Non Revenue Generating Sports

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Taji34 said:
You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about, and it shows. So called "Olympic sports" largely not regional in how they compete. There might be a Conference Championship at the end of the season, and a Conference Champion may be crowned each year, but they are not competing head to head throughout the season like non-olympic sports do.

For example, here is the Men's Track and Field Schedule for this year:

Mar 2, Longhorn Invite (Outdoor), Austin, TX
Mar 15, Hurricane Invite, Coral Gables, FL
Mar 22, Clyde Hart Classic, Waco, TX
Mar 28, Raleigh Relays, Raleigh, NC
Apr 5, 44 Farms Team Invite, College Station, TX
Apr 5, Triton Classic, La Jolla, CA
Apr 6, Hamline Invite, St. Paul, MN
Apr 13, Bethel Invite, St. Paul, MN
Apr 17, Running On Hope Invite, Minneapolis, MN
Apr 18, Mt. SAC Relays/Brian Clay Invite, Torrance, CA
Apr 20, Alumni Gold, Baton Rouge, LA
Apr 20, Holst Invite, St. Paul, MN
Apr 24, Gary Wilson Invitational, Minneapolis, MN
Apr 25, Macalester College 5000m Invite, St. Paul, MN
Apr 25, Drake Relays, Des Moines, IA
Apr 27, Desert Heat , Tucson, AZ
Apr 27, Rider/Bolstorff Invite, St. Paul, MN
May 10, Big Ten Outdoor Championships, Ann Arbor, MI
May 22, NCAA West Regional, Fayetteville, AR
Jun 5, NCAA Outdoor Championships, Eugene, OR

So that's trips to Texas, Florida, North Carolina, California, Louisiana, Iowa, Arizona, Michigan, Arkansas, and Oregon for the Men's Track and Field team, all before any of the conference realignment stuff goes into affect. Albeit, not every invite has every sport, so it isn't the full track and field team traveling to every single one of these meets.

How about you actually look up the sports and how their scheduling works before you make claims about how they are effected by the conference realignment.
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The U does not and should not participate in much of the schedule listed. Only top contenders in certain events would travel to many of the most distant meets. It cost almost nothing for the entire team to participate in the local events and those meets within a several hours by bus such as IA, Wi, Drake Relays, Northwestern.
 

proudgopher said:
The U does not and should not participate in much of the schedule listed. Only top contenders in certain events would travel to many of the most distant meets. It cost almost nothing for the entire team to participate in the local events and those meets within a several hours by bus such as IA, Wi, Drake Relays, Northwestern.
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Sure, I'm just pointing out that the conference realignment isn't suddenly causing these non-revenue sports to travel across the country for meets/competitions, as they have already been doing that. The notion of what conference you are a part of is not really a factor in scheduling for these sports because of the way they compete.

We can argue/discuss whether these sports should be traveling like this in the first place or if there are better ways to handle it, but that's a separate from the claim I was refuting in the post I quoted.
 

SHGopher said:
Nationally, women's NCAA Basketball is red hot. Ratings for the women's tournament were better than the men tournament. Some of that is the Caitlin Clark effect.
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The bolded is not true, but the rest of your post is great.

Men had record low ratings and Women had record highs this year, but there were still substantially more viewers for the Men’s tournament.
 




Out State Gopher said:
The 3.5 million dollar loss could have been used for Football assistants salaries, NIL and or lowering of college tuition. Throwing good money down a hole makes no sense. If a program can not generate the funding thru revenue or fundraising then like Mr. Wonderful says "take it behind the barn and shoot it". If non generating sports went away would anyone notice or care?
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With the new tv contracts, there is no money issue for mn.
 

Iceland12 said:
Here is a listing of the Top 500 most profitable College Sports. At least by this site. If it doesn't give you the Top 500 right away there is a dropbox were you can extend the number to that. Some surprises on here and no, don't know their methodology. Gotta go down to 62 to find a program that isn't football or basketball.

