No improvement from Otto, King, Mo!

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GopherJake said:
Legitimate question.

Oto: Continue to make good decisions on when to shoot the ball and make some shots. Use his length to be disruptive on defense, especially in the press. Use his improving ball-handling game to help push the ball up the floor. Defend the three point line.

JK: Rebound better, hit some three pointers and hustle, hustle, hustle. I think he can and will improve.

Mo: Rebound. Rebound and rebound. Learn that when he is triple teamed to move the ball back out of the post. Be more decisive when he gets the ball in good position in the low post. Be more available for dish-and-drive dump-offs from Mathieu. Defend better without fouling.

As I said, I am most worried about Mo. Part of that is that I didn't expect anything from Oto - and he has been a pleasant surprise - and knew pretty much nothing of King. Mo is in his 4th year in the program and everyone was soooooo excited to get him back - some even thinking he would overtake EE. Well, safe to say, we are a long way from that.
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Nice response, agree wholeheartedly
 

Everyone has a right to their opinion, but like free speech we all have the right to be ridiculed for the dumb statements, failed predictions and all of us, especially me, spew on this board from time to time.
 

I had a chance to watch the game this morning and Oto played really hard. I know not everybody has the time/interest to do it, but when you watch a game where you already know the outcome it's a lot easier to focus on things outside of whether the ball is going in the basket. Oto was really going hard to the boards (both offensively and defensively), he just had little to show for it. That doesn't get to the issue of whether he's improved or not, but it's very clear why he's the starting "power forward" for this team. I do think he's shooting the ball better, largely due to the fact that he's not worried about missing and just taking his shot in rhythm.

It will be interesting to see if Mo Walker can be an effective player at his new weight. He certainly moves much better on defense (check him out in the first half where he gets in a nice stance and moves his feet at the top of the key...never would have been capable of that before), but his bulk allowed him to be somewhat effective in the post on offense. Now that he's lost the weight, he still has no lift and was getting swatted by much smaller players.

Joey has been going through a rough stretch, but I hope he can have a game or two where he's 5-7 from 3 and is big reason why the Gophers "steal" a game that on paper most of us thought would be an L. Joey appears noticeably less athletic than Oto, and I am not sure his finesse moves inside are going to work at the high major level.

An enormous problem with our team is our 4 main bigs can't dunk. I can't count how many times Elliott/Mo/Joey/Oto has gotten the ball in a position to go up and dunk it (and possibly get an and one) and the end result is a missed shot or turnover. These are plays that B1G 4's and 5's need to make (Arriel McDonald smartly pointed it out on the broadcast) and our guys are just not gifted enough to make them. Obviously, Elliott is a very valuable player despite this deficiency, but it's tough when all four of our guy are deficient in this area.
 

Too bad in this case he wasnt wrong. Oto is a waste of floor time. Saying he is vastly improved does not say much for him considering he was so bad last year. All you need to do is llok at his face when he plays. Clueless. King is decent, but im not sure why everyone one is in love with him. Needs to cut down on stupid mistakes.

bemidjigopher said:
Everyone has a right to their opinion, but like free speech we all have the right to be ridiculed for the dumb statements, failed predictions and all of us, especially me, spew on this board from time to time.
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GoldenUMNGopher said:
Too bad in this case he wasnt wrong. Oto is a waste of floor time. Saying he is vastly improved does not say much for him considering he was so bad last year. All you need to do is llok at his face when he plays. Clueless. King is decent, but im not sure why everyone one is in love with him. Needs to cut down on stupid mistakes.
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Tell me how you would like to fill those minutes?

My point earlier questioning what we all want out of Oto is from the standpoint of what else do we have? You can beat your head against the wall all day long on this subject, but at the end of the day, the wall ain't moving! We have 3 "Posts" that shouldn't be B1G 10 Posts, and we are going to have those same 3 posts next year too (fortunately it looks like we might have someone coming in to take about 20 or so minutes in Josh Martin next year as help).

HAD WE GOTTEN Buckles, this would be a lot more worthwhile conversation in saying he should play 40 minutes a game, but we didnt.

