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GopherHoopsFan said:
Can you please elaborate on what was idiotic about my post?

I write a post about searching for positives in a strange season as a FAN. YOU reply by calling that idiotic.

If you believe that the attitudes of FANS on an F'ING FAN BLOG determine the future of a program then you can't be helped. Yep, it's posts about being positive and enjoying a college basketball season that will leave us a hapless program for eternity.

It took all of a handful of minutes for someone to take my post and turn it negative. What a beautiful place GopherHole is.

The Gophers ARE a middling program in a great conference. If you want to follow an annual winner go follow Duke or any of those schools. My favorite take on GopherHole is that we're bad because we settle for mediocrity. How do you suggest that is changed? Coaching change? Okay, we'll hire the next average to below average candidate and give him three or four years before we run him out the door. Rinse, repeat.

Is it impossible to find a great coach and alter the future of a program? No. Is it unlikely that it will happen? Yes. We do have to settle for something less than what fans of other programs settle for. That is simply a fact. The only thing that I would consider idiotic, would be a FAN that would EXPECT this team to be among the best in the nation. I'm not an idiot, I know they're not among the best teams in the nation. Therefore, I have a difficult time seeing how my post was idiotic.

Ideally, my favorite basketball team would be truly elite. But they're not. Pitino is a below average schemer, I agree with that gripe on this blog. But you know what? There are very few basketball coaches who are good schemers. The odds of one of those coaches ending up here? Low. Those coaches are bypassing Minnesota. You want to blame my attitude for that? Blame the institution, the salary, the winter, the whatever you want to blame, but that is reality. So go ahead, keep up with the negativity, oh joy!

I for one will simply enjoy watching some great players on what might become a surprisingly good team. If that makes me and my opinions idiotic, so be it.

That's my last post on this cesspool for the season. Good luck Gopher fans.

GopherHoopsFan
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USAF has had it with Pitino. They have been accused of hoping that the Gophers lose so that Pitino is fired. I am not certain if that is truth but it paints a picture.
 

die hard gopher said:
I’m curious to know if you thought this was a tourney team coming into the season and if yes, what have they shown to say they aren’t one?

I’d assume you don’t think Michigan, Illinois or OSU look like tourney teams either then because Michigan went into OT to a bad 0-3 Oakland team and beat Bowling Green by less than 15, Illininois needed a last second foul to beat Ohio and OSU only beat Umass Lowell by 10 and Illinois State by under 20. I wouldn’t say any of those teams have looked better than the gophers and all are projected tourney teams as well.
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Good points. I do have trust in pitino to get the best out of the team so we will see. Still early of course.
 

ecoperson said:
USAF has had it with Pitino. They have been accused of hoping that the Gophers lose so that Pitino is fired. I am not certain if that is truth but it paints a picture.
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That's all true but USAF has a point about not being content with a mediocre program. We should always be aiming to improve - whether or not that's by firing Pitino, we'll see.
 


manderson1984 said:

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Some more stats too about Gabe not being a good 3 point shooter in HS.... What an awful awful take.
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Ya, another reference 3,4 paragraphs down that he was recruited for his long range shooting ability and defense.
https://www.mnbasketballhub.com/new...-gabe-kalscheur-verbally-commits-to-minnesota

And this:
Boys basketball: DeLaSalle tops Fergus Falls for 3A title
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

MINNEAPOLIS — Gabe Kalscheur scored 27 points to lead DeLaSalle to a 79-56 victory over Fergus Falls in the 3A title game on Saturday night to become the first boys team in Minnesota history to win five straight state championships.
The top-seeded Islanders (24-4) won their 10th state title in school history. All but two of those championships came under the guidance of Dave Thorson, who notched his 500th-career coaching victory on Saturday.
Samm Jones had 14 points and Goanar Mar added 13 DeLaSalle.
Harrison Christensen scored 22 points to lead the third-seeded Otters (28-4). Fergus Falls entered the tournament allowing 55.5 points per game — the Islanders passed that mark midway through the second half.
The Otters stayed close early in their first-ever boys state title game and pulled to 21-20 on Matthew Monke’s 3-pointer with 6:56 to play in the first half. But the Islanders used perimeter shooting to fuel an 11-run. Kalscheur had six points during the stretch, including one 3-pointer and three free throws after getting fouled behind the arc.
 


