No gophers invited to the NFL Combine

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RodentRampage said:
And if you tell people how fantastic they are, they coast. Jerry Kill has done no disservice. After Brewster, Kill would have been torn to shreds if he had raved about the fantastic talent level, and that is no good for the team.

Which house gets sold faster? If you gush over how fantastic the house is, people will look at it,
and see every flaw that you didn't mention, and they aren't going to trust anything you say about
the house.
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Coast? That's a mighty big unsubstantiated negative assumption to be making. Prey tell how you arrived at that please?

If you get them in to view the house at least it has a chance. The fact of the matter is the majority of the weak spots for last years team will be playing on this years team. This team had to rely on inexperienced players (most I believe will get better). You are extremely naive if you believe coach was only telling the truth. He was "working" the system to the detriment of the seniors and his benefit and I take issue with that.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
Coast? That's a mighty big unsubstantiated negative assumption to be making. Prey tell how you arrived at that please?
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No bigger than yours was. But if you tell people how great they are, they often don't feel any need to push to do better.
 


Sportsfan24 said:
No assumptions on my part. I talking about what I know to be true.
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Yes, you are making assumptions. While some people might give up if they aren't constantly told how great they are, other people do in fact kick back and relax if they are constantly told how great they are.

If you're correct, then drill sergeants are doing it all wrong...
 

I think you guys are arguing different points.

Sportsfan24 is saying that Kill's constant downplaying of the talent on his team has hurt the Senior's chances of being invited to these kinds of things.

Rodent is arguing that Kill's constant downplaying of the talent on his team will motivate to make the future players better.

They both can be true.

Personally, I think some of the downplaying of talent by Kill was too much. I think it was partially self-serving and partially for the future of the program. I think that Kill wanted to create a situation where he was given some patience by the Gopher fan base, and to really play up the "mess" he inherited would help. I also think it helped to sell playing time.

That said, that "inherited mess" is a group of Gopher football players who worked hard and bled Maroon and Gold.
 


Sportsfan24 said:
You guys are flawed in your thinking. McKnight will run faster than someone who is drafted.

Brew also had a "slow" Barber get a combine invite. At the risk of repeating myself, the current coaching staff did a huge disservice to this group of seniors. It's one thing to coach to the future but quite another to do what they did. Again....if you tell anyone who is listening that you have no talent....folks might actually believe you. Especially when other coaches are going to the opposite extreme.

It's all self serving; coaches who over sold their players were doing so recruits could see they have an opportunity to get to the league (in some cases...surprise...they actually were looking out for their players) The coaches who under sold, did so for extensions (pay checks) and more time to turn the program around.

Take two pictures of the same house and but them in a real-estate magazine at the same for sale price. Under one, talk about how wonderful the home is. Under the other talk about how god awful it is. Which one do you think will get more showings and purchased first?

Player evaulations at the start of the season (players who are already one the radar) or not as scientific has one would believe. It's nothing more than players who are hyped. Part-time scouts from organizations contracted by the NFL wondering around college campuses talking to coaches, reading preseason publications and watching film. There are some good (who hope to become a team scout) ones who actually are able to form their own evaluation and there are some bad ones who just read the publications and are easily influenced by the coaches.
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This is one of the dumbest posts I've ever read on this board. Jerry Kill's fault? Get a clue.
 

Bob_Loblaw said:
I think you guys are arguing different points.

Sportsfan24 is saying that Kill's constant downplaying of the talent on his team has hurt the Senior's chances of being invited to these kinds of things.

Rodent is arguing that Kill's constant downplaying of the talent on his team will motivate to make the future players better.

They both can be true.

Personally, I think some of the downplaying of talent by Kill was too much. I think it was partially self-serving and partially for the future of the program. I think that Kill wanted to create a situation where he was given some patience by the Gopher fan base, and to really play up the "mess" he inherited would help. I also think it helped to sell playing time.

That said, that "inherited mess" is a group of Gopher football players who worked hard and bled Maroon and Gold.
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I don't think he played up the mess he inherited at all. In my opinion he was being completely honest and when he got here he simply couldn't believe how the previous staff was doing things. I don't think it's possible to underestimate the damage Brewster did to the program and Kill let people know it. In my opinion it was a great strategy and he did no disservice to any of the seniors on this team.
 

DMB123 said:
I don't get how this is possible. According to dpodoll68 the 2008 class was so awesome. All of those stars that dpodoll68 likes to drool over only got us back to back 3-9 seasons and zero players invited to the combine?