Cue the "it's not right because it doesn't say what I want it to say!" 😇

Rankings | Most profitable college sports programs

Wondering where a school ranks in the US? College Raptor has college rankings for 2024 in over 20 different categories. Check out all our 2024 rankings here!
www.collegeraptor.com www.collegeraptor.com
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So we’re at 21 & 75? Someone has got to explain this I’m a bit confused.
 

proudgopher said:
The U does not and should not participate in much of the schedule listed. Only top contenders in certain events would travel to many of the most distant meets. It cost almost nothing for the entire team to participate in the local events and those meets within a several hours by bus such as IA, Wi, Drake Relays, Northwestern.
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I guess track & field was one of the worst possible examples.

Naturally, obviously, goes without saying, conference realignment can only possibly pertain to conference matches/games/meets. Not non-conference.

But track's schedule looks like ... almost entirely non-conference?? Other than the end of the season Big Ten championship ... there really seems to be no semblance of even being in a conference??

That's bizarre to me. I figured there would be like a meet between Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, and Nebraska. I guess that's just not how track works.

So in that one, very specific example, it really doesn't matter quite as much.


For teams like soccer, volleyball, softball, quite obviously it matters a great deal if now Stanford has to go to the Atlantic coach for conference games.

Because of football.
 



MplsGopher said:
I guess track & field was one of the worst possible examples.

Naturally, obviously, goes without saying, conference realignment can only possibly pertain to conference matches/games/meets. Not non-conference.

But track's schedule looks like ... almost entirely non-conference?? Other than the end of the season Big Ten championship ... there really seems to be no semblance of even being in a conference??

That's bizarre to me. I figured there would be like a meet between Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, and Nebraska. I guess that's just not how track works.

So in that one, very specific example, it really doesn't matter quite as much.


For teams like soccer, volleyball, softball, quite obviously it matters a great deal if now Stanford has to go to the Atlantic coach for conference games.

Because of football.
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Golf works pretty much the same way as track & field, as far as scheduling. A collection of meets/tournaments (split in the Fall & Spring) not necessarily involving other teams in the conference, until the Big 10 Tournament. Can also be a conference Match Play event.

I would guess wrestling, gymnastics & swimming could be similar.
 

Ope3 said:
Golf works pretty much the same way as track & field, as far as scheduling. A collection of meets/tournaments (split in the Fall & Spring) not necessarily involving other teams in the conference, until the Big 10 Tournament. Can also be a conference Match Play event.

I would guess wrestling, gymnastics & swimming could be similar.
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Don't know anything about gym and swim, but wrestling is a bunch of dual meets between conference teams. So the opposite
 

MplsGopher said:
Don't know anything about gym and swim, but wrestling is a bunch of dual meets between conference teams. So the opposite
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Sure, you can have a bunch of dual meets (or tri or quad) for wrestling against conference foes, but they don't have to as long as there is a Conference meet at the end of the season.
 

That’s just saying wrestling doesn’t have to be a sport. Dual meets in conference is how it’s been and how it will be. If you’re in the conference, you will be scheduled against every other team (or a lot of them) in dual meet formats.

Wrestling is not the problem. If Stanford or Cal even have teams (don’t know), I doubt the ACC sponsors it so they can easily go to the catch-all Big XII.


Seems everyone trying hard to pretend that it’s not at all a big deal are purposely avoiding non-revenue sports like soccer, softball, volleyball. No possible way to avoid those absurd long trips.

Because of football.
 



The very very very obvious and correct solution to all this is:

The mega, cross-country “conferences” should only be for football.


All other sports should have separate conferences with a member cap of 10 and be regional.
 

MplsGopher said:
I guess track & field was one of the worst possible examples.

Naturally, obviously, goes without saying, conference realignment can only possibly pertain to conference matches/games/meets. Not non-conference.

But track's schedule looks like ... almost entirely non-conference?? Other than the end of the season Big Ten championship ... there really seems to be no semblance of even being in a conference??

That's bizarre to me. I figured there would be like a meet between Minnesota, Iowa, Wisconsin, and Nebraska. I guess that's just not how track works.

So in that one, very specific example, it really doesn't matter quite as much.


