No coach will be successful until basketball is made a priority at the U

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Maximus said:
So you're advocating dropping the football program to FCS level?
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I must have missed the part of my post where I said that. I was responding to an earlier comment which asked if other programs successfully raised money while competing with four major pro sports teams.

University of Michigan also seems to do alright even though they have FBS football on campus and the Lions, Red Wings, Tigers, and Pistons in the Detroit-Ann Arbor-Flint Combined Statistical Area. Right now we are even behind Northwestern in football and basketball performance even though they have FBS football and are in the same county as an NBA team, an NFL team, an NHL team, and two major league baseball teams.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
I must have missed the part of my post where I said that. I was responding to an earlier comment which asked if other programs successfully raised money while competing with four major pro sports teams.
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But you're comparing apples to oranges. As Maximus notes, Georgetown isn't trying to support a big time basketball program and a BCS level football program. For your comparison to be apt Minnesota would have to drop to FCS.
 

GoAUpher said:
But you're comparing apples to oranges. As Maximus notes, Georgetown isn't trying to support a big time basketball program and a BCS level football program. For your comparison to be apt Minnesota would have to drop to FCS.
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That's valid, but you didn't copy the second half of my post where I pointed to two basketball teams that are above us in the standings, have FBS football, are in the same conference, and are in the immediate vicinity of four major pro sports teams (actually, one of those examples had 5 major pro sports teams).
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
That's valid, but you didn't copy the second half of my post where I pointed to two basketball teams that are above us in the standings, have FBS football, are in the same conference, and are in the immediate vicinity of four major pro sports teams (actually, one of those examples had 5 major pro sports teams).
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That's partially because I'm not arguing it can't be done, I was simply pointing out that the Georgetown comparison was faulty.

Michigan isn't really apples to apples either, but that has more to do with the longstanding high level of success in football (which breeds a climate conducive to donation). Plus, selling out one of the largest stadiums in all of sports helps reduce the school's dependency on donation. They can self finance a lot more.

Northwestern doesn't really prove anything. Their facilities are worse and as a private school we don't know what their donation levels are. The original point wasn't about on field/court performance.
 

GoAUpher said:
That's partially because I'm not arguing it can't be done, I was simply pointing out that the Georgetown comparison was faulty.

Michigan isn't really apples to apples either, but that has more to do with the longstanding high level of success in football (which breeds a climate conducive to donation). Plus, selling out one of the largest stadiums in all of sports helps reduce the school's dependency on donation. They can self finance a lot more.

Northwestern doesn't really prove anything. Their facilities are worse and as a private school we don't know what their donation levels are. The original point wasn't about on field/court performance.
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Its fair that none of these comparisons are perfect, but no comparison ever will be because there are countless factors that go into fundraising, and I will concede that there is no school in the country that does not have an advantage over is in at least one of those factors. You are definitely right on not knowing what NU's donation levels are, but whatever their funding levels are, it is enough to beat us right now, and if their funding level is lower, than lack of money is not our problem, or at least not the biggest one.
 


akgopher said:
If the student section turns, I don't think there is any going back. I think Tubby could turn it around like Lucia did this year. He needs players to get better over the summer, something that hasn't transpired during the past few seasons.

But a lineup of Eliason-Walker-Williams-Hollins-Hollins and Coleman, Welch has a shot especially if Buggs is decent.

This recruiting season is big and a lot has to go right, but it is possible. The new AD should get a year to evaluate the programs. Tubby could quit too.
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  • Austin Hollins shooting has really come around this year, he needs to get a little tougher and more physical but the promise is there.
  • Andre Hollins will be good one day, it may take another year but he has a lot of ability.
  • Eliason showed some promise hitting a couple of mid range jumpers, he's not there yet but hopefully he can get there.
  • Coleman is understanding the game, took a couple of jumpers, even made one, I'm sure he knows what he has to work on.
  • ect..
Ralph is the only player that is not returning, the improvement I was hoping for hasn't shown itself in the games of late, it doesn't mean it isn't happening though. Next year could turn out like this year, but they could start winning the close games which would make a world of difference.
 

bleedsmaroonandgold said:
Its fair that none of these comparisons are perfect, but no comparison ever will be because there are countless factors that go into fundraising, and I will concede that there is no school in the country that does not have an advantage over is in at least one of those factors. You are definitely right on not knowing what NU's donation levels are, but whatever their funding levels are, it is enough to beat us right now, and if their funding level is lower, than lack of money is not our problem, or at least not the biggest one.
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Apples to apples is hard, no doubt. In the end, I don't think being in a pro market is a huge factor for fundraising. As I note above, the donors we're missing aren't giving money to the pro teams. They're either sitting on the money or they're giving it to some other group (a problem that would exist regardless of location).

I'd wouldn't argue that funding is the main problem for basketball (or any other sport) at this time. Just a big problem in general for the dept and one that can negatively impact the ability of the sports to make larger gains. But we're on the edge of facing a problem in basketball when it comes to the lack of a practice facility. The issue I can see is that not having a practice facility (or big movement towards getting one built) could be a big strike against the U if/when they go to replace Tubby.
 

dpodoll68 said:
I don't defend Tubby because of his "name". I defend him because he is the Gopher coach, and I am a fan of the Gophers. I do this for all Gopher coaches until they are no longer Gopher coaches, regardless of their "name".
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The Nuremberg defense.
 




