Note from Shooter...and an Urp in My Throat.

[husker70]

WCCO 50,000 watts of clear channel nothingness, absolutely nothing. But broadcasting any sports with Dave Lee is cruel and unusal by any standard. Who listens to it. What is the share. Who sponsors the game Country Hearth? Those guys as loyal as they are, are paying a boatload for minnimal return.

Thankfully, Gopher games prevent me from listening. The rest of the day, there is no reason. I find the programing vapid. And now they take the over night broad cast from Boston. CBS or See BS little or nothing 24 hours a day.

 

[disco]

Yes, and the WIAC is to the national DIII scene just as St. Thomas is to the MIAC scene. Similar situation on a different scale. It is my understanding that Wisconsin made this decision to be the big fish in the pond a long time ago, and as a result do not have public DII schools within the border. This is in contrast to the DIII landscape elsewhere in the US (in most cases, if not all).

You're wrong. UW-Parkside in Kenosha is a D-2 school. They do not however have a football team.

Green Bay and Milwaukee are both D-1 schools. I don't think either one has football though.

The rest of the UW schools (except Becky of course) are D-3.

All that said, UST could easily go D-1 (FCS for football) if they wanted. They have the money and the alumni base to do so. Going D-2 would make no sense whatsoever. Public perception of D2 isn't any more than D3 - in fact, around here it's less, simply because the MIAC gets a lot of pub, while the NSIC gets very little (I expect money has a lot to do with that), and you're paying for scholarships and getting little in return over being in the MIAC.

If I recall, they looked at going D1, and decided not to spend the money.

 

[TrapperDoo]

You're wrong. UW-Parkside in Kenosha is a D-2 school. They do not however have a football team.

Green Bay and Milwaukee are both D-1 schools. I don't think either one has football though.

The rest of the UW schools (except Becky of course) are D-3.

All that said, UST could easily go D-1 (FCS for football) if they wanted. They have the money and the alumni base to do so. Going D-2 would make no sense whatsoever. Public perception of D2 isn't any more than D3 - in fact, around here it's less, simply because the MIAC gets a lot of pub, while the NSIC gets very little (I expect money has a lot to do with that), and you're paying for scholarships and getting little in return over being in the MIAC.

If I recall, they looked at going D1, and decided not to spend the money.

They don't have the real estate for a D1-level stadium, and couldn't possibly afford to procure the real estate if they wanted to. We got the Gophers and thats going to be a good thing moving forward. Another D1 team would make it just that much harder on the U of M. Tommies need to stay in the MIAC to keep it interesting (St. Johns, Bethel, St. Olaf - good stuff). Bulldog football at UMD is good stuff. Gophers will get into the Big 10 mix. Good football all around us here in Minnesota.

 

[tjgopher]

They don't have the real estate for a D1-level stadium.

St. Thomas going D-I would likely entail them going D-I FCS in football, which means the existing Tommie football stadium could easily be upgraded to meet any requirements for FCS teams without any need for relocation.

 

[disco]

There are no longer any stadium capacity requirements for any level of D1 football. There are attendance requirements.

FBS requires an average of 15,000 fans.
I don't think there are any attendance requirements for D1 FCS football, so UST would be fine.

I still think SCSU, when they were considering dropping football, should have done so, and moved all other sports to D1.

 

[Deleted_User]

St. Thomas would destroy the Golden Dome of ND and end the feed of Cretin grads to that infidel infested, pink palace. But, then I digress from the subject.

 

[Wheelwright]

St. Thomas will remain where they are. They have a good thing going, why change it. The talk of them going to D-I has been around for about 20 years and they have stayed.

In football, they are successful now, but have not been successful for most of their history. We'll see what happens when their coach leaves.

 

[disco]

St. Thomas will remain where they are. They have a good thing going, why change it. The talk of them going to D-I has been around for about 20 years and they have stayed.

In football, they are successful now, but have not been successful for most of their history. We'll see what happens when their coach leaves.

I think the thought is that they may well have outgrown the MIAC. Only the U, Mankato, SCSU and UMD are larger, and the next largest MIAC school is St. Marys, which is much smaller. Mankato, SCSU and UMD aren't likely to move up as the money isn't there, which makes UST the most likely candidate to move up to D1 in the state.

It's really odd that all of the surrounding states have multiple D1 schools, and we only have one.
The Dakotas each have two (NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD). Wisconsin has four (UW, UWM, UWGB, Marquette), and Iowa has four (Iowa, ISU, UNI, Drake).

 

[Wheelwright]

While I don't disagree with your point. All the MN schools you mentioned (except St. Mary's) have D-I hockey. MN is interesting that way. Schools have went D-II and then opted to D-I in a sport where there is lots of state interest and talent to field competitive teams. Not sure if there would be a lot of interest in another D-I program in the metro. we barely support the lone program in the state.

 

[50PoundHead]

discochris, I haven't followed all of the conversation, but some of the D-1 schools you've mentioned from other states either are FCS or don't have football. I think St. Thomas could easily go FCS in football, but what conference would they join and how would that add to the program costs in terms of travel? Drake plays in the Pioneer League with members on both ocean coastlines and that has to be quite an undertaking. St. Thomas may have the resources to do that, but it would have huge cost implications. The Missouri Valley Conference would probably make more sense, but that conference is composed of all public institutions and I don't know whether or not there's a "wall" there that would make entrance into that conference more difficult. It would be interesting.

I always thought that if St. Thomas were going to move up, it would be in basketball. They aren't that much smaller than Marquette and it could make for a nice rivalry (they actually used to play each other and maybe still do for all I know). Costs of moving up are lower than they are for football. Heck, I can remember that Concordia-St. Paul actually contemplated (wrongheadedly) a move to D-1 for hoops a couple of decades ago.

Good conversation. I think the question is more about, as has been stated, St. Thomas outgrowing the MIAC as opposed to anything else and I think it's a valid discussion. No question they have resources that the other MIAC schools are having trouble duplicating and that may cause a competitive imbalance. But as some have pointed out, the MIAC has run in cycles over the past 50 years. There's no question that St. Thomas has a stellar marketing department and it's paying off for them.

 

[disco]

discochris, I haven't followed all of the conversation, but some of the D-1 schools you've mentioned from other states either are FCS or don't have football. I think St. Thomas could easily go FCS in football, but what conference would they join and how would that add to the program costs in terms of travel? Drake plays in the Pioneer League with members on both ocean coastlines and that has to be quite an undertaking. St. Thomas may have the resources to do that, but it would have huge cost implications. The Missouri Valley Conference would probably make more sense, but that conference is composed of all public institutions and I don't know whether or not there's a "wall" there that would make entrance into that conference more difficult. It would be interesting.

I always thought that if St. Thomas were going to move up, it would be in basketball. They aren't that much smaller than Marquette and it could make for a nice rivalry (they actually used to play each other and maybe still do for all I know). Costs of moving up are lower than they are for football. Heck, I can remember that Concordia-St. Paul actually contemplated (wrongheadedly) a move to D-1 for hoops a couple of decades ago.

The Dakota Schools, UNI, and Drake are all D1-FCS. The Wisconsin schools do not have football.

The Pioneer League is a FCS football-only conference, and is unusual in that it is made up of schools that choose not to offer scholarships for football.

As far as moving up in basketball, that's not an option. The NCAA has since made a rule that you can no longer move up to D1 in just one sport. (hockey is the exception because there is no D2 hockey). If you go D1, you must go across the board. This was to prevent schools from moving up only in basketball.

Interestingly enough, that's why the Pioneer League exists. The schools wanted to go D1, did not want to drop football, but didn't want the cost involved with all the scholarships.