For teams like soccer, volleyball, softball, quite obviously it matters a great deal if now Stanford has to go to the Atlantic coach for conference games.

Because of football.
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So you spilled hundreds...thousands of words authoritatively staking out a ridiculous position and then lecturing us relentlessly on a subject it turns out you literally know nothing about. Not even basic shit.

Wow. That's SO unlike you!!
 

MplsGopher said:
The very very very obvious and correct solution to all this is:

The mega, cross-country “conferences” should only be for football.


All other sports should have separate conferences with a member cap of 10 and be regional.
Click to expand...
Honestly, this might be the smartest thing you've ever posted here.
 

MplsGopher said:
That’s just saying wrestling doesn’t have to be a sport. Dual meets in conference is how it’s been and how it will be. If you’re in the conference, you will be scheduled against every other team (or a lot of them) in dual meet formats.

Wrestling is not the problem. If Stanford or Cal even have teams (don’t know), I doubt the ACC sponsors it so they can easily go to the catch-all Big XII.


Seems everyone trying hard to pretend that it’s not at all a big deal are purposely avoiding non-revenue sports like soccer, softball, volleyball. No possible way to avoid those absurd long trips.

Because of football.
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I was in no way saying wrestling doesn't have to be a sport, but a Conference schedule could easily be cobbled together by having a 3-4 or Tri/Quads (with exclusively Big 10 teams) along with a few duals here or there.

Regardless accommodating the 4 new PAC 12 schools for wrestling is a moot point. None of the New 4 (USC/UCLA/Ore/Wash) sponsor wrestling anyway.

Sorry for wasting everyone's time.
 


NextYear_76 said:
. No sense forcing ice hockey where it is not wanted.
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If you did this it would be North Dakota and MAYBE MN, MN St. and St. Cloud. That's it. Literally hockey has much less interest nationally than womens bball, softball, etc.
 

MplsGopher said:
Here's the thing:

lot of these sports are relatively very cheap. Track and field? If you've got a nice stadium, which we just built a brand new one, then your costs are almost nothing. Shoes, mainly.

You just need a good training facility and you're set.

Same exact thing with swiming & diving. We already have a top notch Aquatic Center and that's not changing. So it only costs you ... swim suits, caps, goggles, at that point. Peanuts.
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This is so just not true. Travel, coaching salaries, trainers, strength and conditioning, etc. It costs plenty to run any college program.
Do you think track brings in any revenue? I would guess they bring in under 10k per year. Probably even less.
 

disco said:
Wisconsin dropped baseball years ago too. Realistically, it's tough for northern schools to field baseball teams. The season is short and the weather makes it difficult. The U has a better situation than most since US Bank was built in a way to accomodate early season college baseball.
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Baseball and softball also have tons of travel. They are on a plane every weekend until at least April.
 

Go Gophs said:
If you did this it would be North Dakota and MAYBE MN, MN St. and St. Cloud. That's it. Literally hockey has much less interest nationally than womens bball, softball, etc.
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It goes deeper than that. I would suspect any of these teams in the Top 20 for attendance at least can make a buck on puck, especially the others in the Top 5 (Wisconsin, Boston College & Neb-Omaha).

www.uscho.com

Men's Division I Hockey 2023-2024 Attendance | Statistics - College Hockey | USCHO.com

Statistics Mens and Womens College Hockey Scoring, Goals, Assists, Goaltending Leaders, Player Stats, Conferences Stats, Team Stats, Rosters, Statistics
www.uscho.com www.uscho.com

Maine I am sure in their heyday was quite profitable. Still respectable at #15.
 

Ope3 said:
It goes deeper than that. I would suspect any of these teams in the Top 20 for attendance at least can make a buck on puck, especially the others in the Top 5 (Wisconsin, Boston College & Neb-Omaha).

www.uscho.com

Men's Division I Hockey 2023-2024 Attendance | Statistics - College Hockey | USCHO.com

Statistics Mens and Womens College Hockey Scoring, Goals, Assists, Goaltending Leaders, Player Stats, Conferences Stats, Team Stats, Rosters, Statistics
www.uscho.com www.uscho.com

Maine I am sure in their heyday was quite profitable. Still respectable at #15.
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It's possible and I am not backing this up with any facts and I will concede that. I just know that whenever there is a regional or frozen four out east there are like 100-200 people in the stands even when it's being played in some of the team's backyards.
 

