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Bfan said:
This is not an AD moment. It's just a game.

He was at the post-game several games ago.

I assume the end of the season is the time to say something.

The reality is that University of Minnesota has committed to a four-year rebuild with Ben Johnson. A contract exists right now that cannot be bought out until year four, realistically. The contract is basically a poison pill commitment to four years.

The more relevant AD issue is the women's basketball program. Lindsay Whalen is on her fifth year without any NCAA tournament success or other tournament success. Now the levy has broken with online criticism after the loss to Wisconsin and some other bungled games. I would say the women's program is more damning since it's now been several years of bad. Plus half the team left after last season. Plus Pitts had left. It's been bad and more bad for 5 years.

Anyway, there's nothing AD to comment on with men's basketball. Garcia is injured. Others are injured. We are in year 2 of a 4 year rebuild. The contract has a poison pill for another two years of the rebuild.
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Contracts can be broken at any point and they just need to run the analysis of what’s financially better… being in the cellar (which leads to lower ticket / concession sales) for years or paying the buyout and getting a coach around $5m
 

Bfan said:
This is not an AD moment. It's just a game.

He was at the post-game several games ago.

I assume the end of the season is the time to say something.

The reality is that University of Minnesota has committed to a four-year rebuild with Ben Johnson. A contract exists right now that cannot be bought out until year four, realistically. The contract is basically a poison pill commitment to four years.

The more relevant AD issue is the women's basketball program. Lindsay Whalen is on her fifth year without any NCAA tournament success or other tournament success. Now the levy has broken with online criticism after the loss to Wisconsin and some other bungled games. I would say the women's program is more damning since it's now been several years of bad. Plus half the team left after last season. Plus Pitts had left. It's been bad and more bad for 5 years.

Anyway, there's nothing AD to comment on with men's basketball. Garcia is injured. Others are injured. We are in year 2 of a 4 year rebuild. The contract has a poison pill for another two years of the rebuild.
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Pitch perfect.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Contracts can be broken at any point and they just need to run the analysis of what’s financially better… being in the cellar (which leads to lower ticket / concession sales) for years or paying the buyout and getting a coach around $5m
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Analysis would be a projection forward several years.

Payne is going to be Big Ten awesome. Garcia is really good. JOJ is going to be good. Everyone should be sky high on Evans coming next year. Sky high. Ben Johnson got those guys. Evans is rated as high as #11. This whole analysis has been beaten to death. Basically the team is overloaded at forward and needs guards. I like Henley. I like Carrington. Christie is coming in.

My analysis forward is for good times ahead. Why would I buy that out now?

The analysis says that Rutgers sucked it up for three years while the rebuild happened.

I will also say I think it will hinge on the guards / wing shooters. It's not going to succeed with 68 paint players and not 1 slasher or sniper.
 


goldengophers said:
An 8 page thread for an Iowa home game in mid Feb tells you everything about the state of this program.
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You mean state of this game. It's actually an improvement that the manure heap is only 8 pages. Maybe because all 3 freshmen did well...and a few more of you finally realize that we're rebuilding from the ground up...?

The program is perfectly fine. We have even better recruits for next year.
 


Bfan said:
Analysis would be a projection forward several years.

Payne is going to be Big Ten awesome. Garcia is really good. JOJ is going to be good. Everyone should be sky high on Evans coming next year. Sky high. Ben Johnson got those guys. Evans is rated as high as #11. This whole analysis has been beaten to death. Basically the team is overloaded at forward and needs guards. I like Henley. I like Carrington. Christie is coming in.

My analysis forward is for good times ahead. Why would I buy that out now?

The analysis says that Rutgers sucked it up for three years while the rebuild happened.

I will also say I think it will hinge on the guards / wing shooters. It's not going to succeed with 68 paint players and not 1 slasher or sniper.
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CBJ did not get Garcia, family issues and proximity did. The rest is hope. Payne and JOJ may progress. Evans May take the wear and tear of the B10 on his thin frame. He also be may be amazing and leave for NBA after a leave of limited playing time (happens all the time at bigger schools).

I’d also say Payne won’t be all B10 as he is probably a backup to Evans and he has no skills 3 feet away from the hope. He’s shown no flashes of a jumper or anything to suggest otherwise. Is he strong…yes. But this is a league of really strong men.
 
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stocker08 said:
Johnson decide to reward a walk-on rather than get a similarly capable player through the transfer portal. In hindsight....with this many injuries....he probably would have done things differently. But knowing that Samuels was taken....chances are that the scholarship would have been used on a guy that hardly improved the team outside from being another warm body to soak up minutes.

