Official Post-game Thread: Badgers 20, Gophers 7

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The refs made calls we disagree with, as they always do. The refs did not cost us the game. We were beaten by a <cough> better team. We also showed we belonged on the field with what I believe to be a top 10 team. I was mad as hell, but I am getting darn right giddy because I now believe we deserve to be a top 25 team... and the Kill era has just begun.
 

vagopher said:
I thought the turning point came mid-way through the second quarter. We were up by 4 points and had the ball 2nd and 6 around Wisconsin's 30 yard line, when Epping was flagged for a false start. Epping was reacting to Borland who was trying to anticipate the count on a blitz. The announcers thought as did I that it was encroachment. Had the call gone against Wisconsin, we would have had the ball 2nd and 1 around the Wisconsin 25. Instead, we had it 2nd and more than ten to go, which forced us to pass instead of run, and we just couldn't execute. Had we been able to score at that point, I think we would have had a good chance to go to half-time with a lead, and momentum. Instead we lost the lead, and I thought we went into half-time somewhat deflated.
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Good points, but if you can't overcome a 5 yard penalty, you don't deserve to win.
 

As good as Wolitarsky and Jones might be as upperclassmen, I might think that the Coaching staff would scour the JUCO community for a playmaking WR. Fruechte struggles to catch the ball (this was noticeable even before today) and we missed Engel. I have no idea what JUCO player might be available, but it would be nice to get a kid who can hang on to the ball. Get a kid and Nelson will be just fine.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Look we can debate good call bad call but the implication that one false start penalty was the reason we lost is just stupid. The problem was not the call it was the part in bold above.

Has anyone noticed that the officiating in our last 4 games was awesome but today the refs were definitely favoring Wisconsin. Just like Iowa and Michigan they wanted us to lose but in the non-conf games and during the winning streak they were spot on with all their calls. Obviously I am exaggerating, but I can't stand the refs cost us the game comments.
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It's true, though, that it was the turning point in the game. Many games have one, and that was this one's. It's valid to speculate on where the game goes if there's no penalty there. That said, the Badgers outgained and outscored us fair and square.
 

Sid Hartman said:
So we are going to use the same excuse next week against Michigan State's defense?
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No. The excuse is blaming the coaches. The better team won today. If the Gophers execute today, do they have a shot to pull off the upset? Potentially but the Gophers needed to play flawless to win today and they didn't do that. That's why they lost not because of some imaginary flaw of the offensive coordinator.
 


Sparlimb said:
That or the coaching staff thinks Nelson gives us the best chance to win. I wouldn't agree with that...
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You honestly think Nelson doesn't give us the best chance to win? Did you watch the last four games prior to today?

He had a bad game. Our whole offense played poor for the majority of the game. When you run out true freshman at WR, a sophomore at QB, and generally pretty young guys everywhere else, against 8 senior starters on the opposing defense, these games happen.
 

tinyarch said:
As good as Wolitarsky and Jones might be as upperclassmen, I might think that the Coaching staff would scour the JUCO community for a playmaking WR. Fruechte struggles to catch the ball (this was noticeable even before today) and we missed Engel. I have no idea what JUCO player might be available, but it would be nice to get a kid who can hang on to the ball. Get a kid and Nelson will be just fine.
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I think the probability of a JUCO coming in and counting on them to be the playmaker we need on the O side of the ball, is less than the probability of Woli, Jones, Harbison, et al. filling the same role while working with the team for the rest of this season, extra bowl practices and all of next year until we kick off.
 

