***OFFICIAL MINNESOTA VS PRINCETON ASHEVILLE CHAMPIONSHIP IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

MplsGopher

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but I wonder what Johnson could have done with some of Pitino’s teams.
So this guy Ben Johnson, and this other guy Thorson ..... I mean, they must be doing things, schematically, that no one has ever seen before?????

I have to assume, that Richard Pitino, son of the great Rick Pitino, could have easily figured all this stuff out, if it was just known stuff. Right???
 

BroncoRedux

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I was favorably impressed by the effort of the Gophers in this game. It's early in the season and my expectations aren't high but they are giving me optimism. They play as a team and there is a system within which they play. If fans want perfection this is not the team to follow. If they want heart and a honest effort then jump aboard.
 

jamiche

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So this guy Ben Johnson, and this other guy Thorson ..... I mean, they must be doing things, schematically, that no one has ever seen before?????

I have to assume, that Richard Pitino, son of the great Rick Pitino, could have easily figured all this stuff out, if it was just known stuff. Right???
Not difficult to figure this stuff out. Anonymous fans on an obscure message board understand the concepts. Great coaches figure out how to put the concepts into practice.
 

leib0039

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Troll only posted when things were going badly - disappeared when Gophers pulled away.
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO: Sure....

It was a good win, not taking anything away from the team, played hard and did what they needed to do, glad we got the W, I think it was a pretty big step to come out strong the first few games. Ton of credit to the team and Ben.

Just because I am unhappy with some portions doesnt mean I am a troll. But build your own narrative. I guess if we dont win a title in year 3 I will say you are an idiot who thought we would be the best team in the country. Seems to be about the same comparison
 

Gopherfan84

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So this guy Ben Johnson, and this other guy Thorson ..... I mean, they must be doing things, schematically, that no one has ever seen before?????

I have to assume, that Richard Pitino, son of the great Rick Pitino, could have easily figured all this stuff out, if it was just known stuff. Right???
In college basketball you only are allowed a certain amount of practice time. You have to choose your non negotiables and you have to be selective with your players. Richard didn’t ever commit to defense like Thorson and Ben will. Ben and Thorson won’t take shortcuts on the roster. Hence why we have guys like Ogele on the roster. They picked guys on fit and buy in to culture
 


fan of Ray Williams

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Really liked the way Sutherlin attacked the basket against Princeton. Also, 14 rebounds in 48 minutes thus far. Pretty good for his size. Seems to be a fearless player.
 

EG#9

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The important thing is the win. Without knowing anything about WKU, South Carolina, or Princeton going in, I didn't expect the Gophers to win the tournament. They did just that and it's a credit to Coach Johnson and his guys.

Both Willis and Battle have nice looking shots which is refreshing with some of the funky form we've seen from a lot of guys recently. I expect both those guys to continue making shots provided they have enough athleticism (or space created from a good play) to get them off against better competition.

Loved what I saw form Sutherlin with the aggressive drives to the basket. Another guy on the team that seems to totally understand what type of player he is and what he can/can't do on the court.

I liked Loewe much better against Princeton than WKU. Against WKU, he would get back on D in transition, but his man (often the Maryland transfer) would consistently score on him like he wasn't even there.

Very interesting to see the Gophers take just 11 3's in a 2 OT game after shooting so many against WKU. I thought it was a smart decision as everybody seemed to be able to get to a good shot off the bounce (which is interesting and goes against one of my concerns below).

I thought the 6-22 for Princeton from 3 was evidence of good Gopher defense defending those shots as opposed to missed good looks. 2 of the Princeton makes were NBA range in OT too. I do think that Princeton got to the rim more than I would like, but against that type of team you take that trade off if you have to.

Concerns from the Princeton game:

I think the Gophers only scored 9 points in the last 11 minutes of the second half with only 3(!) of those coming in the final 7 minutes. Much like the UMKC game, this game was right there for them to put away for a LONG time and when they refused to do it for long enough...the comeback eventually came.