And how exactly was Betts scholarship "unused". He was considered a top 100 player in the 2023 class by some and Johnson had the opportunity to sign him for 2022 if he reclassed. I get that bitching for the purpose of bitching makes you feel better about your life for some reason....but another low level transfer who's unlikely to translate to wins is not worth missing out on a talented recruit. But I get that this doesn't fit your narrative.



The guard position is an absolute mess and it's the biggest issue that I have with Johnson right now. While a healthy roster would make the team look better.....there is still a huge hole at the point. I like Cooper....but even he isn't a great ball handler. It's imperative that he hunts down a guy in the transfer portal.



Having two straight years of having a couple guys looking at decent minutes out for the entire season is not super common. That's downright bad luck....and it shortens a bench tremendously. Then you have a couple more guys out....including your best player? It's naive to think that having this kind of injury trouble is typical for teams. But I've been on this board long enough to know that certain fans get joy out of complaining.
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They're wasted because neither player's situation for next year would be any different if we'd used the scholarships. Betts would still be coming next year without the scholarship and Ramburg would still be on the team without the scholarship. We could have signed two more players who would be contributing now. We certainly should have signed one.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
Contracts can be broken at any point and they just need to run the analysis of what’s financially better… being in the cellar (which leads to lower ticket / concession sales) for years or paying the buyout and getting a coach around $5m
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Long-term it's not a hard question.
 






howeda7 said:
They're wasted because neither player's situation for next year would be any different if we'd used the scholarships. Betts would still be coming next year without the scholarship and Ramburg would still be on the team without the scholarship. We could have signed two more players who would be contributing now. We certainly should have signed one.
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Would Betts be coming next year? You sure about that?
 






Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
CBJ did not get Garcia, family issues and proximity did. The rest is hope. Payne and JOJ may progress. Evans May take
The west and rear of the B10 on his thin frame. He also be may be amazing and leave for NBA after a leave of limited playing time (happens all the time at bigger schools).

I’d also say Payne won’t be all B10 as he is probably a backup to Evans and he has no skills 3 feet away from the hope. He’s shown no flashes of a jumper or anything to suggest otherwise. Is he strong…yes. But this is a league of really strong men.
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Your schtick is old Tommie Boy.
 



A lot of good things from the three freshmen today. Very encouraging. The Gophers battled.

The next step is to follow it with another competitive performance in East Lansing. It sounds like Garcia will be back, so that’ll help things.
 

howeda7 said:
Pretty sure. He had already committed when they re-classified him.
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If so, did he agree to reclassify with the agreement that he'd be under scholarship. Sounds like you're doing a lot of speculating on this.
 

Wet_Blanket_Guy said:
CBJ did not get Garcia, family issues and proximity did. The rest is hope. Payne and JOJ may progress. Evans May take
The west and rear of the B10 on his thin frame. He also be may be amazing and leave for NBA after a leave of limited playing time (happens all the time at bigger schools).

I’d also say Payne won’t be all B10 as he is probably a backup to Evans and he has no skills 3 feet away from the hope. He’s shown no flashes of a jumper or anything to suggest otherwise. Is he strong…yes. But this is a league of really strong men.
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Well, let me respectfully disagree here. Yes, Garcia's family situation was a huge factor in his decision, and I also know he and Johnson had a very good relationship before when he was making his initial decision to go to Marquette. Garcia strongly considered Xavier, where Johnson was the main recruiter after recruiting him initially for the Gophers.

Payne may not end up all Big Ten, but when he was in high school I watched him shoot quite a bit. He didn't shoot much from outside at all, but didn't have to. I saw him make 5 3's in a row when warming up. Of course, that doesn't make him a great shooter, he's not, but it does mean he has some shooting skills. He shot 3's when he played AAU ball as well on occasion. I have no idea why he doesn't shoot from the elbow/free throw line, or drive more often past guys that he's much quicker than. I do believe that will come. He has the skills to develop his shot. And when he adds another 20 lbs (look at his frame, he's gained about 25 lbs so far and can easily gain more), he'll be about 275. There just aren't that many guys who are that size and have the quickness that Payne has. If he's not all-Big Ten, he'll be awfully close.

