***OFFICIAL MINNESOTA AT IOWA IN-GAME THREAD!!!!***

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Heracles said:
The perspective has to be the same as yours to be rational. I get it. Speaking of irrational....
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Doesn’t need to be the same as mine just rational that’s all it’s not asking much typically except here.
 

EG#9 said:
I totally disagree with anyone blaming the coaches for this loss. That was a really well coached game on both sides of the ball. On offense, Ciarroccca did a nice job of getting Demry in manageable situations despite his limitations as a QB. I though our offense looked better than Iowa's and that was with some really inept QB play. The worst play of the night was probably Demry taking that sack when we were down 7 and had the ball around midfield. He literally had no reason to leave the pocket.

Some things that stood out:

1. Wozniak- I don't think I will ever forget Wozniak's failure to secure that TD. Great decision to go for it, nice play call....and your Senior TE turns around and starts shuffling backwards instead of running. As for Croft throwing a high soft pass? Refer to his first pass of the game to Wozniak where a ball with some pace literally hit him in the shoulder pads before he could get his hands on it.

2. Lack of team speed: A beautiful play call by Ciarrocca gets Mark Williams lined up with an LB on an out and up with NOBODY behind him. That has to be a TD. Instead Williams is not even open and it's an incompletion. Then you have Tyler Johnson running with a piano on his back getting caught by 3 different Iowa defenders. At Purdue we saw Brooks get caught from behind and then Eric Carter literally get out ran by a 6'2 260 LB. This has to change.

3. Justus Harris: Gave up the two biggest plays of the game in the TD to Fant and then the pass interference that lead to Iowa's FG to go up 10. I don't want to be a homer and didn't feel like we got a good replay, but that PI looked like an absolutely ridiculous call. It certainly appeared like Harris never contacted until the ball was literally on the ground.

4. Tired of all the "credit" to Jerry Kill/Tracy Claeys/Whoever: Iowa F'ing State has two bigger wins in the second year of Matt Campbell's tenure than any of the wins we've had in the previous 6 years (or the previous 12-13 years...go back to beating Ohio State for an even close to comparable win by Minnesota). Aim F'ing higher than giving credit to coaches for not losing to terrible teams. That's not about any one coach, it's about this program continually being unable to give it's fans even one special season.
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Just want to get this straight. We must chastise the guys who turned this program around, for not winning a B1G title given their circumstances.....but we're supposed to put total faith in Fleck based on nothing? Got it.

Every power 5 coach has had success at schools like WMU. Just because he strolled in and started throwing the words "national title" around doesn't mean it's a foregone co conclusion.

I just don't get it, I guess.
 

Page said:
I want people to have perspective that’s all and this board has very little and is not representative of a rational fan.
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You want fans to be ok with a 4-8 or 5-7 season? 1-8 or 2-7 in the Big Ten. My thing is you can have Croft fail all day long and he’s still not going to grow enough to be the guy. In fact I don’t think he’ll grow at all.


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Some Day...Maybe said:
You want fans to be ok with a 4-8 or 5-7 season? 1-8 or 2-7 in the Big Ten. My thing is you can have Croft fail all day long and he’s still not going to grow enough to be the guy. In fact I don’t think he’ll grow at all.


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Agreed they should start Morgan ASAP
 

Page said:
The big picture is bleak? It’s the first year of a new staff my god. Again this place has no perspective after a loss just none.
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It's not the losses. It's the HOW.


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Page said:
I want people to have perspective that’s all and this board has very little and is not representative of a rational fan.
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There is no such thing as true rational fans. Most people don't care about Gopher football and have no opinion. The true fans show their emotions on their sleeve like many of us on here and we will critique the program. Believe me, I am a big fan, but it is painful at times.
 

Some Day...Maybe said:
You want fans to be ok with a 4-8 or 5-7 season? 1-8 or 2-7 in the Big Ten. My thing is you can have Croft fail all day long and he’s still not going to grow enough to be the guy. In fact I don’t think he’ll grow at all.


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Have to beat Neb to get 5 wins....Every other game will be an L and 2 blowouts.
 





Ewert86PC said:
What?? Now you are confusing me, those numbers are nonsense.

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Sorry. You're right. I pasted a nice Excel table into the message but it came out gobbly gook.
 



Some Day...Maybe said:
You want fans to be ok with a 4-8 or 5-7 season? 1-8 or 2-7 in the Big Ten. My thing is you can have Croft fail all day long and he’s still not going to grow enough to be the guy. In fact I don’t think he’ll grow at all.


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No we shouldn’t accept bad seasons in years 3 and 4 of a regime ever. But it takes time and that’s reality. This team is very close to a great record and that’s with tough luck with injuries and suspensions. Look further look deeper. How good was Matt Campbell and Iowa St last year?
 



Heracles said:
Just want to get this straight. We must chastise the guys who turned this program around, for not winning a B1G title given their circumstances.....but we're supposed to put total faith in Fleck based on nothing? Got it.

Every power 5 coach has had success at schools like WMU. Just because he strolled in and started throwing the words "national title" around doesn't mean it's a foregone co conclusion.