There must be something wrong here. No way can an entire recruiting class turn out this way when Rivals rates them so highly with all those stars can it? Something isn't right. Rivals told us 4 years ago we had one of the best classes in the country, so I don't get this at all.
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Hahhh you are starting to get it! That class was elevated because Brewster considered a "expert" recruiter and the media lap dogs followed blindly and willing ate anything he put in front them. Brewster is a very honest man and not media savvy and didn't realize the pressure he was putting on himself by raising expectations. He also wasn't willing to throw kids college career under the bus by building a team that would peak in the crucial years of his contract. Kill doesn't have that issue. Under the bus you go buddy.

Who's wrong? It depends.

Brew's way was better for the kids individually but worse for him and the long term hhealth of the program (unless the AD was willing to give him more time).

Kills way is certainly better for Kill and ultimately the program (assuming god willing his health holds up. However, it sucks for the upper classmen. And yes, I believe he could have garnered the same results without publicly trashing the players and by telling the actual truth.

Which was: mistakes made during recruiting and player develope left some talent and experience gaps. To fix this we are unfortunately going to have to play younger inferior players over more experienced and in some cases better older players. Rather than pretend like there is actual competition for some spots we will allow the upper classman to transfer. While their are a handfull (2-3?) of coaches that have the ability to install a system that can make the team competitive now (coach to the ability of the existing players), we will need 5 to 7 years to bring in the type of players who can run the system I use.

Unfortunately he went the it's all on them they suck route. Again; unless one of the players grow tired of this and decide to push him down a flight of stairs (lol), we will win. Kill knows what he is doing and has the coaching chops to get it done.
 

RodentRampage said:
Yes, you are making assumptions. While some people might give up if they aren't constantly told how great they are, other people do in fact kick back and relax if they are constantly told how great they are.

If you're correct, then drill sergeants are doing it all wrong...
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My man. I have read NFL scouting reports on a certain player. I have been privy to conversations that have taken place between a certain players agent and NFL scouts. I'm aware of what they think about a certain player and more importantly how they arrived at that thought process. Part of their process is speaking with the players coaches.

During those conversations a coach can say or not say a mulitude of things. If a coach chooses not to say something because it will but him and his program in a very bad light but by not saying it it will have a negative effect on the player.....yes I have a huge issue with that. I realize I'm being vague but.....just be happy you got whatyou got.

Your view is naive and at best uniformed. These kids don't get to this level by kicking back. Most people never have to compete with people from all across the country. These kids compete every step of the way. They compete to make their high school team, they compete to start on their high school team. They compete for scholarships they compete to make the travel team, they compete for playing time, they compete to start. And you know what? If they made it this far they were told frequently along the way how great they are yet they still are competing.

From my perspective this is what I see. A coach who is serving it up and a fan (you), who is swallowing it so fast you're choking on it.

This is how I arrived at my opinion...again I'm asking you, how did you arrive at yours?
 



Bob_Loblaw said:
I think you guys are arguing different points.

Sportsfan24 is saying that Kill's constant downplaying of the talent on his team has hurt the Senior's chances of being invited to these kinds of things.

Rodent is arguing that Kill's constant downplaying of the talent on his team will motivate to make the future players better.

They both can be true.

Personally, I think some of the downplaying of talent by Kill was too much. I think it was partially self-serving and partially for the future of the program. I think that Kill wanted to create a situation where he was given some patience by the Gopher fan base, and to really play up the "mess" he inherited would help. I also think it helped to sell playing time.

That said, that "inherited mess" is a group of Gopher football players who worked hard and bled Maroon and Gold.
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Well said. Things are not always black and white, right or wrong. For the most part I believe what Kill is doing is best for the program. Folks are going to be negatively effected and it may not be avoidable. Again, I believe Kill will be successful here. I'm pulling for him and I have told him that I will help him in any way I can.
 


Code:
There is an awful lot of speculation in this thread. I would like someone to point out any specific player who was supposedly harmed by the new coaching staff. Of the few seniors on the team, you could make a case at the start of the season there may have been 4-6 players who may have had a shot at the next level. This was also the same period of time when most people on this board were expecting 4-6 wins. Based on how the season played out, how can any one upperclassman made the case that anyone outperformed expectations? Logical thought explains why players didn't get an invite

Royston made a ton of tackles because the rest of the defense stunk. He is not a standout player. His broken leg and age don't help either.
McKnight had high expectations, but clearly disappointed.
Tinsley was largely invisible, just did his job. didn't really do anything to stand out that would earn more accolates.
Senior o-line.... All disappointed
Lair- I'm guessing attitude ruined his chances.
Stoutermire may have been invited if he was not coming back next season
Am I missing anyone?
 