GoodasGold said:
The Nuremberg defense.
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Yes, picking the phrase that compares a fellow poster to a Nazi is a winning argument. Especially since (as dpodoll notes) it doesn't even apply or make sense.
 

GoAUpher said:
Yes, picking the phrase that compares a fellow poster to a Nazi is a winning argument. Especially since (as dpodoll notes) it doesn't even apply or make sense.
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Yes, of course. If at all in doubt go with the literal...it's easier to be offended that way.
 

GoodasGold said:
Yes, of course. If at all in doubt go with the literal...it's easier to be offended that way.
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I've always been annoyed that folks pretend the use of this term shouldn't be treated as literal (whatever their intentions were). The trial the phrase refers only happened once and had specific participants. If the goal is to make a general point then just use a more general phrase like "following lawful orders" or the like. Which, as already noted, don't even apply here.
 




Unless there are a whole lot of rich "we ONLY donate to the Basketball Program" guys out there then the fund raising for TCF probably tapped-out most of the big time donors.
 

Iceland12 said:
Unless there are a whole lot of rich "we ONLY donate to the Basketball Program" guys out there then the fund raising for TCF probably tapped-out most of the big time donors.
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Alumni only donated 55 million to TCF bank stadium, not a ton of money. With the sheer number of alumni they should easily be able to fund raise with the best of them but they have failed miserably up to this point.
 


station19 said:
Was all of the 55 from alumni?
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35 million from TCF bank for naming rights and 55 million raised from alumni, other sources, etc.
 



its 35 million for a billion years or so. Plus i think they got all of the ATM locations on campus and access to student lists etc.. .
 

And btw....there are several large college athletic programs that do just fine in major markets with pro teams.
 

zubb said:
its 35 million for a billion years or so. Plus i think they got all of the ATM locations on campus and access to student lists etc.. .
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TCF bank had had an exclusive agreement with the U card ID's for at least 15 years i believe. Giving the money allows them to likely continue that relationship which has been very profitable for them, probably more so than the money the have given back to the university.
 

GopherGod said:
TCF bank had had an exclusive agreement with the U card ID's for at least 15 years i believe. Giving the money allows them to likely continue that relationship which has been very profitable for them, probably more so than the money the have given back to the university.
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I believe the agreement is for 25 years. I could be wrong on the years but the atm arrangement must be worth a lot of bucks.

TCF got an awfully good deal. I wonder who worked out that arrangement. Maybe they should have hired a naming rights firm.
 

station19 said:
I believe the agreement is for 25 years. I could be wrong on the years but the atm arrangement must be worth a lot of bucks.

TCF got an awfully good deal. I wonder who worked out that arrangement. Maybe they should have hired a naming rights firm.
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I don't know who all the U had as part of its negotiating team but the decision ultimately rests on Bruininks' shoulders.

T. Denny Sanford had initially offered up the same amount of money to get the project going but the U passed. Bruininks explained at the time that Sanford wanted the stadium named for him and that was a deal-breaker for the U (there may have been other issues as well, perhaps the period over which Sanford would pay out, but I can't remember. If anybody has a more complete recollection, please share.). This was Bruininks' call.

Then TCF stepped in and the deal now in place was generated. This too was Bruininks' call.

I remember some faculty members and alumni being unhappy with this. Some faculty were upset with TCF's founder's use of his TCF-generated wealth to attack "liberal" university professors and public education (I seem to remember him funding a campaign to purge the GOP of moderates at the caucuses many years back as well).

The other issue was that, at the time, TCF had been in the news for predatory practices with regard to the U Card and/or student loans. Again, I can't remember what all was being leveled against TCF (I don't bank there) but it created a minor stink since the U had planned at one point to end its relationship with TCF due in part to these concerns.

It's ironic that, in public interviews Bruininks tended to focus on the naming issue with regard to Sanford, an alum, and the desire not to degrade the U's image with the naming but then had no problem naming it after a bank with a political owner and shady business practices.
 

Gopher Placenta said:
T. Denny Sanford had initially offered up the same amount of money to get the project going but the U passed. Bruininks explained at the time that Sanford wanted the stadium named for him and that was a deal-breaker for the U (there may have been other issues as well, perhaps the period over which Sanford would pay out, but I can't remember. If anybody has a more complete recollection, please share.). This was Bruininks' call.
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It wasn't just naming rights. He wanted more control over design decisions, etc. As I recall it, he envisioned himself as sort of the Minnesota T Boone Pickens, only while giving way less money.
 

station19 said:
I believe the agreement is for 25 years. I could be wrong on the years but the atm arrangement must be worth a lot of bucks.

TCF got an awfully good deal. I wonder who worked out that arrangement. Maybe they should have hired a naming rights firm.
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$$$$$ Quid pro quo $$$$$. From an Oct 28, 2009 City Pages report... in part: "For 15 years, TCF has been the U's preferred financial institution, and its presence in campus life lies in the school's very marrow. TFC's branches dot the campuses; its ATMs saturate the streets and
dormitories. The U Card, the university's ID document, features not one but two TCF logos.
It's a relationship of mutual sponsorship, one that has seen enormous two-way traffic of money and
endorsement. You can't go a block on campus without seeing the TCF name."
 

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