Fact is, between those 4 guys we need to fill at a minimum 70 minutes of game time as I don't think Austin Hollins at the 4 is going to be viable for more than 10 minutes a game. So with EE playing about 30 thats 40 minutes of the 4 and 5 needed to be filled by Oto, Mo, King and Buggs, it's not going to be pretty from a pie in the sky perspective, but if we don't expect elite level production they will be serviceable.

A good coach game plans for the obvious and tries to hide those deficiencies. I think Richard will have a very difficult time doing that on nights we are not shooting well and cannot set up the press. When a team has 30 seconds to dissect our undersized bigs, we are in trouble. But if the shot is falling and we eat up 10-15 seconds bringing the ball down the court and setting up the offense we should be able to play ball.
 

We needed Buckles, we don't get him, now we move on. Is Oto a starting pf on an ncaa tourney team, I hope so. Would he or king start in a perfect world...no. You have to play the hand you are dealt. We are hoping they can be stretch 4's, yet Oto is hitting 29% on 3's, and King 27%. I think Oto is improving on his shooting and I think King is in a shooting slump as he seems to have a good shot. Oto is better at rebounding and defense thus he plays unless king starts hitting 40% on 3's anytime soon.
I am afraid Mo, who is trying, just doesnt have the athleticsm or demeanor to dominate. He is servicable. His lack of fire reminds me of RSIII. We need MO to step up!
 

About the only thing I can say for sure this early is that Mo is less effective at holding the bench down after losing all that weight.
 

I think we knew going in that the 4 would be this team's weakness and that is exactly what has played itself out. Hopefully with a year in Pitino's system, we will see improvement from the current players and/or better depth at the position from the recruits coming in (Martin/pending).
 



golfing18now said:
I think we knew going in that the 4 would be this team's weakness and that is exactly what has played itself out. Hopefully with a year in Pitino's system, we will see improvement from the current players and/or better depth at the position from the recruits coming in (Martin/pending).
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Thats the point of my frustration on this subject.

When Pitino was hired and even before that we all looked at the depth chart and said WOAH what the hell are we going to do at the 4 and somewhat at the 5. Foster wasn't the answer, and when we lost him we were even in a tougher situation. We missed on Buckles and numerous other transfer candidates and we got what we got. Saying that Oto and King are not B1G Caliber 4's is like saying Minnesota is not a good cruise ship destination, you don't need an IQ of 10 to figure this stuff out guys.

Are Oto and Joey doing what we had expected them to do? I would guess yes and no. Oto has yet to be a reason for us to lose a game (yes) and Joey has not shot the ball well (no). That is where the conversation should start and stop.
 

GoldenUMNGopher said:
Too bad in this case he wasnt wrong. Oto is a waste of floor time. Saying he is vastly improved does not say much for him considering he was so bad last year. All you need to do is llok at his face when he plays. Clueless. King is decent, but im not sure why everyone one is in love with him. Needs to cut down on stupid mistakes.
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You don't understand basketball very well.
 

tikited said:
You don't understand basketball very well.
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Oto is a bad player who has improved from a terrible player. He's a decent back up at this point, which is actually saying something very positive from where he was. He has no business starting for a team with high aspirations.
 

Gopherguy0723 said:
Oto is a bad player who has improved from a terrible player. He's a decent back up at this point, which is actually saying something very positive from where he was. He has no business starting for a team with high aspirations.
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So "bad players" make "decent back ups?"

Ron-Burgundy-That-Doesnt-Make-Any-Sense.gif
 



I find it especially ignorant when folks complain about players that are put into position where they are the best of a less-than-ideal situation. I have a friend that hates Maverick, but loves the coach who recruited him, signed him and gave him extended minutes. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
 

Gopherguy0723 said:
Oto is a bad player who has improved from a terrible player. He's a decent back up at this point, which is actually saying something very positive from where he was. He has no business starting for a team with high aspirations.
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And your solution for right now is?
 

GopherJake said:
I find it especially ignorant when folks complain about players that are put into position where they are the best of a less-than-ideal situation. I have a friend that hates Maverick, but loves the coach who recruited him, signed him and gave him extended minutes. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
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tikited said:
And your solution for right now is?
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Pardon me while I toot my own horn (maybe prematurely) in conjunction with tooting your horns as well

I know this is an issue in every message board, but when you get these idiots that jump on the bandwagon or join the site and just post GARBAGE opinions for the sake of posting just pisses me off. The only guys in this thread that have a clue seem to have more than 1,000 posts (no offense to anyone with less that gets it, but your the minority in that group). It's like beating your head against a damn wall with this topic. We don't have a better option, Oto and Joey are doing what we've asked them to do.
 