I thought about maybe putting Leidner in like some on this board, but I don't know how effective a guy would be coming off the bench in that cold weather, not to mention if you decide to put Nelson back in, he would be cold again as well.
 

nasa35 said:
Great take. I will say the wisconsin O-line could have been called for holding on almost every play and the by in large the refs looked the other way, WAY TOO much on obvious calls.
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I noticed this as well. There were some really obvious holding calls that got missed.
 



tinyarch said:
As good as Wolitarsky and Jones might be as upperclassmen, I might think that the Coaching staff would scour the JUCO community for a playmaking WR. Fruechte struggles to catch the ball (this was noticeable even before today) and we missed Engel. I have no idea what JUCO player might be available, but it would be nice to get a kid who can hang on to the ball. Get a kid and Nelson will be just fine.
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Hasn't this Fan base seen enough of "playmaker" JUCO WRs? PH, DP, HC, GH
 

beatles said:
That's pretty obvious. But I don't think execution was our only problem.
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The difference in the game today was Borland. He played a helluva game today. He'll look good in Vikings purple!

Although our offense didn't execute today, overall there is room for optimism going into next season. We've got Cobb and then Edwards in the backfield with Maxx, Woli, and Jones with more seasoning.
 

Some observations:

1. In order to win this game, we were going to need to win the turnover battle. We had 3, they had 1. If this was reversed, we win the game.
2. Receivers dropped way too many passes. Imo Nelson was solid and only had a few bad passes. The loss of Engel really hurt. Not having DCT or McDonald on the team is the reason the true freshman have to play so much, and they aren't quite ready yet.
3. The refs were abysmal. Were they secret Sconnies paid off by Alvarez? Absolutely atrocious how there was no consistency. The Gophers were called for marginal PI calls, but they let the same plays and worse go when we were on offense, most notably the Maxx Williams non-call. Plus their O-line held us all game long.
4. The run game seemed to be working ok in the first half, but was non-existent in the second.
 

MNVCGUY said:
Look we can debate good call bad call but the implication that one false start penalty was the reason we lost is just stupid. The problem was not the call it was the part in bold above.

Has anyone noticed that the officiating in our last 4 games was awesome but today the refs were definitely favoring Wisconsin. Just like Iowa and Michigan they wanted us to lose but in the non-conf games and during the winning streak they were spot on with all their calls. Obviously I am exaggerating, but I can't stand the refs cost us the game comments.
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Clearly, had we been able to execute better on offense - and not turned the ball over three times -, we would have been able to overcome a five yard penalty whether it was good call or a bad call, but we had little margin for error in this game, and momentum going into half-time would have, in my opinion, given us a better chance to pull off the upset. I think Wisconsin is a very good team, so having momentum at that point doesn't necessarily mean we would have won. It would have meant, in my opinion, that we would have had a better chance to win.
 



I just finished watching the game. The offense moved the ball well in the first half but shot themselves in the foot with the turnovers.

Our defense is the real deal and played great. I'm so proud of this team. 20-7 is nothing to be disappointed about in year 3. We will come back stronger and faster and more skilled offensively next year and give them a game in Madison to remember.
 

our dbs need to look for the ball... 14 points because of pass interference calls in the end zone..... this was our game to win.... we gave it away....
 


yup because the 2 yard line is right next to the 30.... they didn't take thoes 14 points.... we gave them thoes 14 points... again... we gave them the game...
 

This talk about Limegrover is goofy. The play book was effective in that it put the offense in position to make plays. That's what the OC is charged with doing. What happened then? Nelson consistently over threw or otherwise missed open receivers. He also failed to make decisions quickly enough. Receivers when he did only just miss them they didn't make a big play. Three fumbles is not a reflection on the coach.

Football, once the whistle blows, is about making plays. Wisconsin made a half dozen more than the Gophers. Wisconsin won the game.

The only issue I have with the coaching is that it was clear by half time but certainly the 7 minute mark of the 3rd period that Nelson was not performing well enough. I would have liked to have seen Leidner in. I think he's a better pure passer and clearly that was needed today. What I don't know was how he practiced this week in the cold.

Bottom line, however, Minnesota was in position to beat Wisconsin and but for a handful if plays would have. Just how far have we come in 12 months? A long, long way. I am really excited about Gopher football going forward.
 

