Not so quick question...

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patrick08

patrick08

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Why are you bandwagon Gopher fans, who thought the season was over after the Iowa loss and we wouldn't compete against Michigan, so upset after losing today?

You obviously had some misguided Rose Bowl hopes before the season, but why so upset now? We played competitive for 3 quarters on the road at the big house with our coach being gone and a RS freshmen QB against Michigan. I repeat against Michigan. Did you think we had the same talent level as Michigan? Was there something Kill could have done differently. I get you weren't happy with the play calling. Neither was I. Pretty easy to diagram a division 1 college football offense from your couch huh?

What should be done from here on out? You are so unwilling to move on past a loss like Iowa, but have somehow unwillingly looked at recent history when we fired a coach (Mason/Brewster). How about Gopher sports in general. Remember Gopher basketball before Tubby got here. Beats UCLA in the first round of the tournament and we fire him. Lucia has won two national titles. Lost to Yale, who won the whole thing, in the first round and you want him gone.

Let's give our AD a chance to evaluate and see if he can get this practice facility before we start clammering for more firings because of some delusional hope that Dungy/Warmath/Flip Saunders/Herb Brooks will just end up coaching here.

As someone who loves he Gophers, I had to get this off my chest. All this negativity sucks. You guys were complaining this last week about two recruits committing. Why not go after the Wild who spent $200 mil on two players and have done nothing. Or the Vikings who have the reigning MVP and are 1-4. Or the Twins who have lost 90+ the third year in a row. Or the Timber pups for whatever reason they can't win.
 

patrick08 said:
As someone who loves he Gophers, I had to get this off my chest. All this negativity sucks. You guys were complaining this last week about two recruits committing. Why not go after the Wild who spent $200 mil on two players and have done nothing. Or the Vikings who have the reigning MVP and are 1-4. Or the Twins who have lost 90+ the third year in a row. Or the Timber pups for whatever reason they can't win.
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I'm pretty negative about those outcomes as well. I don't get to choose whether we keep the coach or not and I'm sure Norwood doesn't give a rats a$$ what my opinion is. So I'm going to let him do his job and evaluate the staff after the season, and make whatever decision he chooses. I'm a Gophers fan and will be long after this coaching staff or any other has moved on. Least my ladies hockey team won their 51st straight game today...
 

Valid points for the most part, methinks. Really, we are one game away from being exactly where we thought we'd be at this point in the season, and we haven't been blown out of the water yet (today's score was much worse than it should have been) like we were the last two seasons (38-0 in the 2nd half against Nebraska last year). I feel like the team has not played to its potential the last two games and run into two teams that were more talented than them and played decently, so I still think we can nab a win at Indiana (won't be easy) and an upset against somebody else, and we'd all be somewhat content.

However, there are indeed problems to consider. The four I would point out are 1) offensive play-calling is horrendously conservative, 2) seizures affecting the team, 3) no QB development, and 4) awful recruiting. So there are some legitimate concerns imo, but I don't think there is cause for panic yet either.
 

I blame it all on tearing down Memorial Stadium. We buried all the great history of Gopher football. God will get you for that.....and he has.
 

patrick08 said:
Why are you bandwagon Gopher fans, who thought the season was over after the Iowa loss and we wouldn't compete against Michigan, so upset after losing today?

You obviously had some misguided Rose Bowl hopes before the season, but why so upset now? We played competitive for 3 quarters on the road at the big house with our coach being gone and a RS freshmen QB against Michigan. I repeat against Michigan. Did you think we had the same talent level as Michigan? Was there something Kill could have done differently. I get you weren't happy with the play calling. Neither was I. Pretty easy to diagram a division 1 college football offense from your couch huh?

What should be done from here on out? You are so unwilling to move on past a loss like Iowa, but have somehow unwillingly looked at recent history when we fired a coach (Mason/Brewster). How about Gopher sports in general. Remember Gopher basketball before Tubby got here. Beats UCLA in the first round of the tournament and we fire him. Lucia has won two national titles. Lost to Yale, who won the whole thing, in the first round and you want him gone.

