn't ready", even after playing all 40 minutes in one game.

Winning isn't a one year proposition. I like to see wins pile up year after year. Having a team with little experience isn't a recipe for wins piling up. Looking out for next year and the year after that, guy.

CBJ did great in getting kids to transfer to MN to field a team for this season. And there have been some very nice moments for this team. Looking well coached most of the time.

It will take much higher impact transfer(s) to sniff the top of the conference and run through the ncaa. Thats the goal, even though you wont admit it.
 

swanyj said:
There is a fundamental problem here that some of you are all missing so I will continue to harp on this. Johnson is making the SAME mistake that Pitino did. He is not getting minutes for his TWO freshman. Yes just recently he has started to give minutes to TT, which is great, but still not giving minutes to Thiam. All of the other starters except Battle will be gone next year. Starting Daniels, who is gone, does no good. Even the debate with Curry, is how many minutes should go to TT. Also, Ogele....come on...same situation. Senior...gone. There were many guys that were just gassed in the game...announcers mentioned it. Johnson should have played Thiam 10-15 minutes to give them a breather so they could maintain their energy later in the game. Down nearly 20 at one point and he cant get him in for a few minutes? Thus guys were worn out fighting back to get down 7 and then ran out of gas. Johnson is doing some good things and that along with the SENIORS who have experience are able to execute due to that experience and thus we have been performing better than expected. BUT that is the key we need guys that have experience. Having TT and Thiam riding the pine does no good for next year. We need them to learn this year so there is a better future. Johnson sucks in this regard!
Click to expand...
Thiam is not going to play next year either. Ben is trying to compete and win games with what he has.
 

TT really changes how the gophers can be defended when he's in there, when he starts to mature physically and become a force defensively he's going to make it tough for apposing teams.
 



BarnBurner said:
Winning is the priority. Your last sentence confirms much, contrary to your previous stance.
It will take much higher impact transfer(s) to sniff the top of the conference and run through the ncaa. Thats the goal, even though you wont admit it.
Click to expand...
If only the coaches would bring you on to help them figure out how best to use their players....

I have no desire to waste time with another "conversation" with you so will just address the last point. I agree that the eventual goal is to make the NCAA tournament and compete for the Big Ten title, it just isn't the main goal in the first few years while Johnson remakes the roster and gets his systems in place.
 

MNVCGUY said:
If only the coaches would bring you on to help them figure out how best to use their players....

I have no desire to waste time with another "conversation" with you so will just address the last point. I agree that the eventual goal is to make the NCAA tournament and compete for the Big Ten title, it just isn't the main goal in the first few years while Johnson remakes the roster and gets his systems in place.
Click to expand...
Sensitive feller. Here I thought this was a message board.

Eventual? FEW years? Do you believe cbj told Coyle and the hiring team it would take more than a few years to install his systems and reac the ncaa? 😂😂😂😂😂

The roster is always being “remade”. Every year especially in today’s environment.

The main goal of every team is to win and make the dance. Ever heard of selection Sunday? Teams and fans on the edge of their seats? What is the draw? Why are those folks so disappointed if they are not included in the field?

BTW. Cbj systems are already installed.

Carry on with your multi year plan to install culture and reach the ncaa after a few years. Post culture install, of course.
 

BarnBurner said:
Playing time is also given a a result of illness/injury/roster/etc etc. As we have witnessed this season.

TT has EARNED playing time based on his GAME performance. If you cant see that.......
Click to expand...
And he's getting more time. What's your point?
 

swanyj said:
We have no idea if Thiam is good enough or not. And yes it is Johnsons call but there is no way that he should get zero minutes...that is where Johnson is screwing up...by not getting these guys out there. The game was too fast and is too fast for ALL freshman that come in. The only way to correct that is to get them on the floor and get experience. The experience earned this year by TT and Thiam, even if they are not ready to see the floor (per your opinion), will be all the more valuable next year. And as I have said all along, this year was just a get through year. Do your best, try to win, but more importantly get prepared for next year by playing the young guys at LEAST 10-15 minutes per game. Johnson is not doing that and he keeps putting out guys that will not be here next year. In addition, he is doing what Pitino did by playing the same players who are gassed when crunch time comes.
Click to expand...
Thiam is not going to play next year. We have two freshmen guards coming and probably two from the portal. They will all play ahead of Thiam's.
 



