***OFFICIAL MINNESOTA AT VIRGINIA TECH BIG TEN/ACC CHALLENGE IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

forever a gopher

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This team has no ability to drive to the basket and create their own shot. Henley and JOJ are the only ones even attempting it. Rest of the offense is either post up Payne, or jack up contested outside shots. But they’re not a great shooting team.

So what exactly are we even attempting to do? Not fast enough to play run ‘n gun. Not quick enough laterally to defend or drive to the basket. Not good enough at FTs to convert the freebies when we get to the stripe. Not good enough shooters to hit outside shots. Not strong enough to back down defenders and play inside (excluding Payne). I honestly have no idea what this team is even capable of being good at.

Garcia and TT have to be some of the softest 6’-11”+ guys I’ve seen. Garcia continually looks like he’d rather be at home doing his taxes.

/vent over. Feel better now.
 


PhiloVance

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This team has no ability to drive to the basket and create their own shot. Henley and JOJ are the only ones even attempting it. Rest of the offense is either post up Payne, or jack up contested outside shots. But they’re not a great shooting team.

So what exactly are we even attempting to do? Not fast enough to play run ‘n gun. Not quick enough laterally to defend or drive to the basket. Not good enough at FTs to convert the freebies when we get to the stripe. Not good enough shooters to hit outside shots. Not strong enough to back down defenders and play inside (excluding Payne). I honestly have no idea what this team is even capable of being good at.

Garcia and TT have to be some of the softest 6’-11”+ guys I’ve seen. Garcia continually looks like he’d rather be at home doing his taxes.

/vent over. Feel better now.
I believe TT is a Gard type of player.
 

BarnBurner

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I wasn't defending the coach. Just pointing out he isn't the one going 2 for 30. If the coaching was terrible, what would you call the performance of the players on the floor other than worse than terrible?

Yeah, Ben brought these guys in but if you knew they were this bad six months ago, why didn't you say something?
Yes, you were. Own it.
 



bga1

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This team has no ability to drive to the basket and create their own shot. Henley and JOJ are the only ones even attempting it. Rest of the offense is either post up Payne, or jack up contested outside shots. But they’re not a great shooting team.

So what exactly are we even attempting to do? Not fast enough to play run ‘n gun. Not quick enough laterally to defend or drive to the basket. Not good enough at FTs to convert the freebies when we get to the stripe. Not good enough shooters to hit outside shots. Not strong enough to back down defenders and play inside (excluding Payne). I honestly have no idea what this team is even capable of being good at.

Garcia and TT have to be some of the softest 6’-11”+ guys I’ve seen. Garcia continually looks like he’d rather be at home doing his taxes.

/vent over. Feel better now.
They are long. They have guys that can shoot in Battle and Garcia - possibly Henley and Carrington.
I don't think Ben is going to do it, but I think they should play zone and slow the game down on both ends. The other option is to stick with his system on offense and defense- whatever it is- and take some bad beatings this year hoping that the guys are better at it later this year and ready to roll next year. I am just so sick of losing.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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Bga- without guards with speed, the losing will continue. Ben has proven to be a loser when it comes to the transfer portal…and in all reality, who can blame a big time guard for not wanting to come to our hot mess of a team when other Power 5 schools offer a starting job.

This team lacks speed and someone who can serve as a floor general (if you say cooper / Henley you may as well retire your gopherhole membership), until that happens it will be the same. Trotting out three bigs and playing battle at the 3 (which he is too slow to do) will eliminate his offensive skill set as other teams will put a 6’7” freak of nature on him and shut him out of games…then what will you have…
- carrington - not a great shooter and can’t create
- cooper - too slow (probably a better combo guard / spot shooter) *think smaller draymond green
- Henley - raw but can’t penetrate and can’t really shoot yet, maybe he turns it around, but he isn’t elite quick
- battle - great offensively, but only when matched against other teams bigs
- Garcia - hot garbage
- Payne - great and I’d be concerned he transfers
-TT - should either play as a SF due to mobility or pf…or transfer to UST / smaller school
-JOJ - good potential but log-jammed behind battle, Garcia, Payne, evans next year

Long story short: even with a year of taking our lumps, we won’t get fast over night…or get guards who can penetrate, so it won’t get better
 

bga1

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Bga- without guards with speed, the losing will continue. Ben has proven to be a loser when it comes to the transfer portal…and in all reality, who can blame a big time guard for not wanting to come to our hot mess of a team when other Power 5 schools offer a starting job.