Let's give our AD a chance to evaluate and see if he can get this practice facility before we start clammering for more firings because of some delusional hope that Dungy/Warmath/Flip Saunders/Herb Brooks will just end up coaching here.

As someone who loves he Gophers, I had to get this off my chest. All this negativity sucks. You guys were complaining this last week about two recruits committing. Why not go after the Wild who spent $200 mil on two players and have done nothing. Or the Vikings who have the reigning MVP and are 1-4. Or the Twins who have lost 90+ the third year in a row. Or the Timber pups for whatever reason they can't win.
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Vikings are 1-3, FWIW...:cool:
 


It is not bandwagon to demand more from your alma mater. I love the Gophers, but it is like if my children bring home poor grades, I do not tell them "great job, you may have gotten 42 wrong, but you got 13 right!" I have higher expectations than 29 point losses. I did not have Rose Bowl delusions this year, but I did expect to beat Iowa and give Michigan a game for 4 quarters.

I realize it was Michigan, but this is not a very good Michigan team and they were ripe for the taking today. We came up 29 points short. I am not and will not be satisfied with hanging with a team for 3 quarters. Do you realize we were as much in this game as New Mexico State was in the game against us? The Aggies actually played us closer! It is a 4 quarter game and in the end got our ass kicked.
 

Another naïve thread started by a fan who is too naïve to see the reality of the situation. Giving credit because an overmatched team competed hard for 3 quarters in year 2.5 of this regime. Moral victories still end up in the L column.

They are overmatched because what will ultimately be the down fall of this coaching staff is recruiting. Even after the staff does get the proper amount of time to turn things around which should be 5 years the recruiting will still be considered the worse in the conference and the AD's choice will be quite simple.
 

All people wanted to see is improvement & progress...

All we've gotten are moral victories...
 

scools12 said:
Another naïve thread started by a fan who is too naïve to see the reality of the situation. Giving credit because an overmatched team competed hard for 3 quarters in year 2.5 of this regime. Moral victories still end up in the L column.

They are overmatched because what will ultimately be the down fall of this coaching staff is recruiting. Even after the staff does get the proper amount of time to turn things around which should be 5 years the recruiting will still be considered the worse in the conference and the AD's choice will be quite simple.
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Bingo, we have a winner. Recruiting to date under Kill has been a disaster. Bottom of the B10. Look at the players we are signing; most have minimal offers from FCS schools. We'll never recruit with the big boys, but I'm of the opinion we have more to sell than 1/2 of the B10 schools and we aren't recruiting at that level. Right now talent wise, we are mid level MAC at best.
 



Patrick's thoughts are the same ones I woke up with this morning.
 

I'm sorry bit how am I naive about the recruiting situation? What bad recruits has he brought in? Certainly Mason had about equally "rated" recruits that he and his staff coached well. That's what Kill does. It's way early to judge his recruits. Let me guess, you thought Brewster was a recruiting genius because his guys were rated with 4 stars. You are basing everything off of rivals ratings. Ridiculous. I'm sure someone else would instantly bring in LSU and Alabama talent without building a program first. It's more naive to think that any coach would just come in here and get SEC level talent.

As far as being critical, that is certainly fair, but the original question was why after you are down about a loss to Iowa are you so upset about losing at Michigan? I am not looking for moral victories either but just because Iowa and Michigan have struggled does not make them garbage teams. They may not be great but they are not New Mexico State quality. We're just not there yet. The Iowa game was a letdown, but after watching the Michigan game are you saying there has been no progress?
 

Yes, I'm saying there has been little progress. I see little reason for optimism going forward. We're at the point of trying to find 1 or 2 conference wins this year.

We continue to get blown out by mediocre B10 teams with no end in sight.

I do look forward to having Leidner/Williams around for a few years. The rest of the lineup you could swap out with pretty much any MAC team and there would be no talent dropoff.
 

LesBolstad said:
Yes, I'm saying there has been little progress. I see little reason for optimism going forward. We're at the point of trying to find 1 or 2 conference wins this year.

We continue to get blown out by mediocre B10 teams with no end in sight.