cjbfbp said:
Your latter point is a good one and worth remembering. This is Year 1 and what happens in Year 1 in the context of unusual circumstances is not necessarily reflective of a long-term strategy or method of operation. However, a counter-argument could be made that a year like this is the best time to experiment and sacrifice short-term gains for long-term development. I think inevitably that the substantial majority of coaches are going to field the lineup out that gives them the best chance to win (or at least compete) regardless of the circumstances and most of the leading players would want it that way too. Johnson also recruited at least five players for whom this year is the absolute last (there seems to be some uncertainty about a couple of others) so benching them in favor of untested and lower quality players would be a betrayal of sorts.

I'm not sure there is enough evidence to conclude definitively that Thiam can't play at this level. He certainly hasn't looked good so far but he's played in only 9 games and only broke the 4 minute mark in two of them (6 minutes against Corpus Christi and 7 against Purdue-Fort Wayne). He hasn't been given much chance to achieve a comfort level and to play through mistakes. Perhaps he can't play at this level and will choose to transfer downward but mentally I can't close the book on him yet.

I would avoid throwing around ambiguous terms (especially hackneyed ones) like "culture" too frequently. That's usually the hallmark of lazy thinking and an underdeveloped vocabulary.
Click to expand...
Culture is a real thing in sports. Nothing lazy about pointing it out.
 

Dakota2 said:
And he's getting more time. What's your point?
Click to expand...
One point is that the reason given for not playing TT was he wasn’t ready. GH told us so. So did coach. He didn’t get put on the floor until down 20-25 points. At home


He isn’t ready to be cockburn or edy. He does play offense well.
Then he plays 40 minutes of good bb. In one game.
He needs 30 lbs of muscle. And time on the floor.
 

BarnBurner said:
No, I dont mean all the battles. He does get some rebounds and has altered shots from the opponents. So your blanket for the defensive side is incorrect.

I dont think anyone is ignoring the D side of the ball. I have indicated as much above. Perhaps your insistence that he cant do anything D related clouds your posts.

Ah, so TT is the reason MN to abused on the boards vs OSU. Yet MN has been abused on the boards nearly all season, and you and I both know how much run TT had in games prior to covid and injuries. It seems you are all wet on that one.
Click to expand...
He wasn't ready early. He worked hard and is closer to ready now. As a result he is getting more time now where needed. You can see his trend and it's upward. His playing time will correspond.

Precisely because he has potential to be a good one, coaches are bringing him along at a pace he can handle.
 

BarnBurner said:
If Thiam isn't good enough to get 5 minutes a game this season, CBJ really missed on him. If not this season, when? After all, I have heard right here on GH recruiting is going to get better and better as the season go by.
Click to expand...
He didn't miss on him. He was filling out the roster.
 



BarnBurner said:
Sensitive feller. Here I thought this was a message board.

Eventual? FEW years? Do you believe cbj told Coyle and the hiring team it would take more than a few years to install his systems and reac the ncaa? 😂😂😂😂😂

The roster is always being “remade”. Every year especially in today’s environment.

The main goal of every team is to win and make the dance. Ever heard of selection Sunday? Teams and fans on the edge of their seats? What is the draw? Why are those folks so disappointed if they are not included in the field?

BTW. Cbj systems are already installed.

Carry on with your multi year plan to install culture and reach the ncaa after a few years. Post culture install, of course.
Click to expand...
A coach installs his culture on day one. From then on it's a continuous job to teach it and require it. There is no ending date where it runs by itself.
 

BarnBurner said:
One point is that the reason given for not playing TT was he wasn’t ready. GH told us so. So did coach. He didn’t get put on the floor until down 20-25 points. At home


He isn’t ready to be cockburn or edy. He does play offense well.
Then he plays 40 minutes of good bb. In one game.
He needs 30 lbs of muscle. And time on the floor.
Click to expand...
Has he averaged more time in the last ten games than the first ten?
 

Dakota2 said:
A coach installs his culture on day one. From then on it's a continuous job to teach it and require it. There is no ending date where it runs by itself.
Click to expand...
Exactly my point. Article in the strib indicates nothing changes after the 10-1 start.
Systems in place day one, not years.
 