I just don't get it, I guess.
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That's the thing THEY DIDN'T TURN AROUND @#$^ We didn't beat anybody! SIX years in and the same number of wins over top 25 teams as Brewster had in 3.5 years! 0-6 against Wisconsin and 2-4 against Iowa with losses in our last 5 games combined against those teams when the program should have been well established. The program is still where it's been for much of the last 20 years close to the bottom of the conference with a few years where they are literally at the bottom and a few years where they are middle of the pack. Have never finished top 3 in the conference. The last coaching staff left no QB's, one competent WR (who may or may not have developed under them), little experience/depth/talent on the OL, and little experience/depth/talent in the secondary to go a long with literally one power 5 sized DE in Elmore.

Not asking you to put any faith in PJ Fleck or anyone else. All we can literally do is hope he's the guy to finally win an acceptable rate.
 

Page said:
Doesn’t need to be the same as mine just rational that’s all it’s not asking much typically except here.
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I'm starting to think you don't really know what rational means. It's based on logic. Logic is based on truths. In other words, tangible things that have actually happened.

I'm sorry, not trying to be a D here, you can't keep slinging rational around in regards to only people who blindly buy into Fleck. That's actually irrational. You're issuing loaded words that don't fit. Rational people are saying the results aren't there, and until they are, Fleck will be questioned.

Again, just because you don't agree doesn't make it irrational.
 

CurveballJesus said:
Self-righteous Fleck defender? Check.

Digging through old threads to try and make themselves look smart? Double-check.

Account created this month? Bingo.

Welcome back Face the Facts
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Fan and hardly missed a home game since 1984? Check. Received the idiotic “your opinion doesn’t matter because you’re new to the board” post? Check!
 

Heracles said:
Rhoda played more in the non-con. B1G schedule numbers?

They're both awful throwing the ball. Croft can keep drives alive and keep defenses reasonably honest with his legs. I may be mistaken, but this team couldn't run the ball in the B1G against worst defenses than Iowa with Rhoda.
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Croft 25/64 39% in BT

Rhoda 29/63 46% in BT

Why wouldn’t you play both? Croft has done NOTHING in 2 games as a starter. Croft did not make 1 throw a good HS QB couldn’t make tonight. He also didn’t make a single read a good HS QB couldn’t make. In fact I would argue a good HS QB would have made a better read or several better reads tonight.


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EG#9 said:
That's the thing THEY DIDN'T TURN AROUND @#$^ We didn't beat anybody! SIX years in and the same number of wins over top 25 teams as Brewster had in 3.5 years! 0-6 against Wisconsin and 2-4 against Iowa with losses in our last 5 games combined against those teams when the program should have been well established. The program is still where it's been for much of the last 20 years close to the bottom of the conference with a few years where they are literally at the bottom and a few years where they are middle of the pack. Have never finished top 3 in the conference. The last coaching staff left no QB's, one competent WR (who may or may not have developed under them), little experience/depth/talent on the OL, and little experience/depth/talent in the secondary to go a long with literally one power 5 sized DE in Elmore.

Not asking you to put any faith in PJ Fleck or anyone else. All we can literally do is hope he's the guy to finally win an acceptable rate.
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If you don't think Kill improved this program, you're obviously not going to have a reasonable debate. The program was a total joke. Four years later they were in a NYD bowl for the first time in damn near eternity.

I'm not asking you to revere Kill, either. But acting as if he was some kind of problem, and the program was worse off for him being coach, is just disingenuous and, frankly, ridiculous.
 

If you want to feel a little better, go watch Armstrong's Hudl videos/highlights. He makes throws that none of our current QB's can make. I know it's high school but watch the velocity and the placement. I guarantee he will also be the fastest QB on the team from day 1. Demry is just not that fast. I'll be shocked if Armstrong isn't our starter next year. Undefeated Georgia is starting a true freshman....it can work.


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Page said:
The big picture is bleak? It’s the first year of a new staff my god. Again this place has no perspective after a loss just none.
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That's not the point. The point is, the offensive coaches don't know how to out fox their opponent. Will that change in one, two, or three years? It takes brains and the ability to think quickly on your feet. Even with the drops and player mistakes, we would've won the game, in my opinion, with superior coaching. Just my take.
 

Heracles said:
If you don't think Kill improved this program, you're obviously not going to have a reasonable debate. The program was a total joke. Four years later they were in a NYD bowl for the first time in damn near eternity.

I'm not asking you to revere Kill, either. But acting as if he was some kind of problem, and the program was worse off for him being coach, is just disingenuous and, frankly, ridiculous.
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+1
 

Heracles said:
If you don't think Kill improved this program, you're obviously not going to have a reasonable debate. The program was a total joke. Four years later they were in a NYD bowl for the first time in damn near eternity.

I'm not asking you to revere Kill, either. But acting as if he was some kind of problem, and the program was worse off for him being coach, is just disingenuous and, frankly, ridiculous.
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Not worse off just the same. The program beat Iowa the year before he took the job, something we've had a ridiculously embarrassingly hard time doing. They went to a NYD Bowl because of new B1G rules that moved teams around in the pecking order. They lost that game. A win at a barely top 25 Nebraska team was the high point of the last staff's tenure. Campbell has already had more moments at Iowa State...talk about a terrible program...raise your standards for what doing a "good job" is. I certainly won't be patting PJ Fleck on the back if in 3-4 years we still aren't beating anyone of note.
 

Some Day...Maybe said:
Croft 25/64 39% in BT

Rhoda 29/63 46% in BT

Why wouldn’t you play both? Croft has done NOTHING in 2 games as a starter. Croft did not make 1 throw a good HS QB couldn’t make tonight. He also didn’t make a single read a good HS QB couldn’t make. In fact I would argue a good HS QB would have made a better read or several better reads tonight.


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But Croft was a good HS QB, that's why he got a B1G scholarship offer from the current #2 team in the nation (Penn State).

We've seen what both can do. Both are terrible. But, the season is over and Croft still has time left in the program. Also, he helps the running game, which is the only way the team can move the ball.

I see your side of the argument, and think it's totally reasonable. I just don't agree that things would be any better with Rhoda. Fleck apparently didn't either.
 


Heracles said:
But Croft was a good HS QB, that's why he got a B1G scholarship offer from the current #2 team in the nation (Penn State).

We've seen what both can do. Both are terrible. But, the season is over and Croft still has time left in the program. Also, he helps the running game, which is the only way the team can move the ball.

I see your side of the argument, and think it's totally reasonable. I just don't agree that things would be any better with Rhoda. Fleck apparently didn't either.
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Like most of our players, his offer list was MAC level, no Penn St. offer. But, it's hard to say if this is a Croft issue or a coaching/team issue. The kid rarely has an open receiver.
 

EG#9 said:
Not worse off just the same. The program beat Iowa the year before he took the job, something we've had a ridiculously embarrassingly hard time doing. They went to a NYD Bowl because of new B1G rules that moved teams around in the pecking order. They lost that game. A win at a barely top 25 Nebraska team was the high point of the last staff's tenure. Campbell has already had more moments at Iowa State...talk about a terrible program...raise your standards for what doing a "good job" is. I certainly won't be patting PJ Fleck on the back if in 3-4 years we still aren't beating anyone of note.
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The team absolutely routed Iowa, like 54-17/24 something like that under Kill. They beat a top 25 team in the Holiday Bowl right before Claeys was fired. They won more games in a four year period than the team had won since the 60s. They did all of this with no facilities, and a bunch of kids nobody else wanted (not because they "couldn't recruit," but because nobody in their right mind wanted to come here).

All Fleck did was lose a NYD bowl at WMU, as well. Don't see that as head and shoulders superior.

This debate is unwinnable around here. I like Fleck. I just want to see it first. I also think Kill and Claeys did a good job here. I don't know when those things became mutually exclusive.

Ski-U-Mah, have a great evening.
 

DoubleAlum said:
Like most of our players, his offer list was MAC level, no Penn St. offer. But, it's hard to say if this is a Croft issue or a coaching/team issue. The kid rarely has an open receiver.
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He had a Penn State offer. They brought him in close to signing day and tries to flip him. It was widely reported at the time. Just because it doesn't show up on 247 doesn't mean it's false.
 

Heracles said:
The team absolutely routed Iowa, like 54-17/24 something like that under Kill. They beat a top 25 team in the Holiday Bowl right before Claeys was fired. They won more games in a four year period than the team had won since the 60s. They did all of this with no facilities, and a bunch of kids nobody else wanted (not because they "couldn't recruit," but because nobody in their right mind wanted to come here).

All Fleck did was lose a NYD bowl at WMU, as well. Don't see that as head and shoulders superior.

This debate is unwinnable around here. I like Fleck. I just want to see it first. I also think Kill and Claeys did a good job here. I don't know when those things became mutually exclusive.

Ski-U-Mah, have a great evening.
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WSU wasn't ranked
 

Heracles said:
The team absolutely routed Iowa, like 54-17/24 something like that under Kill. They beat a top 25 team in the Holiday Bowl right before Claeys was fired. They won more games in a four year period than the team had won since the 60s. They did all of this with no facilities, and a bunch of kids nobody else wanted (not because they "couldn't recruit," but because nobody in their right mind wanted to come here).

All Fleck did was lose a NYD bowl at WMU.

This debate is unwinnable around here. I like Fleck. I just want to see it first. I also think Kill and Claeys did a good job here. I don't know when those things became mutually exclusive.

Ski-U-Mah, have a great evening.
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You can't sell anyone on coming to your program after a couple years? That's a you issue. That's on Kill/Claeys if they couldn't recruit better. Recruiting and developing talent is arguably the most important aspect of college football. You realize more was done at IOWA STATE this year than Kill/Claeys did at Minnesota? I am not saying they did a terrible job, just that they did nothing special. Nobody would have signed up for 2-4 against Iowa and 0-6 against Wisconsin after 6 years of their tenure. Washington State also lost to a 1-AA team last season...and that place is one of the toughest places to recruit to in the nation.
 


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