Other than John Lennon complaining about Limegrover's play calling this is a pretty solid thread. :clap:
 

This picture was at the very top of the homepage on reddit.com

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beatles said:
Oh spare me. You guys are a bit too sensitive when it comes to Limegrover. He had no answer today that's all I'm saying. Nebraska played against a much better defense last week and put up 28 despite 5 turnovers. I'm sorry but when an offense gets shut out the offensive coordinator and his game plan can be questioned.
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If you would have just come out and questioned the game plan, there probably wouldn't have been the reaction you got. But you said the gameplan was the main problem and that is why virtually everyone disagrees with you.

The old saying goes coaches generally get too much credit when things are going well and get too much criticism when things aren't going well. We connect on a few more of those passes and don't turn the ball over, and all of a sudden we score a few more points and Limegrover isn't even mentioned. He didn't call a great game by any means (I certainly didn't like the 4th down play late), but he wasn't the main problem in my opinion.
 

As for the game:

- Been stated a bunch already, defense played awesome. Got good pressure on Stave and, other than the first White run, tackled pretty well.
- I was especially impressed with the tackling of the safeties. They are the last line of defense and there were several times White and Gordon looked like they could break a long one but they made sure it was only a 10-15 yarder instead of a 40+ run.
- I know they've shuffled in the d-lineman all year but this was a game I would have liked to see the starting front 4 in a little more.
- Offense just struggled. We were starting to have some good success late in the 1st/early 2nd I believe but just couldn't put a drive together. The turnovers were killers. We've been successful lately because we haven't turned the ball over and haven't committed penalties. To beat a good team like Wisconsin, we needed to continue that.
- Nelson was off, but the receivers didn't help either.
- The refs sucked. That missed PI on Jones in the 2nd half was atrocious. Everyone else in the stadium, including badger fans, saw it. Wasn't the difference in the game but it still sucked.
- Great atmosphere early on. Loved seeing the packed house. I really don't think there was a ton of Wisconsin fans there. It didn't look like there was much of any in the lower level and just the corners mainly in the upper levels. it was definitely less than 10K.
- Most of the Badger fans we were around were pretty level-headed most of the game. There was some trash talking going on but it was pretty much all in good fun until the game was pretty much decided with a few minutes left. As we were walking in the concourse, one guy was walking around to all the Gopher fans saying "loser" in their face. If it were someone young I wouldn't have been surprised, but this guy was probably in his mid to late 30's. One Gopher fan wasn't taking it and he got back in this guy's face. The security came and separated them. The badger fan blurts out "I wasn't the instigator" and acted so surprised this happened. A bunch of people called him out on this right away. I just get a kick out of fans who act like they won the game so they are winners and that we're losers. Dude, you didn't do a thing to help your team win. Have fun and enjoy the win, maybe even be a little cocky. You just don't have to act like a jerk while doing it too.

A win would have been nice, and I don't believe in moral victories, but I certainly don't think this was a "step back" game. We didn't take a step forward but we did hang with a very good football team.
 

John Galt said:
Some observations:

1. In order to win this game, we were going to need to win the turnover battle. We had 3, they had 1. If this was reversed, we win the game.
2. Receivers dropped way too many passes. Imo Nelson was solid and only had a few bad passes. The loss of Engel really hurt. Not having DCT or McDonald on the team is the reason the true freshman have to play so much, and they aren't quite ready yet.
3. The refs were abysmal. Were they secret Sconnies paid off by Alvarez? Absolutely atrocious how there was no consistency. The Gophers were called for marginal PI calls, but they let the same plays and worse go when we were on offense, most notably the Maxx Williams non-call. Plus their O-line held us all game long.
4. The run game seemed to be working ok in the first half, but was non-existent in the second.
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I agree with this except I wouldn't call nelson "solid". He didn't have a horrible game though as others have posted but he did have 2 HORRIBLE and 1-2 bad passes. How he missed Maxx so bad on that throw over the middle i'll never know. I wonder if the receivers dropping those first two 3rd down passes messed with his head a little? Maybe he thought he had to be more perfect than he actually needed to be... but the dropped balls killed us. The refs were horrible even with the "make-up" call we got towards the end of the game. They were raping our receivers.