This team lacks speed and someone who can serve as a floor general (if you say cooper / Henley you may as well retire your gopherhole membership), until that happens it will be the same. Trotting out three bigs and playing battle at the 3 (which he is too slow to do) will eliminate his offensive skill set as other teams will put a 6’7” freak of nature on him and shut him out of games…then what will you have…
- carrington - not a great shooter and can’t create
I think he's going to be just fine and will knock down shots out of a decent offense
- cooper - too slow (probably a better combo guard / spot shooter) *think smaller draymond green
- Henley - raw but can’t penetrate and can’t really shoot yet, maybe he turns it around, but he isn’t elite quick
Again, be patient with him, I think he's going to be really good.
- battle - great offensively, but only when matched against other teams bigs
Not a creator, needs to get shots out of sets
- Garcia - hot garbage
Agreed. I didn't like his approach to things when I saw him at Marquette a couple times and he wasn't missed at NC- something is off there.
- Payne - great and I’d be concerned he transfers
I think the attraction of playing PF (his NBA position) next to Evans is a big attraction- I say he stays. I bet Payne is shooting the 15 footer and driving to the hoop next year. His pace of improvement is really good. You can see it in a few games.
-TT - should either play as a SF due to mobility or pf…or transfer to UST / smaller school
Agree
-JOJ - good potential but log-jammed behind battle, Garcia, Payne, evans next year
I think Garcia goes elsewhere. I like JOJ!
Long story short: even with a year of taking our lumps, we won’t get fast over night…or get guards who can penetrate, so it won’t get better
100% agreed on the speed. I think he saw what Willis, who is not speedy, could do with his crafty old man game and thought Cooper might be able to pull it off again. Cooper is just not as good. When I watch this team I think what even a kid like Lil Dre who Pitino picked up from a Juco did here with jet speed. One kid like that would do a lot for this squad. Big miss by Ben and I cannot believe that there weren't some of those kids out there. I have seen several that could help us on the smaller school teams we have played so far.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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I think he's going to be just fine and will knock down shots out of a decent offense

Again, be patient with him, I think he's going to be really good.

Not a creator, needs to get shots out of sets

Agreed. I didn't like his approach to things when I saw him at Marquette a couple times and he wasn't missed at NC- something is off there.

I think the attraction of playing PF (his NBA position) next to Evans is a big attraction- I say he stays. I bet Payne is shooting the 15 footer and driving to the hoop next year. His pace of improvement is really good. You can see it in a few games.

Agree

I think Garcia goes elsewhere. I like JOJ!

100% agreed on the speed. I think he saw what Willis, who is not speedy, could do with his crafty old man game and thought Cooper might be able to pull it off again. Cooper is just not as good. When I watch this team I think what even a kid like Lil Dre who Pitino picked up from a Juco did here with jet speed. One kid like that would do a lot for this squad. Big miss by Ben and I cannot believe that there weren't some of those kids out there. I have seen several that could help us on the smaller school teams we have played so far.
I think in the modern NBA Payne can’t play a power forward (a position which is dying as they move to position less basketball and being able to guard 1-5 *think Celtics roster*)…if Payne wants to ever consider an NBA dream, he needs to dramatically work on his ability to space the floor, (shooting), laterally quickness (pick & roll defense), and ball handling…otherwise there are a lot of 6’9” guys who can’t make it…think Oturo
 



Roland Brooks

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Agree. LOVE Payne he will be a stud… it will interesting to see over the 4-5 weeks how he does against the big men in the Big 10… should be fun.
 

stocker08

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Ilnen has maybe two good weeks of basketball as a gophers coupled with 1.5 years of hot garbage…stop thinking he will make a difference…plus he is just another big (battle Garcia Payne evans JoJ)- I’d rather have JOJ take his minutes

You haven't seen Ihnen play in nearly two years and you have the inside scoop on him? Calling him "soft" was the first indication that some people are pulling things out of their ass.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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You haven't seen Ihnen play in nearly two years and you have the inside scoop on him? Calling him "soft" was the first indication that some people are pulling things out of their ass.
Where is the word “soft” in my comment?
 

stocker08

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Where is the word “soft” in my comment?

That's why I said "some people". I was referring to the poster I quoted, which you responded to. Regardless of whether you think Ihnen or Fox will be impact players, the fact is that they would provide depth on a team that hasn't had it for two straight years now. We get a few minutes out of the bottom of the bench....but for the most part....the top of the lineup is run into the ground.