WHB Brewer said:
Code:
There is an awful lot of speculation in this thread. I would like someone to point out any specific player who was supposedly harmed by the new coaching staff. Of the few seniors on the team, you could make a case at the start of the season there may have been 4-6 players who may have had a shot at the next level. This was also the same period of time when most people on this board were expecting 4-6 wins. Based on how the season played out, how can any one upperclassman
made the case that anyone outperformed expectations? Logical thought explains why players didn't
get an invite

Royston made a ton of tackles because the rest of the defense stunk. He is not a standout player.
His broken leg and age don't help either.
McKnight had high expectations, but clearly disappointed.
Tinsley was largely invisible, just did his job. didn't really do anything to stand out that would earn more
Senior o-line.... All disappointed
Lair- I'm guessing attitude ruined his chances.
Stoutermire may have been invited if he was not coming back next season
Am I missing anyone?
Click to expand...

Interesting. Can you name one defense back in the history of college football who put the numbers Kim did at a BCS conference school who wasn't considered stand player? Don't be silly of course he was a standout player.

Age? Do some homework and you will find that Ed Reed, Terrence Newman, Brandon Merriweather and Reggie Nelson were all either slightly (months) older or Younger than Kim when they were drafted. Not to mention there was a 26 year player last year and there will be a 29 year old player drafted this year.

Broken leg? According to the NFL that is not a issue based on his production this year. And by the way led the all conference DB's in tackling the year they went to a Bowl game....do I need to mention he tied the bowl record for tackles with 15 for that game?

I'm getting sick of posting on this matter so I will lay it out there and be done with it. I said nothing last year when my son ran around on a broken leg last season (2010) because the surgery was botched (MY doctor fixed it), I said nothing this year when he could hardly walk let alone run 3 games into the season because his groin "hurt", only to find out in January he was misdiagnosed yet again and he had a completely torn sports hernia. Surgery and rehabilitation puts the much needed pro day in serious jeopardy of not happening. Kill told everyone who would listen how unathletic this team was, naturally anyone looking who saw a safety who at times looked a step slow would assume this is what Kill was talking about. At any point he could have mentioned that in the case of his most productive player...he was hurt. He chose not too.

It's no secret to anyone I didn't want Kim at Minnesota (I'm glad he did). He wanted to be here. He walked away from Wisconsin, after he desided to transfer he could have chosen several schools (scholarship) like Oregon or Boston College but he wanted to be a gopher....for free. Speaking for (in regard) him only I think that deserved better treatment.

Kim has never complained or assigned blame and I'm certain I will catch a earful (and be respectively told to shut up...lol) but that's how Kim was harmed and I'm done talking about it.
 



Sportsfan24 said:
Interesting. Can you name one defense back in the history of college football who put the numbers Kim did at a BCS conference school who wasn't considered stand player? Don't be silly of course he was a standout player.

Age? Do some homework and you will find that Ed Reed, Terrence Newman, Brandon Merriweather and Reggie Nelson were all either slightly (months) older or Younger than Kim when they were drafted. Not to mention there was a 26 year player last year and there will be a 29 year old player drafted this year.

Broken leg? According to the NFL that is not a issue based on his production this year. And by the way led the all conference DB's in tackling the year they went to a Bowl game....do I need to mention he tied the bowl record for tackles with 15 for that game?

I'm getting sick of posting on this matter so I will lay it out there and be done with it. I said nothing last year when my son ran around on a broken leg last season (2010) because the surgery was botched (MY doctor fixed it), I said nothing this year when he could hardly walk let alone run 3 games into the season because his groin "hurt", only to find out in January he was misdiagnosed yet again and he had a completely torn sports hernia. Surgery and rehabilitation puts the much needed pro day in serious jeopardy of not happening. Kill told everyone who would listen how unathletic this team was, naturally anyone looking who saw a safety who at times looked a step slow would assume this is what Kill was talking about. At any point he could have mentioned that in the case of his most productive player...he was hurt. He chose not too.

It's no secret to anyone I didn't want Kim at Minnesota (I'm glad he did). He wanted to be here. He walked away from Wisconsin, after he desided to transfer he could have chosen several schools (scholarship) like Oregon or Boston College but he wanted to be a gopher....for free. Speaking for (in regard) him only I think that deserved better treatment.

Kim has never complained or assigned blame and I'm certain I will catch a earful (and be respectively told to shut up...lol) but that's how Kim was harmed and I'm done talking about it.
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A appreciate your post, Sportsfan. I am guessing that I have been a Gopher football fan longer than you have been alive. You can count be among the Gopher fans who were not that exited when Kim left the Badgers to play for the Gophers. But I am happy to report to you that Kim is now on my short list of all-time favorite Gophers. He was an absolute warrior last season, especially with all he has had to deal with during his college football career. I couldn't take by eyes off him when the defense was on the field last season. But more than that I have been very impressed by what an intelligent and mature person Kim is at his age. He was one of the leaders of a team which has had to deal with a lot of changes and challenges the last couple of years. I have zero doubt that he will be successful in whatever he chooses to do with his life after football and he will continue to make you very proud of him in every way.
 

