***OFFICIAL MINNESOTA VS MICHIGAN STATE BTT IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

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jham13 said:
There were some great strides made this season, but finishing 3-7 in your last ten games tanked it! At least they didn't finish last in the B1G as projected.
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They basically lost to the tournament teams in the conference those games. Need to take a step next year to beat those teams.
 

stocker08 said:
At least we didn't lose because of the reffing.
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Right...we just lost because they laid down flat and let MSU stomp all over us. Just not enough effort and will to win in the big ten tourney. Izzo had his team more depth and better prepared....Even with Hall in foul trouble.
 


Ewert86PC said:
So you're implying that we're lacking in stamina?
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Clearly we're lacking in depth. MSU played 10 guys today, Indiana played 11, and Illinois played 10 against us.

But, leave it to you to give the least charitable interpretation of any shortcoming.
 


stocker08 said:
Because the scholarships are accounted for.
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Maybe, maybe not. At this point, I don't see Fox returning. He's pretty much given that message when interviewed. Ihnen could leave, Betts could leave, Ola Joseph could leave. I certainly hope none of the starters leave.
 


TwistingMyMelon said:
Maybe, maybe not. At this point, I don't see Fox returning. He's pretty much given that message when interviewed. Ihnen could leave, Betts could leave, Ola Joseph could leave. I certainly hope none of the starters leave.
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A lot of things *could* happen. But you don't offer scholarships that you don't have.
 




TwistingMyMelon said:
Clearly we're lacking in depth. MSU played 10 guys today, Indiana played 11, and Illinois played 10 against us.

But, leave it to you to give the least charitable interpretation of any shortcoming.
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Charity is the means through which mediocrity is labeled success.

You, yourself, said we lack depth. That means not enough energy, focus and motivation in players to finish off the game. Lack of physical, mental and emotional stamina to maintain a lead and finish the game with a win.

Just another set of excuses for a perpetually mismanaged program.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
Other team was better.
Quicker - more disciplined - played better defense - fewer mistakes - better ball movement on offense.

the other team was better. the better team won.
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Did you notice that there was a big difference between the halves? It's been that way most often in the latter games of the season. MSU didn't look particularly better in the first half. The roster is too thin.
 

Ewert86PC said:
Charity is the means through which mediocrity is labeled success.

You, yourself, said we lack depth. That means not enough energy, focus and motivation in players to finish off the game. Lack of physical, mental and emotional stamina to maintain a lead and finish the game with a win.

Just another set of excuses for a perpetually mismanaged program.
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Yes, we lack depth. That's a recruiting error that Johnson has made every year and it shows most at the end of the season.
 



Need a shooter in the game. Going down low and trading two for two will not win the game. Walker was not doing anything but is abusing us now. Lets
007gopherfan said:
Taking Mitchell out takes one less player out for the bigs to kick it too. Plus he is best bet to get a steal yet he still on bench. CBJ just doesn't know how to get it done in these tough games in the 2nd half and down the stretch. Pretty much just relying on Garcia to score it all. We are tired and two steps behind them.
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Not sure what CBJ’s logic to leave Carrington in game that long. He provided no value today.
007gopherfan said:
Agreed....Seems like banking on Ihnen, JOJ, Jack Wilson and seeing how that worked now. Surprised Ramberg also hasn't been used...not flashy...but can provide 2-5 minutes of tough cutting grit down low I think.
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Not about one player, but it was a close game before he went out. It was a shit show after that.Terrible coaching
 

Need a shooter in the game. Going down low and trading two for two will not win the game. Walker was not doing anything but is abusing us now. Lets
007gopherfan said:
Taking Mitchell out takes one less player out for the bigs to kick it too. Plus he is best bet to get a steal yet he still on bench. CBJ just doesn't know how to get it done in these tough games in the 2nd half and down the stretch. Pretty much just relying on Garcia to score it all. We are tired and two steps behind them.
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Not sure what CBJ’s logic to leave Carrington in game that long. He provided no value today.
 

Season ends with controvercy. When is the payoff?

A fun season at stretches. Much improved.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
Clearly we're lacking in depth. MSU played 10 guys today, Indiana played 11, and Illinois played 10 against us.

But, leave it to you to give the least charitable interpretation of any shortcoming.
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This brings up the questions on

1) Why Ramburg not used at all this year when last year he showed some grit.
2) Where is the development of Betts?
3) Why was Jack Wilson brought in for scholarship for a year if not going to use at all.
4) Not finding a way to JOJ strengths. Maybe injured down stretch but he is a guy Hawkins should have no issues throwing the alley oops too.
5) Need to have more than 1 or 2 recruits coming in each year.
6) No development of press or fast break in 3 years.....why? We have probably one of the quickest teams but we want to slow it down to get too many 1 on 1 shots.
7) Weak schedule at start might look good for a while and give some hope, but really makes it tough come big ten time.