Dakota2 said:
Has he averaged more time in the last ten games than the first ten?
Click to expand...
Yes, and he should have played more in the first 10. He didn’t magically learn to shoot and drive to the hoop in the last month or so.
 

cjbfbp said:
For coaches that sort of thing is expected; motivation, esprit de corps, and all of that. When fans do that, they just sound like vacuous parrots.

By the way, I don't think so highly of myself. I just think even less of you.
Click to expand...
So when fans talk about the program they shouldn't mention the words coaches use or the concepts they express? That's lazy?
 

BarnBurner said:
Exactly my point. Article in the strib indicates nothing changes after the 10-1 start.
Systems in place day one, not years.
Click to expand...
There's a piece in the Strib you read? Now I understand better.
 

BarnBurner said:
Yes, and he should have played more in the first 10. He didn’t magically learn to shoot and drive to the hoop in the last month or so.
Click to expand...
Undoubtably he also should have scored more than 4.3 ppg in prep school too. Or maybe he just wasn't ready. Truth is, these coaches have brought TT a long way in a short time.
 


Dakota2 said:
Undoubtably he also should have scored more than 4.3 ppg in prep school too. Or maybe he just wasn't ready. Truth is, these coaches have brought TT a long way in a short time.
Click to expand...
Long way short time. Shoul be playing more. Thanks for agreeing.
 


BarnBurner said:
Sensitive feller. Here I thought this was a message board.

Eventual? FEW years? Do you believe cbj told Coyle and the hiring team it would take more than a few years to install his systems and reac the ncaa? 😂😂😂😂😂

The roster is always being “remade”. Every year especially in today’s environment.

The main goal of every team is to win and make the dance. Ever heard of selection Sunday? Teams and fans on the edge of their seats? What is the draw? Why are those folks so disappointed if they are not included in the field?

BTW. Cbj systems are already installed.

Carry on with your multi year plan to install culture and reach the ncaa after a few years. Post culture install, of course.
Click to expand...
You say win now in this and other posts and then you want to play the youngins in other posts without regard to wins or losses. Are you just trying to get a rise out of people?
 


Dakota2 said:
Thiam is not going to play next year. We have two freshmen guards coming and probably two from the portal. They will all play ahead of Thiam's.
Click to expand...
Yep, with you on this one. If he can't find the floor this year on a roster this shallow, its unlikely he will find significant time. I don't get the weird obsession people have with backups and bench guys. Its not like the coaches dont see them in live reps in practice every week.
 

BarnBurner said:
Yes, and he should have played more in the first 10. He didn’t magically learn to shoot and drive to the hoop in the last month or so.
Click to expand...
Sports is more than just the basics. Players 'get it' at different rates. Star running backs in football sit because they can't block leaving their quarterback to get their clock cleaned. Basketball players sit when they miss defensive rotations that leave their teammates hanging out to dry. Happens all of the time with every team in the country. Oftentimes a light bulb finally comes on and the player ceases to be a liability and they blossom into a serviceable player.
 

BarnBurner said:
One point is that the reason given for not playing TT was he wasn’t ready. GH told us so. So did coach. He didn’t get put on the floor until down 20-25 points. At home


He isn’t ready to be cockburn or edy. He does play offense well.
Then he plays 40 minutes of good bb. In one game.
He needs 30 lbs of muscle. And time on the floor.
Click to expand...
Thompson played 40 minutes against Rutgers because they were down to 7 scholarship players. Daniels started too out of necessity and played 36 minutes. The team and Thompson were fortunate that they were playing Rutgers who does not have a stud in the post. Thompson held his own under pressure. Coach liked what he saw and Thompson is now getting more minutes in spot duty where he can continue to grow.
 

Dakota2 said:
If it's the Strib I don't read and nobody could learn. But thanks for saying Ben is my coach. I like the sound of that.
Click to expand...
Apparently you need to read to see what the coach said. Before spouting nonsense.
 

ecoperson said:
Thompson played 40 minutes against Rutgers because they were down to 7 scholarship players. Daniels started too out of necessity and played 36 minutes. The team and Thompson were fortunate that they were playing Rutgers who does not have a stud in the post. Thompson held his own under pressure. Coach liked what he saw and Thompson is now getting more minutes in spot duty where he can continue to grow.
Click to expand...
Ah yes, necessity.........the mother of........
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom