***OFFICIAL MICHIGAN STATE AT MINNESOTA IN-GAME THREAD!!!!***

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GophersInIowa said:
Rhoda won the starting job by playing better the first few games. Croft hurt his chances of getting back in by getting suspended.
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Agreed. Fleck said from the start that both would play until one separated from the other. The separation happened tonight. It didn't happen the first couple of games.
 

GophersInIowa said:
Rhoda won the starting job by playing better the first few games. Croft hurt his chances of getting back in by getting suspended.
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Not really true. Rhoda was given more chances from the start. All witnesses to Fall practice stated Croft was better. Demry's suspension wasn't a one time event. PJ was pushing the leadership card since before the season and needed to make an example of Croft. I am not saying PJ shouldn't have done what he did - but to suggest Rhoda beat Croft out on playing skills isn't accurate.


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GopherSteak said:
And to think we didn't run much read option with croft. Croft, Johnson and Williams looked like the real deal in the second half.
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Playing catch up doesn't lend itself to the running game. We'll see more read option assuming Croft plays more the rest of the year.
 

GophersInIowa said:
They both got a chance early in the season and Rhoda outplayed him. Who knows, we might have lost to Buffalo had Croft started. And shouldn't Croft get the blame for not doing the right things and getting suspended?

I would have liked Croft to get in the game last week too but I think it's easy to say this or that after the fact.
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Well, to be fair, Croft didn't get an extended opportunity as Fleck made the decision to go with Rhoda fairly early. Rhoda benefitted from the somewhat surprising shellacking of Oregon State followed by the convincing win over MTSU. Even though we lost to Maryland, Rhoda didn't play that badly in that game. It was the Purdue game where Rhoda really was exposed (and, of course, even more so in tonight's game).

So, given that Croft was suspended for a couple of games, I guess Fleck didn't wait an unreasonably long time to replace Rhoda.
 



GophersInIowa said:
Rhoda won the starting job by playing better the first few games. Croft hurt his chances of getting back in by getting suspended.
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Yep. The folks that are looking for reasons to blame Fleck for Croft not playing earlier are missing the point.
 

Johnnyboy18 said:
Had one catch when I commented that.
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He also was open quite a few other times but balls were not on target. Anyone watching could see that.
He's got some talent and will only get better as he learns to play the position.


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GophersInIowa said:
They both got a chance early in the season and Rhoda outplayed him. Who knows, we might have lost to Buffalo had Croft started. And shouldn't Croft get the blame for not doing the right things and getting suspended?

I would have liked Croft to get in the game last week too but I think it's easy to say this or that after the fact.
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Well, had Rhoda not even been here and Croft was named the starter he would have gotten all the reps. Who knows how much better he would be right now. As far as the suspension, if it was for smoking marijuana, I think it was stupid to suspend him. But it is fleck's program and he can make his own rules, but he has to live with the consequences. News flash! Marijuana is quickly becoming legal throughout the country.
 



WoodburyTim said:
I got a feeling I'll be on Face The Facts signature until the next coach is here. I was probably there in the Brewsters years for expressing dissent, who knows?
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Nope, you weren't, but this one is a good one.
The others I might rotate out, but yours is pretty solid.
 

Spoofin said:
Not really true. Rhoda was given more chances from the start. All witnesses to Fall practice stated Croft was better. Demry's suspension wasn't a one time event. PJ was pushing the leadership card since before the season and needed to make an example of Croft. I am not saying PJ shouldn't have done what he did - but to suggest Rhoda beat Croft out on playing skills isn't accurate.


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In general I would agree. I also remember that most of us here (according to the poll) thought Croft played better in the game against Buffalo.
 

Spoofin said:
Not really true. Rhoda was given more chances from the start. All witnesses to Fall practice stated Croft was better. Demry's suspension wasn't a one time event. PJ was pushing the leadership card since before the season and needed to make an example of Croft. I am not saying PJ shouldn't have done what he did - but to suggest Rhoda beat Croft out on playing skills isn't accurate.