Hats off to our DEFENSE. They played a phenomenal game. The two PI calls killed us. The second one especially because that was an easy interception if he just turned around, at the very least an easy play to break up without interfering. Basically both those PI calls happened because of crappy passes which makes it all the more frustrating. But holding them to 20 points (with the refs totally giving them atleast 1 of their touchdowns) was phenomenal especially when you consider the field position we gave wisconsin with our turnovers/punt coverage.

I'm looking forward to next weeks game. I think Mich st's offense has improved a ton from the beginning of the season but its no where near the badgers offense. If our D can get a turn over or 2 or get a score again like this week I think we have a real good chance. I like low scoring B1G defensive games.
 

The Gopher defense was outstanding today. Considering the offense gave them no help
again, the defense saved the game from being a blow out.

Nelson is exposed when he has to pass. He doesnt throw a good ball and he doesnt have
a strong arm. Must have a good running game, so he can dump to tight ends and backs.

We had end zone view day today. Receivers were open. Passes hung and were often off
target. Very, Very few passes were on the numbers. Gophers had a chance the first
quarter. Passes were in front of #82 and behind #4.
 

GophersInIowa said:
As for the game:

- Been stated a bunch already, defense played awesome. Got good pressure on Stave and, other than the first White run, tackled pretty well.
- I was especially impressed with the tackling of the safeties. They are the last line of defense and there were several times White and Gordon looked like they could break a long one but they made sure it was only a 10-15 yarder instead of a 40+ run.
- I know they've shuffled in the d-lineman all year but this was a game I would have liked to see the starting front 4 in a little more.
- Offense just struggled. We were starting to have some good success late in the 1st/early 2nd I believe but just couldn't put a drive together. The turnovers were killers. We've been successful lately because we haven't turned the ball over and haven't committed penalties. To beat a good team like Wisconsin, we needed to continue that.
- Nelson was off, but the receivers didn't help either.
- The refs sucked. That missed PI on Jones in the 2nd half was atrocious. Everyone else in the stadium, including badger fans, saw it. Wasn't the difference in the game but it still sucked.
- Great atmosphere early on. Loved seeing the packed house. I really don't think there was a ton of Wisconsin fans there. It didn't look like there was much of any in the lower level and just the corners mainly in the upper levels. it was definitely less than 10K.
- Most of the Badger fans we were around were pretty level-headed most of the game. There was some trash talking going on but it was pretty much all in good fun until the game was pretty much decided with a few minutes left. As we were walking in the concourse, one guy was walking around to all the Gopher fans saying "loser" in their face. If it were someone young I wouldn't have been surprised, but this guy was probably in his mid to late 30's. One Gopher fan wasn't taking it and he got back in this guy's face. The security came and separated them. The badger fan blurts out "I wasn't the instigator" and acted so surprised this happened. A bunch of people called him out on this right away. I just get a kick out of fans who act like they won the game so they are winners and that we're losers. Dude, you didn't do a thing to help your team win. Have fun and enjoy the win, maybe even be a little cocky. You just don't have to act like a jerk while doing it too.

A win would have been nice, and I don't believe in moral victories, but I certainly don't think this was a "step back" game. We didn't take a step forward but we did hang with a very good football team.
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the bolded is what I wanted to see from the game.. I went in hoping to see it competitive... and minus the refs it was... and like I stated I think wisc escaped today... put the ball on the ground to many times... we were in sect 109 the were a couple of badger fans around us... was fun to be behind the badger bench 5 rows up...
 


AEmerson40 said:
First of all, the whole team played hard for four quarters. Second of all, the better team won today. Third of all, the defense exceeded all expectations - hats off to the players and the defensive staff.