GopherHoopsFan said:
Obviously. Is that a real question? I know where this is going... If they can do it, we can do it. Nope, it's not that simple. I actually think we're better than them this year, who knows though. All I'm saying is enjoy the season. I'm done posting here for the season. Maybe we'll catch up a year from now.

GopherHoopsFan
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You listed Michigan, Michigan State, and Ohio State, then a couple sentences later said the Gophers are not an elite program.

Obviously many people consider MSU elite. Less sure about Mich and OSU. Also wasn't sure if you were talking about over time, consistently, or just this season.

So yes, it was a real question. Actually it was two questions: elite and ahead of us. So not sure which you were answering, maybe both.


And yes, you correctly predicted where I was going, which I absolutely believe should be the case: if Wisconsin can do it, then Minnesota should be able to do it.

That has always been debated roundly. The only possible differences I can see is that Wisc is significantly closer to Chicago and the great lakes, and Wisc is not right in the middle of an urban population center. But at least for bball, that does not seem to be nearly as big of a historical barrier (or negative correlation) to success as it seems to be for football.
 

60's Guy said:
Ya, another reference 3,4 paragraphs down that he was recruited for his long range shooting ability and defense.
https://www.mnbasketballhub.com/new...-gabe-kalscheur-verbally-commits-to-minnesota

And this:
Boys basketball: DeLaSalle tops Fergus Falls for 3A title
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

MINNEAPOLIS — Gabe Kalscheur scored 27 points to lead DeLaSalle to a 79-56 victory over Fergus Falls in the 3A title game on Saturday night to become the first boys team in Minnesota history to win five straight state championships.
The top-seeded Islanders (24-4) won their 10th state title in school history. All but two of those championships came under the guidance of Dave Thorson, who notched his 500th-career coaching victory on Saturday.
Samm Jones had 14 points and Goanar Mar added 13 DeLaSalle.
Harrison Christensen scored 22 points to lead the third-seeded Otters (28-4). Fergus Falls entered the tournament allowing 55.5 points per game — the Islanders passed that mark midway through the second half.
The Otters stayed close early in their first-ever boys state title game and pulled to 21-20 on Matthew Monke’s 3-pointer with 6:56 to play in the first half. But the Islanders used perimeter shooting to fuel an 11-run. Kalscheur had six points during the stretch, including one 3-pointer and three free throws after getting fouled behind the arc.
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Yeah the idea that he's not a good shooter is awful, but the worst take in my opinion is the fact that the only value he brings is shooting. Grades out wonderfully on the defensive end, is a great unselfish teammate, and is incredibly smart. He contributes so much to the team beyond shooting 3 pointers. We have a really fun and wonderful opportunity to be great defensively on the perimeter if Gach defends better. Gabe, Mash, and Tree are all plus defenders. Carr is solid, but Gach has been very inconsistent so far. If he locks down like he seems capable of doing, we will give many B1G team fits on that end.
 

MplsGopher said:
You listed Michigan, Michigan State, and Ohio State, then a couple sentences later said the Gophers are not an elite program.

Obviously many people consider MSU elite. Less sure about Mich and OSU. Also wasn't sure if you were talking about over time, consistently, or just this season.

So yes, it was a real question. Actually it was two questions: elite and ahead of us. So not sure which you were answering, maybe both.


And yes, you correctly predicted where I was going, which I absolutely believe should be the case: if Wisconsin can do it, then Minnesota should be able to do it.