That's a pretty ridiculous concept Winasota. One of my biggest pet peeves is when some of the regulars 'beat their chests' and try to regulate GH for the content and discussions that only they want to be a part of. There is a simple solution, and that is to stop navigating into threads you don't want to be a part of. I get annoyed with topics often too, but I go to a topic I care about instead of whining and presenting the same counter argument to the OP. No one will remember this thread after, say, 7 minutes from the last post... So buck up and take an emotional loss for the team if you want this particular thread to end.

As a response to your horn tooting, I actually look at those with over 1000 posts and take their opinions with an additional grain of salt :) it takes a special kind of person to show that type of commitment to a site full of GARBAGE posters.

Anyways, I've been reading for over a year (maybe two now?) but have one post, so with what subjective lens are you going to read this post?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

tikited said:
And your solution for right now is?
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There isn't an immediate solution, and I wasn't providing one. The Gophers will have to roll with bad starters at the PF position this season. That's not the players' fault, and I don't blame Oto and King. But that doesn't mean they're good players. They're bad players. Neither should play big time minutes. They're back-up D1 players who are forced into roles they shouldn't be in due to poor recruiting.
 

Gopherguy0723 said:
There isn't an immediate solution, and I wasn't providing one. The Gophers will have to roll with bad starters at the PF position this season. That's not the players' fault, and I don't blame Oto and King. But that doesn't mean they're good players. They're bad players. Neither should play big time minutes. They're back-up D1 players who are forced into roles they shouldn't be in due to poor recruiting.
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Bad is a little harsh. Average or mediocre might be better.
 


Ripping on Oto and king for not being great athletic players reminds me of a former coach who tired to throw the Hoff under the bus for his lack of pg skills and quickness. LOL
 

Winasota Gopher said:
Pardon me while I toot my own horn (maybe prematurely) in conjunction with tooting your horns as well

I know this is an issue in every message board, but when you get these idiots that jump on the bandwagon or join the site and just post GARBAGE opinions for the sake of posting just pisses me off. The only guys in this thread that have a clue seem to have more than 1,000 posts (no offense to anyone with less that gets it, but your the minority in that group). It's like beating your head against a damn wall with this topic. We don't have a better option, Oto and Joey are doing what we've asked them to do.
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Or we have lives....
 

march madness said:
Ripping on Oto and king for not being great athletic players reminds me of a former coach who tired to throw the Hoff under the bus for his lack of pg skills and quickness. LOL
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Is that the same former coach under whose tutelage fan favorite Hoff developed into a fine B1G player and has nothing but good things to say about? That sounds like another one of the myths generated on the board during the hatefeast. Time to move on.
 

Ski U Mah Gopher said:
Bad is a little harsh. Average or mediocre might be better.
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He's a bad starter, but he would be a mediocre back up. I wouldn't consider him an average starter.

He's definitely improved, and I now believe he belongs on a D1 team. However, he should only start for low D1 teams.
 

bc2211 said:
That's a pretty ridiculous concept Winasota. One of my biggest pet peeves is when some of the regulars 'beat their chests' and try to regulate GH for the content and discussions that only they want to be a part of. There is a simple solution, and that is to stop navigating into threads you don't want to be a part of. I get annoyed with topics often too, but I go to a topic I care about instead of whining and presenting the same counter argument to the OP. No one will remember this thread after, say, 7 minutes from the last post... So buck up and take an emotional loss for the team if you want this particular thread to end.

As a response to your horn tooting, I actually look at those with over 1000 posts and take their opinions with an additional grain of salt :) it takes a special kind of person to show that type of commitment to a site full of GARBAGE posters.

Anyways, I've been reading for over a year (maybe two now?) but have one post, so with what subjective lens are you going to read this post?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Very well said and true, however, I wasn't and never look at someones post count and then base my opinion on whether or not the guy's argument holds water. I made a comment which was mostly out of frustration due to someone suggesting someone should play less and then provide absolutely no answer as to who should play for him or why. I don't think I'm saying don't have an opinion, or don't disagree with me, I'm asking someone to give an answer to the question that's been posed 1,000 times. If not Oto, then who?