Ever wonder why the team is immediately running back on defense rather than going for offense boards like most other teams? It's to preserve energy.
 



bga1

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I think in the modern NBA Payne can’t play a power forward (a position which is dying as they move to position less basketball and being able to guard 1-5 *think Celtics roster*)…if Payne wants to ever consider an NBA dream, he needs to dramatically work on his ability to space the floor, (shooting), laterally quickness (pick & roll defense), and ball handling…otherwise there are a lot of 6’9” guys who can’t make it…think Oturo
I think he is going to be able to do all of those. As far as defense did you watch him last night? He was the quickest player we had to react to movement on the floor. I think the right way to work with a kid like Payne is to post him up and then let him work his way out on the floor as he develops. Clem did that with Willie Burton. Oturu made huge strides his second year. Payne is way ahead of Oturu as a frosh. The good news for us is that Payne is still a couple of years away from optimizing for the NBA.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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That's why I said "some people". I was referring to the poster I quoted, which you responded to. Regardless of whether you think Ihnen or Fox will be impact players, the fact is that they would provide depth on a team that hasn't had it for two straight years now. We get a few minutes out of the bottom of the bench....but for the most part....the top of the lineup is run into the ground.

Ever wonder why the team is immediately running back on defense rather than going for offense boards like most other teams? It's to preserve energy.
I was under the impression it’s not an energy consumption tactic and more of a tactic to limit transition opportunities for the opposing team as the Gophs must want to get into a grind it out game
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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I think he is going to be able to do all of those. As far as defense did you watch him last night? He was the quickest player we had to react to movement on the floor. I think the right way to work with a kid like Payne is to post him up and then let him work his way out on the floor as he develops. Clem did that with Willie Burton. Oturu made huge strides his second year. Payne is way ahead of Oturu as a frosh. The good news for us is that Payne is still a couple of years away from optimizing for the NBA.
News flash - nba teams don’t really care about 22 year old draft prospects when there is an 18 year old or 19 year old prospect they can spend 3 years molding versus a college coach.

And while Payne is great on defense compared to the rest of the Gophs, that’s not really saying much. That’s comparing him to molasses. And oturo after year 2 still didn’t make the cut in the NBA.

I’m talking about him defending the likes of trae young, ja morant (he’s stuck in my mind due to Doyle/ unlv game), Steph curry, Tatum…really any guard in the nba who utilizes a heavy pick and roll game…those players would pick on him and he will have to be able to guard those situations
 

leib0039

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I love Payne as a college player he has massive upside, but I continue to see a lot of people on here that legit have 0 idea what an NBA player looks like. Did you see what they did to Payne in some PnR last night? They bring him out, PnR role him to death. And on offense hes good in the post and i think he will improve his range but guys like that dont exist in the NBA. There are like 5 bigs in whole league who cant shoot and they are like Gobert where they are so elite on defense they can make up for no offensive game.

This isnt a slight, again on the college level Payne could be a special player, but the NBA is a whole different game in a lot of ways. I see no way he even gets drafted. Again look at Oturu, he was special here, he can barely make it in the G league. Watch other good college teams, or some nba games, there are hundreds of guys better than payne. People on this board have vastly overrated our overall talent level. Its not low major level, but trust me its not even close to average P5 level either.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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I love Payne as a college player he has massive upside, but I continue to see a lot of people on here that legit have 0 idea what an NBA player looks like. Did you see what they did to Payne in some PnR last night? They bring him out, PnR role him to death. And on offense hes good in the post and i think he will improve his range but guys like that dont exist in the NBA. There are like 5 bigs in whole league who cant shoot and they are like Gobert where they are so elite on defense they can make up for no offensive game.

This isnt a slight, again on the college level Payne could be a special player, but the NBA is a whole different game in a lot of ways. I see no way he even gets drafted. Again look at Oturu, he was special here, he can barely make it in the G league. Watch other good college teams, or some nba games, there are hundreds of guys better than payne. People on this board have vastly overrated our overall talent level. Its not low major level, but trust me its not even close to average P5 level either.
Could not agree more and I’ve articulated the same sentiment in my comments.

Going further, he’ll need to add shooting to his game (BJ should have him shoot a ton this year since they will maybe have 3 B10 wins so who cares) as Evans will play center next year.
 