That has always been debated roundly. The only possible differences I can see is that Wisc is significantly closer to Chicago and the great lakes, and Wisc is not right in the middle of an urban population center. But at least for bball, that does not seem to be nearly as big of a historical barrier (or negative correlation) to success as it seems to be for football.
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I think we need to worry about being Iowa before Wisconsin, but yeah your point stands. It's possible here. A culture needs to be created and identified and I think it's starting to happen. I see Pitino recruiting to a style more now at least on the perimeter. Focusing on length and guards who can supposedly defend (Mutaf may be the outlier here). It will be interesting to see it continue to develop as I think he's here next year as well. The transfer market is something that is smart to take advantage of as well.
 

manderson1984 said:
Yeah the idea that he's not a good shooter is awful, but the worst take in my opinion is the fact that the only value he brings is shooting. Grades out wonderfully on the defensive end, is a great unselfish teammate, and is incredibly smart. He contributes so much to the team beyond shooting 3 pointers. We have a really fun and wonderful opportunity to be great defensively on the perimeter if Gach defends better. Gabe, Mash, and Tree are all plus defenders. Carr is solid, but Gach has been very inconsistent so far. If he locks down like he seems capable of doing, we will give many B1G team fits on that end.
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Thanks. Your consistency and objectivity add a lot to the board. Gabe is a valuable player even if he isn't shooting as well as we might like to see.
 



manderson1984 said:

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Some more stats too about Gabe not being a good 3 point shooter in HS.... What an awful awful take.
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If Gabe went elsewhere, there would be myriad complaints about how Minnesota let another shooter get away and never gets these types of players. Instead, we get complaints about how Gabe is not a shooter every time he misses a shot. I suppose that is better?
 

I’m honestly thrilled to just get a W at this point. It’s a weird year where these “home” games have the feel of a glorified scrimmage. When you consider all the new pieces to work into the rotation and the fact that we weren’t practicing for a stretch not too long ago, I’ll take what we’ve seen thus far (and be excited about the upside).

I’ve been plenty critical of RP at times, but it seems absurd to complain about the results thus far when good teams are barely winning and even losing against 300+ Kenpom competition.
 

manderson1984 said:
I think we need to worry about being Iowa before Wisconsin, but yeah your point stands. It's possible here. A culture needs to be created and identified and I think it's starting to happen. I see Pitino recruiting to a style more now at least on the perimeter. Focusing on length and guards who can supposedly defend (Mutaf may be the outlier here). It will be interesting to see it continue to develop as I think he's here next year as well. The transfer market is something that is smart to take advantage of as well.
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I'm sure this has been debated before. But just to reiterate, for a program like Minnesota that is a "mid major of the P6 world", how "picky" can they afford to be, if a high-rated recruit seems to be falling into their lap that doesn't necessarily fit their "style"?
 

MplsGopher said:
I'm sure this has been debated before. But just to reiterate, for a program like Minnesota that is a "mid major of the P6 world", how "picky" can they afford to be, if a high-rated recruit seems to be falling into their lap that doesn't necessarily fit their "style"?
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I like Mutaf so far and I am certainly assuming the idea that he can't defend yet as I don't know honestly. He certainly may be a better defender. I'm just looking at other Turkish prospects that have come over. I'm not saying he was a bad take or won't even fit. I think he can be a nice compliment to the Tre Williams of the world if what we read about his skill set is correct. Just can't be a sieve defensively.
 



manderson1984 said:
I like Mutaf so far and I am certainly assuming the idea that he can't defend yet as I don't know honestly. He certainly may be a better defender. I'm just looking at other Turkish prospects that have come over. I'm not saying he was a bad take or won't even fit. I think he can be a nice compliment to the Tre Williams of the world if what we read about his skill set is correct. Just can't be a sieve defensively.
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My post was not at all anything specific to Mutaf.
 