When you look back at the post counts and join dates, its guys that:

a. Joined because they loved the tubby hire (I'M ONE OF THEM!)
b. Joined because they hated the Tubby firing and will piss on anything happening in the now
c. Joined because Pitino is the new kid on the block

that post the most idiotic stuff on the site all the time. Or at least thats how my 10 second study made it look!

All the guys that were here since before Tubby seem to have a much better grasp that programs are neither built or destroyed in 12 games. And its nice having discussions with THOSE GUYS (which based on your response you very well may be one of them despite my prior condition of having to have 1000 posts to qualify!).

topos said:
Or we have lives....
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Classic.
All I do all day is check this board and I'm proud of it buddy :cool:
 

Oto is way better than last year, even though that's not saying too much. Honestly it's tough to expect too much from him. Mo still seems a step behind, but keep in mind he's missed a TON of games. King is the one that frustrates me because I think he could be a big contributor. He can shoot, he's very scrappy, decent rebounder and he hustles. I'm really hoping his shot comes around and that he can avoid foul trouble. This is the hand we are dealt and someone needs to step up.
 

Winasota Gopher said:
Pardon me while I toot my own horn (maybe prematurely) in conjunction with tooting your horns as well

I know this is an issue in every message board, but when you get these idiots that jump on the bandwagon or join the site and just post GARBAGE opinions for the sake of posting just pisses me off. The only guys in this thread that have a clue seem to have more than 1,000 posts (no offense to anyone with less that gets it, but your the minority in that group). It's like beating your head against a damn wall with this topic. We don't have a better option, Oto and Joey are doing what we've asked them to do.
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I think the number is 1200 posts in order to garner any respect. You're not there yet.
 

WARNING: I'm an "under 1000 total posts" poster and I joined shortly after Pitino was hired, so that is two strikes against me. With that caveat.....

Oto/King/Mo were probably considered roughly our sixth, seventh, and eighth best players (very subjective) going into the year and that is about where it looks like they have been performing. No need to bash these players as they are performing at about a reasonable expectation.

This team will get as far as its guard play will take it. The front line will need to be addressed in recruiting.
 

bc2211 said:
That's a pretty ridiculous concept Winasota. One of my biggest pet peeves is when some of the regulars 'beat their chests' and try to regulate GH for the content and discussions that only they want to be a part of. There is a simple solution, and that is to stop navigating into threads you don't want to be a part of. I get annoyed with topics often too, but I go to a topic I care about instead of whining and presenting the same counter argument to the OP. No one will remember this thread after, say, 7 minutes from the last post... So buck up and take an emotional loss for the team if you want this particular thread to end.

As a response to your horn tooting, I actually look at those with over 1000 posts and take their opinions with an additional grain of salt :) it takes a special kind of person to show that type of commitment to a site full of GARBAGE posters.

Anyways, I've been reading for over a year (maybe two now?) but have one post, so with what subjective lens are you going to read this post?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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No offense but I've been reading and posting about as long as you've been reading this site, the only difference is I take an extra five seconds to post a comment. You're either a hypocrite as you seem to be a regular reader here, or you're afraid to express your opinion. Anyways us regulars will take your opinion with a grain of salt.
 

bemidjigopher said:
golfing18now said:
WARNING: I'm an "under 1000 total posts" poster and I joined shortly after Pitino was hired, so that is two strikes against me. With that caveat.....

Oto/King/Mo were probably considered roughly our sixth, seventh, and eighth best players (very subjective) going into the year and that is about where it looks like they have been performing. No need to bash these players as they are performing at about a reasonable expectation.

This team will get as far as its guard play will take it. The front line will need to be addressed in recruiting.
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No offense but I've been reading and posting about as long as you've been reading this site, the only difference is I take an extra five seconds to post a comment. You're either a hypocrite as you seem to be a regular reader here, or you're afraid to express your opinion. Anyways us regulars will take your opinion with a grain of salt.
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And I now regret that post 100%!

No need to incite a post count war. How f'ing lame is it that I just typed that!

Quite certain that the majority of the comments were made tongue in cheek about taking posts with a grain of salt etc.
 

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