The bigs really struggled early in the second half. Curry was awful in his first stretch, Daniels came in and struggled then Curry came back in and struggled before getting foul 4. If I remember correctly, Daniels actually played better in his second stint replacing Curry. Anyways, Ryan James said that both Princeton bigs were freshman and they combined for 16 points. Those guys didn't impress me at all, yet they outplayed the Gophers bigs. I think Curry's knowledge of the game and his occasional ability to hit a jumper are his strength while Daniels is much more athletic. Combine their strengths and that's probably one rotational B1G 5 man. I hope Thompson is not playing because of something he's not doing yet (ex understanding certain concepts) because if he can't crack this rotation based on anything that has to due with ability...

I am not concerned about the free throws long term as I think the guys missing them, with the exception of Sutherlin, will normally be good there. I am concerned by what appears to be a lack of foot speed that seemed to contribute to issues with the press. I don't think Loewe or Willis is either especially fast or quick for their position. They were playing with 4 guys who are comfortable handling the ball to a degree and yet things looked shaky with a bunch of below average (in comparison to B1G players) athletes pressuing them full court late. The foot speed was also apparent when trying to indbounds the ball as nobody seemed to have the burst to get much separation resulting in passes needing to be made to more dangerous spots on the court.

I am not as up in arms about the 7 man rotation as some. I think an 8 man rotation is competely reasonable arguably even ideal. They are 1 guy short (well, they are probably 3-4 guys short but they are playing 7) and establishing actually winning games is important. If Thompson and/or Thiam don't look like players you want to see in the rotation by late December, I'll be much more concerned.
 

builtbadgers

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In college basketball you only are allowed a certain amount of practice time. You have to choose your non negotiables and you have to be selective with your players. Richard didn’t ever commit to defense like Thorson and Ben will. Ben and Thorson won’t take shortcuts on the roster. Hence why we have guys like Ogele on the roster. They picked guys on fit and buy in to culture
Great post.
 

MplsGopher

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In college basketball you only are allowed a certain amount of practice time. You have to choose your non negotiables and you have to be selective with your players. Richard didn’t ever commit to defense like Thorson and Ben will. Ben and Thorson won’t take shortcuts on the roster. Hence why we have guys like Ogele on the roster. They picked guys on fit and buy in to culture
I'm 100% down with this.


My only question -- and it likely has no (satisfying, or any) answer -- why wasn't Ben able to sell this, and/or himself, on the two previous attempts where he interviewed for a head coach position?


It doesn't matter now, he's our guy. It's just a curious thing, to me.
 



Gopherfan84

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I'm 100% down with this.


My only question -- and it likely has no (satisfying, or any) answer -- why wasn't Ben able to sell this, and/or himself, on the two previous attempts where he interviewed for a head coach position?


It doesn't matter now, he's our guy. It's just a curious thing, to me.
His resume wasn’t good enough is the easy and true answer. As far as other jobs here are my other guesses. Ben will not kill an interview in regards to charisma and energy. He’s not a talker and salesmen. His recruiting style is being authentic and relationship based. He’s a solid leader, but he will never make it about him.
 

howeda7

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I'm 100% down with this.


My only question -- and it likely has no (satisfying, or any) answer -- why wasn't Ben able to sell this, and/or himself, on the two previous attempts where he interviewed for a head coach position?


It doesn't matter now, he's our guy. It's just a curious thing, to me.
"I'll get Dawson Garcia and Race Thompson" probably wasn't believable/realistic at Northern Illinois for one thing nor the local recruiting angle generally.
 

MplsGopher

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"I'll get Dawson Garcia and Race Thompson" probably wasn't believable/realistic at Northern Illinois for one thing nor the local recruiting angle generally.
I highly doubt that was his "angle" for those two jobs. Wasn't he also turned down by Montana State, or something like that?

(Also, you don't think recruiting Chicago is important for NIU?)

That was just for this job. Don't know if it was Coyle's idea, Ben's idea, or both of them that came up with that to sell it.
 

MplsGopher

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His resume wasn’t good enough is the easy and true answer. As far as other jobs here are my other guesses. Ben will not kill an interview in regards to charisma and energy. He’s not a talker and salesmen. His recruiting style is being authentic and relationship based. He’s a solid leader, but he will never make it about him.
Fair enough. But it was good enough for us.

This just makes it all the more seem to me that this was entirely Coyle's idea, and he sold Gable and the Regents on giving it a shot.
 



Gopherfan84

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Fair enough. But it was good enough for us.