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That doesn't mean Rhoda didn't play better the first few games. Maybe Fleck favored Rhoda but either way, Croft didn't do enough to be the starter.
 

Shoulda, woulda, coulda. What ifs. What would have happened had Croft started tonight?

Three-game swing. Hopefully Croft gets it altogether moving forward.

What we saw of Croft tonight bodes well.
 




GO4INLALALAND said:
Well, had Rhoda not even been here and Croft was named the starter he would have gotten all the reps. Who knows how much better he would be right now. As far as the suspension, if it was for smoking marijuana, I think it was stupid to suspend him. But it is fleck's program and he can make his own rules, but he has to live with the consequences. News flash! Marijuana is quickly becoming legal throughout the country.
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Stupid Fleck trying to help the QB depth issue. You would have preferred they go into the season with Croft and 3 true freshman QBs (Seth Green was suspended for the year at that time)?
 



GophersInIowa said:
That doesn't mean Rhoda didn't play better the first few games. Maybe Fleck favored Rhoda but either way, Croft didn't do enough to be the starter.
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Croft was better vs Buffalo and wasn't really allowed to play vs OSU because the ball is the program. He could have started out better, but had only played 1Q of FB in the previous 2-years. My point was that PJ knew Croft was better all along, but had to (rightfully) put him in his place first. Hopefully all that is behind us now.


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GophersInIowa said:
Stupid Fleck trying to help the QB depth issue. You would have preferred they go into the season with Croft and 3 true freshman QBs (Seth Green was suspended for the year at that time)?
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yeah. we wasted a scholarship on a qb that has shown he can't win a game in the big 10. Thank God we gave Rhoda that scholarship. Where would this team be without him?
 

GO4INLALALAND said:
yeah. we wasted a scholarship on a qb that has shown he can't win a game in the big 10. Thank God we gave Rhoda that scholarship. Where would this team be without him?
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We did need Rhoda. Unfortunately, Croft saw to that off the field.


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GO4INLALALAND said:
yeah. we wasted a scholarship on a qb that has shown he can't win a game in the big 10. Thank God we gave Rhoda that scholarship. Where would this team be without him?
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The scholarship would have probably gone to another walk on anyways. The frustration and lack of depth at QB should be with the former staff.
 

Spoofin said:
We did need Rhoda. Unfortunately, Croft saw to that off the field.


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Agreed. My point is that I think Fleck should have just named Croft the starter and given him all the first team reps. I think we would be in a better position. I get that Croft got suspended for supposedly smoking weed (I think the suspension was too harsh) and Rhoda still would have led this team to the two big 10 losses.
 

GO4INLALALAND said:
Agreed. My point is that I think Fleck should have just named Croft the starter and given him all the first team reps. I think we would be in a better position. I get that Croft got suspended for supposedly smoking weed (I think the suspension was too harsh) and Rhoda still would have led this team to the two big 10 losses.
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Hey, I have not been bashful about my support of DC11 since Fall camp. I get your point, but understand why PJ was afraid to hand the keys to Demry as the team leader. His suspension was not from a one time event. The warning signs were there and PJ knew it. Croft is better. We would have been better with him. The situation is on him tho - as much as I would like to blame PJ.


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stocker08 said:
You can't pull the runner forward. Only push from behind.

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It used to be you couldn't push from behind, either, but I guess it got so common that they gave in. MN lost a game to Wisconsin in part on such a call back in the 60s.
 

Since we don't know what Croft did (do we?) its unknowable if this is a case of a serious disciplinary issue (3 games is significant IMO) or a case of PJ making an example of someone for doing something the majority of college kids engage in at some level. I'd hate to think this is a classic case of cutting off the nose to spite the face. I don't know so I can't say that and different people have different ideas of what's important and to what degree punishment is necessary. Fleck's call, his program.
 

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