MplsGopher said:
My post was not at all anything specific to Mutaf.
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Who are you referring too then or you saying just in general? I think programs like ours can have one fall into our lap? Maybe, but that'd be well known early. Otherwise we need to use our minimal resources on ones that fit.
 

matt said:
If Gabe went elsewhere, there would be myriad complaints about how Minnesota let another shooter get away and never gets these types of players. Instead, we get complaints about how Gabe is not a shooter every time he misses a shot. I suppose that is better?
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If x happened, there would be myriad complaints about y.​
 

manderson1984 said:
I like Mutaf so far and I am certainly assuming the idea that he can't defend yet as I don't know honestly. He certainly may be a better defender. I'm just looking at other Turkish prospects that have come over. I'm not saying he was a bad take or won't even fit. I think he can be a nice compliment to the Tre Williams of the world if what we read about his skill set is correct. Just can't be a sieve defensively.
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Based on?
 

manderson1984 said:
Who are you referring too then or you saying just in general? I think programs like ours can have one fall into our lap? Maybe, but that'd be well known early. Otherwise we need to use our minimal resources on ones that fit.
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General. Let me reword it then: should the Gophers "ignore" a high-rated player that might want to play here but doesn't necessarily fit our "style"?

Say that Chet did not fit our style, tell him "no thanks" from the git go? Or some 4* kid from Lakeville, or whatever.
 


Chico Gopher said:
I actually hate announcers who make a big deal about the officials. Everybody has to deal with bad calls, iffy calls and no calls. I know and have known plenty of officials. It's not some big conspiracy against your team. Yeah, sometimes an official gets it wrong, but never on purpose and I guarantee, they don't care who wins. Good teams and good players and coaches don't use that as an excuse, because they all know that, in the big picture, they end up getting as many calls as they don't.

What's really funny is when you go to a random gym to watch a random game, in which you don't care who wins, and sit on one side for the first half and the other side for the second half. Guess which side is 100% positive they're getting screwed by the officials? Yup, both and in my experience, neither is correct.

Amazing how many times 2 people will see completely different things on the same play. That goes for pretty much all sports. I don't know the technical term for it, but I call it Wishful Eyesight.

I know there is a major shortage of game officials in the country. My advice for the people who complain the most about officials is generally, "Sign up, and get paid to do it better. It ain't as easy as it looks.". Of course, the people need to hear that are the ones who hate to hear that the most. :)
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My older brother officiated high school, D2-3 in FB and BB for years and you are spot on. We can all recall bad calls but in the end the refs rarely decide the outcome of the game. I used to go watch him ref but stopped when it got so ugly with name calling and threatening him. He even had death threats after a high school game ! Everyone who thinks they are an expert should sign up and try it.
 

I'm glad Gabe is on the team. I'm 100% sure nobody is more bothered by his 3pt efficiency than he himself. He wants to be here, he plays hard and by all accounts he's a fantastic teammate.

Is 1 for (8?) frustrating? Yup. But at some point you just gotta remember they're kids, very young adults still developing - and just root for them. Too many people tying their own sense of validation to the success or failure of a sports team and making it personal.

Watching someone overcome their obstacles and getting to cheer their moments of triumph is literally the best part of competition.
 

GringaGopher said:
My older brother officiated high school, D2-3 in FB and BB for years and you are spot on. We can all recall bad calls but in the end the refs rarely decide the outcome of the game. I used to go watch him ref but stopped when it got so ugly with name calling and threatening him. He even had death threats after a high school game ! Everyone who thinks they are an expert should sign up and try it.
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Disagree.

Wisconsin BB does not foul, only the opponents foul.
 

I'm just going to jump in here.

I've often times been critical of Gabe but I try very hard to be fair. He hasn't shot well from outside this year but as I mentioned in another thread, he has been better at going to the basket and getting good looks. I have no problem if guys shoot open shots that aren't 3s and layups. He seems to be money on mid-range shots. He has gone hard to the rim a couple times this year and finished or drawn a foul or both. If he starts to hit 3s at a decent % our team will be much better because he can change a game with his shooting as we've all seen.

Gabe plays good defense, tries hard, seems like a great kid. I wish him nothing but the best but it would be nice if he'd shoot like 38%+ on 3s. (note: he shot 34% last year but only 29.9% in conference)
 

Parcival said:
That's all true but USAF has a point about not being content with a mediocre program. We should always be aiming to improve - whether or not that's by firing Pitino, we'll see.
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Does seem like one's semi-positive take being called idiotic is a tad harsh. Especially after a 2-0 start.
 
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Who dropped Michael Jordan's head on the picture of the LMU player? :)
 

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