This just makes it all the more seem to me that this was entirely Coyle's idea, and he sold Gable and the Regents on giving it a shot.
Coyle hired the guy he wanted. I’m a fan of the hire now, but anyone who argues his resume was good enough to be hired at any other B1G institution is very biased. Now his resmue isn’t/wasn’t all his fault and is not fully indicative of his head coaching capability. Coyle saw Ben work as an assistant and it helped Ben’s case here obviously
 

MplsGopher

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Coyle hired the guy he wanted. I’m a fan of the hire now, but anyone who argues his resume was good enough to be hired at any other B1G institution is very biased. Now his resmue isn’t/wasn’t all his fault and is not fully indicative of his head coaching capability. Coyle saw Ben work as an assistant and it helped Ben’s case here obviously
Bolded is a true, obvious thing that didn't even occur to me.

Do you think Coyle spent lots of time with the basketball team, outside of games? And was courtside for games, or up in the box?
 

jamiche

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Coyle hired the guy he wanted. I’m a fan of the hire now, but anyone who argues his resume was good enough to be hired at any other B1G institution is very biased. Now his resmue isn’t/wasn’t all his fault and is not fully indicative of his head coaching capability. Coyle saw Ben work as an assistant and it helped Ben’s case here obviously
Coyle obviously felt Johnson was the right fit, the tilt being his perceived ability to recruit locally. Secondly, I don't think this was considered a hot opening. Finally, seven of the fourteen current B1G HC's came out of the assistant or associate HC ranks. It's not like it's unusual for #2 guys to get hired in the B1G.
 

Gopherfan84

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Bolded is a true, obvious thing that didn't even occur to me.

Do you think Coyle spent lots of time with the basketball team, outside of games? And was courtside for games, or up in the box?
I think of all the sports, Coyle knows basketball the best. I don’t think he is a micromanager though. I haven’t been to a game since he’s been AD so I don’t know where he sits?
 

Fleckoff

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Not difficult to figure this stuff out. Anonymous fans on an obscure message board understand the concepts. Great coaches figure out how to put the concepts into practice.
Johnson was there for the majority of Pitino's teams
 

Gopherfan84

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Coyle obviously felt Johnson was the right fit, the tilt being his perceived ability to recruit locally. Secondly, I don't think this was considered a hot opening. Finally, seven of the fourteen current B1G HC's came out of the assistant or associate HC ranks. It's not like it's unusual for #2 guys to get hired in the B1G.
I agree on your first two points although Craig Smith did want this job. As far as the assistants being hired, it’s true in cases where the HC has retired. Otherwise most have went with HC from a lower level conference or job. Had Johnson stayed here and not went to Xavier do you think he would’ve gotten the job? I don’t know either way, but it makes me wonder what Coyle and Ben conversed about on his exit interview if he had one lol.
 

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I think of all the sports, Coyle knows basketball the best. I don’t think he is a micromanager though. I haven’t been to a game since he’s been AD so I don’t know where he sits?
I sit a section over from the bench. I've seen Coyle down there quite a few times the last few years, not every game, but enough where he knows what's going on
 

MaxyJR1

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Going to go with your best in a tournament game. Sure Ben will look to expand the bench during the season.
What are the Basketball Red Shirt Rules? Thompson played 1 second in the game against Princeton, defending the one inbound play.
 

MplsGopher

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What are the Basketball Red Shirt Rules? Thompson played 1 second in the game against Princeton, defending the one inbound play.
Then Thompson participated in this season. That’s it. He can’t redshirt.

Football is the only sport with a “<=X games/matches” provision.
 

MplsGopher

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Finally, seven of the fourteen current B1G HC's came out of the assistant or associate HC ranks.
I'm assuming you mean they were hired into that curren't HC role directly from an asst/asoc role.

Right, but how many had never had head coaching experience?


Maybe that's just not as big a deal in bball as football.
 


Gopherfan84

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I'm assuming you mean they were hired into that curren't HC role directly from an asst/asoc role.

Right, but how many had never had head coaching experience?


Maybe that's just not as big a deal in bball as football.
Until the last hiring cycle, very rarely have this many assistants been hired. Most of the time, it’s HCs from lower levels stepping into jobs. Most P5/6 assistants have to get mid/low major D1 HC jobs
 




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