I do look forward to having Leidner/Williams around for a few years. The rest of the lineup you could swap out with pretty much any MAC team and there would be no talent dropoff.
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And how many of those are his recruits? You are aware this is year 3 for him and he was hired in Dec/Jan.

No progress? Really? This is a team that will lose to B1G teams yes but not South Dakota or New Mexico State. Do you remember those teams?
 



Well, I guess if your definition of success is beating South Dakota and NMSU then you should be happy. I'm looking for a bit more- being competitive on a weekly basis in conference and an occasional upset against a top tier team. That definitely has not been the case to date.

Brewster- 0, 3, 3 conference wins first 3 years.

Kill - 2, 2, <2?

That's not progress
 

Progress on the Game Day Thread would be reading something besides insulting comments, childish cussing and swearing about players and coaches, why this (after the event happened) why that (after the event happened) and numerous arms of chairs worn out because of GH'ers expertise to all things for which they have solutions.

The Coaches work hard, the players play hard, GopherHolers complain hard. I say, don't complain and insult team members unless you, yes you, are willing to go out and help. Are you part of the problem? Or are you willing to be part of the solution. Back up your complaints with action, and not idiot wind.
 

patrick08 said:
You obviously had some misguided Rose Bowl hopes before the season, but why so upset now? We played competitive for 3 quarters on the road at the big house with our coach being gone and a RS freshmen QB against Michigan. I repeat against Michigan. Did you think we had the same talent level as Michigan? Was there something Kill could have done differently. I get you weren't happy with the play calling. Neither was I. Pretty easy to diagram a division 1 college football offense from your couch huh?
Click to expand...

I have said several times that I am not going to suggest Kill can't do his job because of his seizures. However, I am also not going to give him a pass because of them. So I am not going to lower the bar when the coach is not on the sidelines.

Even interim coach Horton managed to beat a 24th ranked Iowa team with a horrendous team that had won only 1 game in half a season before he took over. It is time for Kill to find a way to upset one of the top teams. And I am sick of looking as bad as we did the last two games. When I compare Michigan and Iowa this year to the same two games last year, I really don't see any appreciable improvement.
 

Dr.Don said:
Progress on the Game Day Thread would be reading something besides insulting comments, childish cussing and swearing about players and coaches, why this (after the event happened) why that (after the event happened) and numerous arms of chairs worn out because of GH'ers expertise to all things for which they have solutions.

The Coaches work hard, the players play hard, GopherHolers complain hard. I say, don't complain and insult team members unless you, yes you, are willing to go out and help. Are you part of the problem? Or are you willing to be part of the solution. Back up your complaints with action, and not idiot wind.
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Nobody is name calling here. Just discussing whether or not progress is being made. I say yes. I am with you name calling players or coaches in childish. That's why I started this thread because I was tired of threads where coaches were being called names.
 

when I woke up today, my first thought was we were competitive for half the game... I saw 2 drives where our ol handled their dl... I saw 1 quarter where our dl handled their ol... this is where we need to improve... age/strength wise we are young.. im giving kill and his staff the remainder of this season and next to show me that we can play with the big boys in the dirt... if that doesn't happen then we can talk about a regime change... Mitch is the starting qb from here on out imo, its time to get him some weapons... jones wolitarski and Williams are a great start... now let mitch and them grow.. things are not as bad as they seem around here...
 

patrick08 said:
Nobody is name calling here. Just discussing whether or not progress is being made. I say yes. I am with you name calling players or coaches in childish. That's why I started this thread because I was tired of threads where coaches were being called names.
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the problem on gopherhole about the coach and staff is many have put kill on a pedestal because they like is "aw shucks" personality and they assume he never lies or embellishes the truth. while the kill haters think jerry has always been overmatched and held that bias since he was hired. there are very few who belive there is a middle ground right now.

i thought jerry was an ok hire, not bad and not great. kill is a good coach but i never thought he was going to be able to recruit at a high enough level to get us out of the cellar. he has had some players that look tough, max williams, roderick williams, leidner, wells, and a few others look pretty good. these guys appear to be our high end, schools like wisky, iowa, mich st, are getting our "high end" as their low end recruits. those schools have good coaches too, they also "coach em up" so i dont know how we change our place in the conference with this cycle? unless the hard core kill guys can explain that to me im going to remain skeptical of how this program takes the next level.

kill wont be fired or removed mid-season and i dont think he should be. he is a fighter and will continue to work his butt off. i still would attempt to keep him here to the end of year 5 and then make a decision at that time, no matter the results. but thats just my opinion.
 