Dupreefor3

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Key tonight is the veterans have to lead. Pedulla a nice PG for Va Tech, I remember Pitino recruited him hard in the 2021 class, but he's not an explosive quick PG, like the one's that have hurt us. Hopefully Battle is more settled in and his shots are more in the flow of the offense. Team needs more out of Garcia, Battle and Cooper. I imagine will see more Payne as Va Tech will be bigger and the four guard UNLV line up was a tough match up for him. I'm guessing Henley and Thompson will still start. Thompson fine at 12-15 a night, Henley needs to be more diciplined with the ball, make smart plays, would prefer to see him at 15-20 as oppose to the 25-29 he has been playing. Maybe get the steady hand of Samuels an extra rotation or Ramburg's defense for 4-6 minutes
Well, we were 1/3 with the leadership, Cooper was fine, surprised he managed five assists with how bad everyone was shooting it, Battle, this team needs him to make shots to keep them in games Va Tech went on a 17-2 run after we tied it at 22, need Battle and Garcia to make shots during those stretches to keep the team in striking distance. I still think Battle will get back to form, but Garcia, I'll just say this team needs him to not be so soft, Pedulla can't beat you when you're 6'11" in the Post, that spin move was embarrassing. Respect the effort the Freshmen all gave, Carrington didn't have it shooting, but his defense solid. Henley was a little more under control, JOJ and Payne had nice outings, but like I said team needs Battle, Garcia and Cooper to be alphas, or it's going to be more of the same.
 

Dupreefor3

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I love Payne as a college player he has massive upside, but I continue to see a lot of people on here that legit have 0 idea what an NBA player looks like. Did you see what they did to Payne in some PnR last night? They bring him out, PnR role him to death. And on offense hes good in the post and i think he will improve his range but guys like that dont exist in the NBA. There are like 5 bigs in whole league who cant shoot and they are like Gobert where they are so elite on defense they can make up for no offensive game.

This isnt a slight, again on the college level Payne could be a special player, but the NBA is a whole different game in a lot of ways. I see no way he even gets drafted. Again look at Oturu, he was special here, he can barely make it in the G league. Watch other good college teams, or some nba games, there are hundreds of guys better than payne. People on this board have vastly overrated our overall talent level. Its not low major level, but trust me its not even close to average P5 level either.
Agree, Payne has a long way to go as far as being a legit NBA Prospect. Lot of bigs get exposed in PnR, but I think as he grows as a player that will get better. He showed a decent three point shot in AAU, so I know he's capable and he has a 7'3" wingspan so the height isn't as a big of the deal, but if he's ever going to get there, I doubt he will be on anyone's radar until his Junior year at the earliest. What would help him is if he is able to play the Four well on both sides of the floor when Evans gets here, there's definitely going to lineups especially once Battle and Garcia are gone with both on the floor.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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Agree, Payne has a long way to go as far as being a legit NBA Prospect. Lot of bigs get exposed in PnR, but I think as he grows as a player that will get better. He showed a decent three point shot in AAU, so I know he's capable and he has a 7'3" wingspan so the height isn't as a big of the deal, but if he's ever going to get there, I doubt he will be on anyone's radar until his Junior year at the earliest. What would help him is if he is able to play the Four well on both sides of the floor when Evans gets here, there's definitely going to lineups especially once Battle and Garcia are gone with both on the floor.
Decent at the high school level is meaningless. That is like 3 feet closer than the NBA line...so decent in HS translates to like 15-20% in NBA range (pure guess).

In regards to his 7'3" wing span it would be tied for 57th largest in the NBA *NAZ REID is 6'8.75" with a 7'3.25" wing span (he is much more mobile and can stretch the floor better than PAYNE - this is a player Payne should model his game after - NAZ plays hard too

- But the issue with Payne, since he strictly has a C skillset as of now, he would be matching up with the true centers of the NBA who A) are much taller, B) have higher wing-spans...not a good combo.

BJ should play for the future and tell Payne to work on both aspects of his game (inside and out *two treys a game* (this could be down while Garcia is on the block *if he ever goes there*). He can't only do it in practice, he needs to show it in the game.
 

Dupreefor3

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Decent at the high school level is meaningless. That is like 3 feet closer than the NBA line...so decent in HS translates to like 15-20% in NBA range (pure guess).