Iceland12 said:
Here is a listing of the Top 500 most profitable College Sports. At least by this site. If it doesn't give you the Top 500 right away there is a dropbox were you can extend the number to that. Some surprises on here and no, don't know their methodology. Gotta go down to 62 to find a program that isn't football or basketball.

Cue the "it's not right because it doesn't say what I want it to say!" 😇

Rankings | Most profitable college sports programs

Wondering where a school ranks in the US? College Raptor has college rankings for 2024 in over 20 different categories. Check out all our 2024 rankings here!
www.collegeraptor.com www.collegeraptor.com
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West Virginia is an interesting school..
 

Go Gophs said:
It's possible and I am not backing this up with any facts and I will concede that. I just know that whenever there is a regional or frozen four out east there are like 100-200 people in the stands even when it's being played in some of the team's backyards.
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Probably more of a driving factor is what kind of TV/Media revenue a program can generate.

The schools in and around Denver, Omaha, Twin Cities, Milwaukee, Detroit & Boston all have the opportunity to fill a programming need that can bring some dollars in. Maybe even Phoenix.
 

Ope3 said:
It goes deeper than that. I would suspect any of these teams in the Top 20 for attendance at least can make a buck on puck, especially the others in the Top 5 (Wisconsin, Boston College & Neb-Omaha).

www.uscho.com

Men's Division I Hockey 2023-2024 Attendance | Statistics - College Hockey | USCHO.com

Statistics Mens and Womens College Hockey Scoring, Goals, Assists, Goaltending Leaders, Player Stats, Conferences Stats, Team Stats, Rosters, Statistics
www.uscho.com www.uscho.com

Maine I am sure in their heyday was quite profitable. Still respectable at #15.
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Depends on prices though too. I'm guessing some of these schools that have ok attendance have pretty cheap ticket prices. The Gophers, North Dakota, and Wisconsin probably have the highest prices.
 

Word said:
Depends on prices though too. I'm guessing some of these schools that have ok attendance have pretty cheap ticket prices. The Gophers, North Dakota, and Wisconsin probably have the highest prices.
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Certainly a factor (along with the TV revenue potential that I mentioned).

Also by "making a buck" I meant that quite literally, as in at "least break even." Anything over $100,000, huge bonus.
 

Non-revenue sports lost ~$29M in 2019. That is an amazing number. This may be a dumb question but why is the volleyball coach earning ~675K. The two assistants split ~250k . Is there a hot/competitive market for volleyball coaches? I don’t know **** about **** here, genuinely curious what drives these numbers given the generally comparatively low academic professor salaries. Thats market rate? Football pays the bills, certainly defensible to spend there.




 

Pompous Elitist said:
Non-revenue sports lost ~$29M in 2019. That is an amazing number. This may be a dumb question but why is the volleyball coach earning ~675K. The two assistants split ~250k . Is there a hot/competitive market for volleyball coaches? I don’t know **** about **** here, genuinely curious what drives these numbers given the generally comparatively low academic professor salaries. Thats market rate? Football pays the bills, certainly defensible to spend there.




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Hugh McCutcheon was basically the Coach K / Saban of the Volleyball world. He coached the Men’s and Women’s National Team and consistently brought in top talent during his tenure just because of his name and connections.
 

This really has nothing to do with the original intent of the topic, probably the opposite intent actually, but I’d love to see Lacrosse added to both the Women’s and Men’s side.

No offense to the rowing community, but there is far more growing youth and high school interest in Lacrosse in this state. I don’t get what a rowing team does for a University in this area where club and HS rowing is basically non-existent.

With a daughter and multiple nieces who plays lacrosse, I’d love to see some real opportunities in this state.
 

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