LesBolstad said:
Bingo, we have a winner. Recruiting to date under Kill has been a disaster. Bottom of the B10. Look at the players we are signing; most have minimal offers from FCS schools. We'll never recruit with the big boys, but I'm of the opinion we have more to sell than 1/2 of the B10 schools and we aren't recruiting at that level. Right now talent wise, we are mid level MAC at best.
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Like usual, you wrote something that just isn't true.
 

patrick08 said:
Why are you bandwagon Gopher fans, who thought the season was over after the Iowa loss and we wouldn't compete against Michigan, so upset after losing today?
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I'd say the problem is much more so apathy than anger. People are starting to not care because they expect us to get blown out.

You obviously had some misguided Rose Bowl hopes before the season, but why so upset now?
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If I had a dollar for every person on here that predicted 8-9 wins when I was saying 6 would be a huge accomplishment. A lot of those 8-9 win people are now saying "what did you expect? we're rebuilding!"

We played competitive for 3 quarters on the road at the big house with our coach being gone and a RS freshmen QB against Michigan. I repeat against Michigan.
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Neat. We still lost by 20+ points. Again.

Was there something Kill could have done differently.
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Considering he wasn't there? No.

Let's give our AD a chance to evaluate and see if he can get this practice facility before we start clammering for more firings because of some delusional hope that Dungy/Warmath/Flip Saunders/Herb Brooks will just end up coaching here.
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Stupid strawman is stupid.

All this negativity sucks.
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4-14 in the Big Ten with 11 of those losses by two touchdowns or more sucks a lot more.
 

At this point it's hard to evaluate Iowa and Michigan. I predicted 5-7 for the season hoping that Iowa, Indiana or Penn State might be a sixth win. But the Gophers struggled in the non-con season, starting slow and showing almost no passing game, which many of us complained about. On the bright side, the kicking game is much better, Leidner looks like a leader who can pass, but runners are not doing the job and we are near the bottom today in Big Ten stats on receivers, runners, total offense, etc. So some progress, but plenty to worry about. Unless health sidelines him, Kill deserves this year and next to show progress (maybe a year after that), but with a very few exceptions recruiting has not been impressive to date.
 

Back to the original point of why people are upset?

The optimists were saying that the Iowa game was some kind of an aberration, and did not demonstrate the real ability of this year's Gopher team. They said wait till next week, and we'll see the "real" Gopher team show up against Michigan.

Well, we saw the game, and if that's the "real" Gopher team, then the Gophs are in trouble.

I will stipulate that there has been improvement in the program under Kill - but he's going to have to show a lot more improvement in order to demonstrate that he deserves to keep coaching at the major-conference level. And then there's the whole pesky "coach keeps having seizures" issue......
 

patrick08 said:
Why are you bandwagon Gopher fans, who thought the season was over after the Iowa loss and we wouldn't compete against Michigan, so upset after losing today?

You obviously had some misguided Rose Bowl hopes before the season, but why so upset now? We played competitive for 3 quarters on the road at the big house with our coach being gone and a RS freshmen QB against Michigan. I repeat against Michigan. Did you think we had the same talent level as Michigan? Was there something Kill could have done differently. I get you weren't happy with the play calling. Neither was I. Pretty easy to diagram a division 1 college football offense from your couch huh?

What should be done from here on out? You are so unwilling to move on past a loss like Iowa, but have somehow unwillingly looked at recent history when we fired a coach (Mason/Brewster). How about Gopher sports in general. Remember Gopher basketball before Tubby got here. Beats UCLA in the first round of the tournament and we fire him. Lucia has won two national titles. Lost to Yale, who won the whole thing, in the first round and you want him gone.