Right now things are really bad with this team. So many areas to improve. But with the improvement of Payne and the other freshmen (and yes, they'll improve), with the addition of Betts and the other 2 recruits coming in, and while it's not certain-help from Ihnen and Fox, they will finally have some depth on this team. Yes, they still need guard help. A competent point guard/ball handler would really be ideal. But I can't fathom them not being much improved next year-during Johnson's 2nd real recruiting class. As I've said before, if they don't show a lot of improvement next year, there is a real problem. They will be much better.
 

I can see Payne and Evans as a high, low post next year. That should work great!
 

stocker08 said:
If so, did he agree to reclassify with the agreement that he'd be under scholarship. Sounds like you're doing a lot of speculating on this.
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He is supposed to be senior in HS and was going to go to prep school and committed to the 2023 class. Weeks later they re-classified him to 2022. Obviously he agreed to do it. I'm sure they felt he'd get more practicing against B1G players then in Prep school. But there's no reason to think he'd have de-committed from being a 2023 commit. That's what he agreed to originally. Obviously they would have had to find a player with one year left for that spot. But that shouldn't have been impossible. Same with Ramburg's spot.
 

howeda7 said:
He is supposed to be senior in HS and was going to go to prep school and committed to the 2023 class. Weeks later they re-classified him to 2022. Obviously he agreed to do it. I'm sure they felt he'd get more practicing against B1G players then in Prep school. But there's no reason to think he'd have de-committed from being a 2023 commit. That's what he agreed to originally. Obviously they would have had to find a player with one year left for that spot. But that shouldn't have been impossible. Same with Ramburg's spot.
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You keep ignoring the main question here. If the Gophers don't put him on scholarship....does he agree to it? Isn't that basically asking him to be a walk-on for the year?
 

short ornery norwegian said:
I really don't care what he says. I just want him - assuming he actually exists - to put his ass in front of a camera and make some kind of public statement.
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Curious, what would him putting his ass in front of a camera prove? Why are you longing to see him on TV? What would that accomplish, particularly if you don't really care what he says anyway?
 

tjgopher said:
Curious, what would him putting his ass in front of a camera prove? Why are you longing to see him on TV? What would that accomplish, particularly if you don't really care what he says anyway?
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If I’m not mistaken, putting asses in front of cameras is currently trademarked by the Kardashians sisters.
 

forever a gopher said:
Good Lord, in your world, what does a poor program look like?

You do know the point of playing sports is to win, right?
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howeda7 said:
Imagine saying this and believing it. Not might be. Is. 5-28. On the way to 5-35. It's perfectly fine.
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If Ben had a full 4 years of recruits on the team, and/or he wasn't in on any Top-150 players...then even a mediocre record wouldn't be acceptable to me.

I seriously don't care about the won-loss record now. I only care about the possibility of putting together a contending team in a couple of years. And then sustaining it.
 

stocker08 said:
You keep ignoring the main question here. If the Gophers don't put him on scholarship....does he agree to it? Isn't that basically asking him to be a walk-on for the year?
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What? Betts was going to prep school. He wasn't coming here otherwise this year. We were going to sit on 2 scholarships if he went to prep school. And if you think he would've decommitted then it means CBJ wasn't doing good job
 


howeda7 said:
Betts would still be coming next year without the scholarship and Ramburg would still be on the team without the scholarship. We could have signed two more players who would be contributing now. We certainly should have signed one.
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Yes, at least one more. I will confess that I'm glad Ramberg got his scholarship. He may be limited but he has made the most of his minutes. We certainly could have done worse with his scholarship. He's contributed more than Thiam and Ogele combined did last year and probably more than Charlie Daniels did most games last season. I hope that Johnson continues his scholarship for next year. If Johnson needs roster spaces to recruit transfers, tell Thompson that he would be better off transferring and tell Fox that he's not getting three years of an athletic scholarship as a grad transfer.

To those who think that using a scholarship to accelerate Betts' admission was a good idea for a program short on quality guards with immediate eligibility, I'd ask the following: Have you ever seen another college basketball coach do this? I haven't in over 40 years of following the sport. Sure, sit-out transfers (who demonstrated something at their previous schools) were recruited all the time in the past but I've never seen a potential high school senior recruited as a sit out. Even if he did break his commitment after a prep school season, as USAF noted, he didn't fill a position of short-term need anyway.

To me, this move says only one thing: desperation. Two years in a row, Johnson quit recruiting from the portal prematurely. Last year he failed to obtain enough frontline players for insurance on that part of the roster. This season he failed to do the same with guards. This move just looks like a cockamamie excuse to justify that failure. I guess it's not the worst excuse in the world because some people around here seem to have bought it.
 

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