Going to be interesting to see if we somehow get and NIT bid...if not what happens next. Do they all stay? Does the team get deeper? Really disappointed with the 2nd half effort today.
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
Did you notice that there was a big difference between the halves? It's been that way most often in the latter games of the season. MSU didn't look particularly better in the first half. The roster is too thin.
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It's more than depth - it's also decision-making. a disciplined team makes good decisions with the ball. the Gophers don't make good decisions with the ball.

yes, physical fatigue can lead to mental fatigue - but that's where the discipline needs to kick in
 

TwistingMyMelon said:
Yes, we lack depth. That's a recruiting error that Johnson has made every year and it shows most at the end of the season.
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But we hired Ben because he could recruit, right? You're making it sound like he has problems with recruiting in addition to lacking HC experience. Is that where this program should be at the end of year three?
 

We gave up 45 points in the second half. Payne turned it over 7 times and we missed at least two bunnies while MSU made their biggest run to break the game open.

Completely disappointing end to what could’ve been seen as a step in the right direction. Hopefully Ben can sell some of the momentum we had in the middle of the season.
 

Ewert86PC said:
But we hired Ben because he could recruit, right? You're making it sound like he has problems with recruiting in addition to lacking HC experience.
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I think it's more of a philosophy issue.

Johnson only wants to play 7 or 8 guys, so he thinks he only needs to recruit 7 or 8 guys.

but with injuries, foul trouble, shooting slumps, etc - you can't count on those same 7 or 8 guys to be available and playing well every night. that's when you need to have other players on the bench who can actually contribute - not just warm bodies wearing uniforms.

even if JOJ and Ihnen have deficiencies in their games, they are D1 athletes on scholarship. they need to be able to give you 5 productive minutes a game. if your 8th, 9th and 10th guys on the bench can't give you 5 decent minutes, then you might as well slap uniforms on mannequins and prop them up on the end of the bench, for all the good they do you.
 


Dsigma42 said:
Need a shooter in the game. Going down low and trading two for two will not win the game. Walker was not doing anything but is abusing us now. Lets

Not sure what CBJ’s logic to leave Carrington in game that long. He provided no value today.
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Carrington is the best defender on the team from the G position. He also showed some signs of being able to drive to the hoop but not consistently.
 

007gopherfan said:
This brings up the questions on

1) Why Ramburg not used at all this year when last year he showed some grit.
2) Where is the development of Betts?
3) Why was Jack Wilson brought in for scholarship for a year if not going to use at all.
4) Not finding a way to JOJ strengths. Maybe injured down stretch but he is a guy Hawkins should have no issues throwing the alley oops too.
5) Need to have more than 1 or 2 recruits coming in each year.
6) No development of press or fast break in 3 years.....why? We have probably one of the quickest teams but we want to slow it down to get too many 1 on 1 shots.
7) Weak schedule at start might look good for a while and give some hope, but really makes it tough come big ten time.

Going to be interesting to see if we somehow get and NIT bid...if not what happens next. Do they all stay? Does the team get deeper? Really disappointed with the 2nd half effort today.
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Agree with most of this to some degree. The nonconference schedule really hurt our NET ranking. That is clear. I'm not sure there's enough evidence to say it hurt our competitiveness in the Big Ten. We did start out 3-1 in conference play.

The coach simply has to recruit some help from the portal. Let the players who aren't contributing leave. Fleck recruits over existing players all of the time. Do not give any scholarships to walk ons because you always have fewer good players than you think.
 

Gold Vision said:
We gave up 45 points in the second half. Payne turned it over 7 times and we missed at least two bunnies while MSU made their biggest run to break the game open.

Completely disappointing end to what could’ve been seen as a step in the right direction. Hopefully Ben can sell some of the momentum we had in the middle of the season.
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Missed free throws again came back to hurt.
 


If CBJ was building things up he would have 4 freshman like Izzo has with some contributing 5 min/game and some redshirting. Betts and R/S freshman somehow isn't ready to play 5 minutes a game. Not sure its an ego thing or what he tells the other players, but seems like he is just going to hope he can get enough from the transfer portal. Is Kris Keinys ever going to provide anything or is he another decoy used just in practices? Yes this team could all come back but is there anything happening for if they don't or the year after that?
 

Its one thing to say Ben is over his head but another to say we need to give Will Ramberg more minutes. Lets be serious now lmao. Our complaint is that our deep bench walk on D2 transfer isnt getting minutes in the Big Ten tournament against Tyson Walker?
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I think it's more of a philosophy issue.

Johnson only wants to play 7 or 8 guys, so he thinks he only needs to recruit 7 or 8 guys.

but with injuries, foul trouble, shooting slumps, etc - you can't count on those same 7 or 8 guys to be available and playing well every night. that's when you need to have other players on the bench who can actually contribute - not just warm bodies wearing uniforms.

even if JOJ and Ihnen have deficiencies in their games, they are D1 athletes on scholarship. they need to be able to give you 5 productive minutes a game. if your 8th, 9th and 10th guys on the bench can't give you 5 decent minutes, then you might as well slap uniforms on mannequins and prop them up on the end of the bench, for all the good they do you.
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So the philosophy is that he either can't or won't coach and/or recruit to meet the demands of a successful Power 5 conference school.
 

It is the fact that Ramberg contributed some gritty minutes last year, but nothing this year in any games. Just practice squad....We seem to have many of these people. No development. Izzo consistently develops. Look at Holloman. Averaged only 8 min Freshman year, now Izzo has him 19 min/game this year and he will be ready for bigger minutes next two years against us. Izzo has 4 fresh this year developing, signed 3 for next season. We got only 2 signed again.
 

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