In regards to his 7'3" wing span it would be tied for 57th largest in the NBA *NAZ REID is 6'8.75" with a 7'3.25" wing span (he is much more mobile and can stretch the floor better than PAYNE - this is a player Payne should model his game after - NAZ plays hard too

- But the issue with Payne, since he strictly has a C skillset as of now, he would be matching up with the true centers of the NBA who A) are much taller, B) have higher wing-spans...not a good combo.

BJ should play for the future and tell Payne to work on both aspects of his game (inside and out *two treys a game* (this could be down while Garcia is on the block *if he ever goes there*). He can't only do it in practice, he needs to show it in the game.
Well, most AAU events have a shot clock and a college three point line, so it's not high school rules. It's also not as simple as just chucking up shots, if Payne can get a couple of attempts in the flow of the offense than by all means, but like most Freshman I think it's going to take time and PRACTICE to master the system and hone his skills. I do agree that Naz is nice comp for what he should try to turn himself into as they're very similar body types. Will see, he's a couple years away from that IMO
 

GopherWeatherGuy

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Well, most AAU events have a shot clock and a college three point line, so it's not high school rules. It's also not as simple as just chucking up shots, if Payne can get a couple of attempts in the flow of the offense than by all means, but like most Freshman I think it's going to take time and PRACTICE to master the system and hone his skills. I do agree that Naz is nice comp for what he should try to turn himself into as they're very similar body types. Will see, he's a couple years away from that IMO

Agree with all of this. Payne had more of an outside game than Oturu in high school, and Oturu showed the ability to shoot more from outside as his college career went on.

I believe we'll eventually see Payne do more outside, but the problem is this team has enough big guys that don't want to play in the paint, and Payne is one of the few willing and capable to do so.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy

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Agree with all of this. Payne had more of an outside game than Oturu in high school, and Oturu showed the ability to shoot more from outside as his college career went on.

I believe we'll eventually see Payne do more outside, but the problem is this team has enough big guys that don't want to play in the paint, and Payne is one of the few willing and capable to do so.
which will force his hand...if his dream is to go to the NBA and to build upon the momentum of a good to great (this is a rush to judgement as it is pre-B10 season) season...he may look in the mirror and transfer to the likes of an Arizona, Kentucky (Topping and Tshiebwe will be done) (, UCLA (no real big guys), North Carolina (Bacot and Pete Nance will be done) ...etc other big schools
 

stocker08

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I was under the impression it’s not an energy consumption tactic and more of a tactic to limit transition opportunities for the opposing team as the Gophs must want to get into a grind it out game

That may be too. Due to inexperience of the team, CBJ wants to get everyone back and set. But energy consumption definitely plays into that as well. It's an issue with having a short bench.
 

bga1

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Could not agree more and I’ve articulated the same sentiment in my comments.

Going further, he’ll need to add shooting to his game (BJ should have him shoot a ton this year since they will maybe have 3 B10 wins so who cares) as Evans will play center next year.
Right now, they need a banger. Every big wants to float on the perimeter. Make them do the dirty work down low and earn the right to go to the next level. I bet he moves out on the floor as the year goes along and I also bet he does it well. I agree that Evans will play center next year and I think Payne will be great both alongside of him and rotating with him. Perfect situation!
 

cheeseheadgophfan

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If Payne wants to know what he should model his game as, he should watch OSU film....Zed Key is a beast. Same size/build. Just dominates for a guy that isn't overly tall.
 

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Samuels finally did something near the end - drove to the bucket (sort of) and took a shot. It was unsuccessful but he did something!
Yep! The same Samuels that scored 22 against Stanford last season. Go figure!
 

jovs

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Well, we were 1/3 with the leadership, Cooper was fine, surprised he managed five assists with how bad everyone was shooting it, Battle, this team needs him to make shots to keep them in games Va Tech went on a 17-2 run after we tied it at 22, need Battle and Garcia to make shots during those stretches to keep the team in striking distance. I still think Battle will get back to form, but Garcia, I'll just say this team needs him to not be so soft, Pedulla can't beat you when you're 6'11" in the Post, that spin move was embarrassing. Respect the effort the Freshmen all gave, Carrington didn't have it shooting, but his defense solid. Henley was a little more under control, JOJ and Payne had nice outings, but like I said team needs Battle, Garcia and Cooper to be alphas, or it's going to be more of the same.
Exactly, Garcia and Batte went 4//19 (21%), you need them to shoot in the 35-40% range to be competitive.
 





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