Sportsfan24 said:
Well said. Things are not always black and white, right or wrong. For the most part I believe what Kill is doing is best for the program. Folks are going to be negatively effected and it may not be avoidable. Again, I believe Kill will be successful here. I'm pulling for him and I have told him that I will help him in any way I can.
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You obviously have a different take on Kill's approach than most, and I don't think it should be discounted. What I find interesting is that you say he threw your son under the bus while at the same time saying that he is doing what is in the best interests of the program.

I am sure that if you ask Kill about the situation, he would have a much different take. That is what I find interesting.

The tough part of coaching at the highest level, as you acknowledge, is the need to balance long-term goals and success with the short-term happiness of the older kids already in the program. If you ask a group of fans, my guess is that most, if not all, of them would be willing to endure a season or two of losses for extended success in the long term. I happen to be one of them. Your point is well-taken, however, that sometimes that success comes at the expense of others.

I don't know how Kim will do at the next level, but Victor Cruz is a perfect example of how players who are good enough will get a shot. At the end of the day, NFL coaches and GMs will watch the film and not listen to college coaches' press conferences. If Kim is good enough, he will get a shot. That isn't for any of us to decide. NFL GMs lose their jobs if they get the wrong guys, so I am going to trust them when they say that a player, Gopher or otherwise, has the goods or doesn't have the goods.

I hope Kim has what it takes, but I also hope you understand how most people will hesitate to take the word of a player's dad about whether or not that player got thrown under the bus or whether or not he was good enough to play. Every dad thinks his kid is amazing. I'm no different.
 

As long as there are coaches of sports, there will be parents of athletes that are convinced said coach is squandering their child's immense talent and jeopardizing their future. It happens at every level. Coach Kill, in no way, has jeopardized any chance any gopher player has at making it into the NFL(unless he, in fact, was the doctor who botched the surgery). The NFL is a billion dollar business that is predicated on finding the best players in the world. I'm not a highly paid talent scout, so I won't pretend to know if Kim Royston has the chops to play in the NFL...but if he does, he WILL. I'm sure, Mr. Royston, you are being sincere and just looking out for your child (which is natural...don't get me wrong) but you're coming off as being very petty in this entire thing.
 




Sportsfan24 said:
Interesting. Can you name one defense back in the history of college football who put the numbers Kim did at a BCS conference school who wasn't considered stand player? Don't be silly of course he was a standout player.

Age? Do some homework and you will find that Ed Reed, Terrence Newman, Brandon Merriweather and Reggie Nelson were all either slightly (months) older or Younger than Kim when they were drafted. Not to mention there was a 26 year player last year and there will be a 29 year old player drafted this year.

Broken leg? According to the NFL that is not a issue based on his production this year. And by the way led the all conference DB's in tackling the year they went to a Bowl game....do I need to mention he tied the bowl record for tackles with 15 for that game?

I'm getting sick of posting on this matter so I will lay it out there and be done with it. I said nothing last year when my son ran around on a broken leg last season (2010) because the surgery was botched (MY doctor fixed it), I said nothing this year when he could hardly walk let alone run 3 games into the season because his groin "hurt", only to find out in January he was misdiagnosed yet again and he had a completely torn sports hernia. Surgery and rehabilitation puts the much needed pro day in serious jeopardy of not happening. Kill told everyone who would listen how unathletic this team was, naturally anyone looking who saw a safety who at times looked a step slow would assume this is what Kill was talking about. At any point he could have mentioned that in the case of his most productive player...he was hurt. He chose not too.

It's no secret to anyone I didn't want Kim at Minnesota (I'm glad he did). He wanted to be here. He walked away from Wisconsin, after he desided to transfer he could have chosen several schools (scholarship) like Oregon or Boston College but he wanted to be a gopher....for free. Speaking for (in regard) him only I think that deserved better treatment.

Kim has never complained or assigned blame and I'm certain I will catch a earful (and be respectively told to shut up...lol) but that's how Kim was harmed and I'm done talking about it.
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Like others have mentioned, I appreciate you posting on here and, certainly, am proud of Kim's achievements as a Gopher. I imagine it did not go the way he had originally planned, but I hope young players on the team learned a lot from him. He's a class act and a very good player.

Also, like others have said, there really isn't a definite right or wrong here. I will say that I imagine Kill does talk to NFL teams in private about our seniors, and probably talks in a positive way when doing so. Most of the criticism by him during the year was spoken in general terms, which doesn't necessarily mean he feels that way about every player.

Either way, if Kim, McKnight, and others can play at the next level, they will get their chance.
 


SportsFan24, I hope Kim gets his shot at being a pro. I also hope Kim gets a shot at a good life with family, friends, health, with good balance in everything. Keep looking out for him. I am certainly glad your son played in the Rose bowl and did well, even if it was with the Badgers.
 

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