Let's give our AD a chance to evaluate and see if he can get this practice facility before we start clammering for more firings because of some delusional hope that Dungy/Warmath/Flip Saunders/Herb Brooks will just end up coaching here.

As someone who loves he Gophers, I had to get this off my chest. All this negativity sucks. You guys were complaining this last week about two recruits committing. Why not go after the Wild who spent $200 mil on two players and have done nothing. Or the Vikings who have the reigning MVP and are 1-4. Or the Twins who have lost 90+ the third year in a row. Or the Timber pups for whatever reason they can't win.
Click to expand...

Wait.. A reasonable comment here on GopherHole?!? Wow. Big props to you, patrick!
 

patrick08 said:
Why are you bandwagon Gopher fans, who thought the season was over after the Iowa loss and we wouldn't compete against Michigan, so upset after losing today?

You obviously had some misguided Rose Bowl hopes before the season, but why so upset now? We played competitive for 3 quarters on the road at the big house with our coach being gone and a RS freshmen QB against Michigan. I repeat against Michigan. Did you think we had the same talent level as Michigan? Was there something Kill could have done differently. I get you weren't happy with the play calling. Neither was I. Pretty easy to diagram a division 1 college football offense from your couch huh?

What should be done from here on out? You are so unwilling to move on past a loss like Iowa, but have somehow unwillingly looked at recent history when we fired a coach (Mason/Brewster). How about Gopher sports in general. Remember Gopher basketball before Tubby got here. Beats UCLA in the first round of the tournament and we fire him. Lucia has won two national titles. Lost to Yale, who won the whole thing, in the first round and you want him gone.

Let's give our AD a chance to evaluate and see if he can get this practice facility before we start clammering for more firings because of some delusional hope that Dungy/Warmath/Flip Saunders/Herb Brooks will just end up coaching here.

As someone who loves he Gophers, I had to get this off my chest. All this negativity sucks. You guys were complaining this last week about two recruits committing. Why not go after the Wild who spent $200 mil on two players and have done nothing. Or the Vikings who have the reigning MVP and are 1-4. Or the Twins who have lost 90+ the third year in a row. Or the Timber pups for whatever reason they can't win.
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There are very, very few "bandwagon" fans here on Gopherhole. Your premise right from the start is therefore ridiculous.
 

cncmin said:
There are very, very few "bandwagon" fans here on Gopherhole. Your premise right from the start is therefore ridiculous.
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Also, this. A bandwagon would necessitate actual success. Anyone that still gives a *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# about this team is a diehard.
 

Look, this turn around is not going to be easy as Brewster left the cupboard bare. It will take longer, and IMHO it is going to take this season, and all of next season barring the coaches' health and key injuries to players. It is looking like a 4-8 to 6-6 season right now.

Don't abandon ship yet.
 

Gopherprof said:
Also, this. A bandwagon would necessitate actual success. Anyone that still gives a *&^!#*&^!#*&^!#*&^!# about this team is a diehard.
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He's not talking about the bandwagon of 'success'. He's talking about the bandwagon of failure.
 


LesBolstad said:
Bingo, we have a winner. Recruiting to date under Kill has been a disaster. Bottom of the B10. Look at the players we are signing; most have minimal offers from FCS schools. We'll never recruit with the big boys, but I'm of the opinion we have more to sell than 1/2 of the B10 schools and we aren't recruiting at that level. Right now talent wise, we are mid level MAC at best.
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So what are the favorable characteristics of the UM that meet the needs of top recruits? If you were a recruiter for the Gophers what what you be selling to them? If you were a recruiter for UW or UI competing for a Gopher recruit, what would you sell as your school's features v recruits' needs and how would you contrast that with UM? Can general recruiting work in the competitive market of college sports? Or does a school have to have a niche that it fills with recruits for whom that niche is important? Seems we all wish for better recruiting but I don't see discussions about how that can be done. And forget hiring some hot coach to wave the magic recruiting wand. Recruiting that type of coach would be even harder than recruiting top athletes. What should Kill and his staff sell?
 

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