That being said, the three main reasons I think we lost: 1) Phillip Nelson played very badly. At times, horrendously. At some level, this was to be expected without Engel and in the cold weather, but he made some truly terrible decisions, which were not caused by either of those factors. Also, his fourth down "pass" to Maxx was so horrific, I think it scarred me for life. 2) There were, I believe, 5 fumbles in the game. We recovered none of them, and 3 of them were turnovers. 3) Not enough receiving talent. Disappointing, but it's just a fact.

Grades (you know, because I'm the ultimate judge of this team):
Running Offense: B-
Passing Offense: F
Running Defense: A-
Passing Defense: A-
Special Teams: B-
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Agree with much of what you said. Also, Nelson simply does not respond well to pressure. Nervous Nelly. Leidner may have other weaknesses, but he is a much cooler head when under fire....and that is a common thread with great QBs. Overall, the D was very impressive. With the O flat, they spent a lot of time on the field, often in bad field position. I honestly did not believe they could play that well against Wisky. Other than Cobb, the O skill players are still young and/or below the athleticism threshold required to compete at the highest level in the B1G. Jerry and boys need to get better offensive skill players (WRs especially) in this upcoming class while they coach up their young guys (like Jones, Woli, etc.) who show "next level" promise.
 

stuck_in_scony_go4_fan said:
our dbs need to look for the ball... 14 points because of pass interference calls in the end zone..... this was our game to win.... we gave it away....
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Honest question, I never played football. Can someone explain this to me, I've been meaning to ask about it for weeks. When I watch other college games, the DBs turn to face the ball. In our games, our DBs stay facing the receiver. Today it resulted in 2 critical PI calls on passes that weren't really catchable or could have been picked. Is this a difference in technique philosophy? For me, it looks like it causes us more trouble than its worth.
 

Torres9 said:
Honest question, I never played football. Can someone explain this to me, I've been meaning to ask about it for weeks. When I watch other college games, the DBs turn to face the ball. In our games, our DBs stay facing the receiver. Today it resulted in 2 critical PI calls on passes that weren't really catchable or could have been picked. Is this a difference in technique philosophy? For me, it looks like it causes us more trouble than its worth.
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I'm not a coach and wasn't much of a football player, but some of may be scheme/coaching and some of it is attributable to athleticism. Claeys usually plays the front seven (and sometimes a safety to make it eight) aggressively, which often leaves the defensive backs in man coverage.

I think the athleticism comes in on the closing speed issue. Witness the play by the Badgers' Shelton late in the game where he used his impressive closing speed to deflect a pass. I think he had coverage behind him on the play, but he really made a great play on the ball because he's very fast. If you watch the MSU cornerbacks, you'll see the same thing. They somehow always keep the receiver in front or beside them and then make a play on the ball. Our guys seem to want to blanket the receiver and then find the ball (often too late). I think Murray is making vast improvements in this department from the early part of the year, but the rest of the guys seem to have their backs to the passer when the ball is thrown.

But I'd need to know from someone who coaches if and how the scheme in the back four contributes. It's my guess (and it's only a guess) that the Ss aren't providing coverage over the top on a lot of these plays and it's putting the CBs in a tough position.
 

BrewsterBooster said:
Agree with much of what you said. Also, Nelson simply does not respond well to pressure. Nervous Nelly. Leidner may have other weaknesses, but he is a much cooler head when under fire....and that is a common thread with great QBs. Overall, the D was very impressive. With the O flat, they spent a lot of time on the field, often in bad field position. I honestly did not believe they could play that well against Wisky. Other than Cobb, the O skill players are still young and/or below the athleticism threshold required to compete at the highest level in the B1G. Jerry and boys need to get better offensive skill players (WRs especially) in this upcoming class while they coach up their young guys (like Jones, Woli, etc.) who show "next level" promise.
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What do you mean when you say next level - If you mean competent Big Ten receiver I agree with you. If you are trying to imply Jones and Wolitarsky have shown NFL level promise (which is typically what next level refers to when talking about college players) that is making a massive leap based on what we have seen out of those guys to date.
 

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