No Black players expected in World Series, a 1st since 1950

JimmyJamesMD

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short ornery norwegian

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to clarify - that is American-born black players.

according to a report by the University of Central Florida:

In the MLB, the report said 38 percent of all players as of Opening Day 2022 were players of color, a 0.4 percent increase over 2021's numbers. About 28.5 percent of those players were Hispanic or Latino, 1.9 percent were Asian players, and less than 1 percent were Hawaiian/Pacific Islander or Native American.

While Black players made up about 18 percent of all MLB rosters when TIDES first began assessing the league's demographic data in 1991, Black players represented only 7.2 percent of all MLB players at the start of the current season.

Despite the declining percentage of Black MLB players, the report said researchers have seen "some signs of hope" in recent years of the MLB Draft, with the first round of the draft including 56 Black players—about 17.5 percent of all athletes included—from 2012 through last year. The report also acknowledged steps the league has taken to boost its diversity, equity and inclusion efforts over the last few years, which included the MLB's announcement last summer that it is investing $100 million over the next decade in the nonprofit Players Alliance, in part to provide support and encouragement to a greater number of young Black players.
 

Ogee Oglethorpe

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to clarify - that is American-born black players.

according to a report by the University of Central Florida:

In the MLB, the report said 38 percent of all players as of Opening Day 2022 were players of color, a 0.4 percent increase over 2021's numbers. About 28.5 percent of those players were Hispanic or Latino, 1.9 percent were Asian players, and less than 1 percent were Hawaiian/Pacific Islander or Native American.

While Black players made up about 18 percent of all MLB rosters when TIDES first began assessing the league's demographic data in 1991, Black players represented only 7.2 percent of all MLB players at the start of the current season.

Despite the declining percentage of Black MLB players, the report said researchers have seen "some signs of hope" in recent years of the MLB Draft, with the first round of the draft including 56 Black players—about 17.5 percent of all athletes included—from 2012 through last year. The report also acknowledged steps the league has taken to boost its diversity, equity and inclusion efforts over the last few years, which included the MLB's announcement last summer that it is investing $100 million over the next decade in the nonprofit Players Alliance, in part to provide support and encouragement to a greater number of young Black players.

That's not good enough for our race-baiting MSM, SON. You just don't understand, there's black, and there's black....

Media Obsesses Over Race In Regards to World Series Rosters

Oh, and ignore the fact that Astros manger Dusty Baker is black, or he was the last time anyone checked.
_______________________________________________

Racial Identity Is Apparently What Matters​

Yet despite Afro-Latin players often embracing “Black identity,” the AP suggests it’s not enough considering it’s “perhaps not for the same reasons that Black U.S. players do.”

They continue, suggesting that “Race and skin color hold a different currency in places like the Dominican Republic, Panama, Cuba and Belize.”

While the implication that Latin players who embrace “Black identity” aren’t actually black seems incredibly racist, the article also mentions that both teams have Black players in the organization who won’t be playing for a variety of reasons.
 

kg21

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Someone make it stop!

Can someone just make it stop?
 



forever a gopher

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I don't take it as a racist plot. Our best athletes are black but so few are playing baseball. Most want to pursue football or basketball.
This is veering dangerously close to the other off-topic board, but I've never quite understood the obsession with trying to force certain groups to do certain things. If more black kids used to play baseball, but are now playing football/basketball/video games/anything other than baseball, why does it really matter? Can we not assume they're just doing what they prefer at that juncture? I would assume the percentage of white kids playing basketball used to be higher, so do we now need to have PSA's to try and get more white kids playing basketball instead of baseball/hockey/lacrosse/etc.?

I suppose you could argue it's a socio-economic thing, in that inner city kids (no matter their race) don't have access to fields to play and/or money to buy expensive equipment like hockey gear and ice time. If you have studies that show inner city kids have a much lower participation % in sports in general, then maybe you'd be on to something. But if they still are participating in something (and/or have access to it), why do we care what particular sport it is?
 

short ornery norwegian

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I think the issue with Baseball is that Jackie Robinson breaking the color barrier is such a big element in baseball history. Ken Burns made it one of the key factors in his "Baseball" documentary.

Then, black players (or American-born black players, if you prefer) became some of the biggest stars of the game in the 60's and 70's. Mays, Aaron, Frank Robinson, McCovey, Stargell, Ernie Banks, Bob Gibson, Lou Brock - and later Reggie Jackson, Tony Gwynn, Rickie Henderson, Ken Griffey Jr, Barry Steriod Bonds - and of course, Dave Winfield and Kirby Puckett.

so to see Black representation fall to 7% of the game is certainly noteworthy.

the "why" is a much longer discussion.

and now for the cheap shot - Does Byron Buxton only count as half of a black player - because he only plays half the games?
 

GophersInIowa

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That's not good enough for our race-baiting MSM, SON. You just don't understand, there's black, and there's black....

Media Obsesses Over Race In Regards to World Series Rosters

Oh, and ignore the fact that Astros manger Dusty Baker is black, or he was the last time anyone checked.
_______________________________________________

Racial Identity Is Apparently What Matters​

Yet despite Afro-Latin players often embracing “Black identity,” the AP suggests it’s not enough considering it’s “perhaps not for the same reasons that Black U.S. players do.”

They continue, suggesting that “Race and skin color hold a different currency in places like the Dominican Republic, Panama, Cuba and Belize.”

While the implication that Latin players who embrace “Black identity” aren’t actually black seems incredibly racist, the article also mentions that both teams have Black players in the organization who won’t be playing for a variety of reasons.
I always love those type of headlines. Writing one article equals being obsessed.
 




GophersInIowa

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This is veering dangerously close to the other off-topic board, but I've never quite understood the obsession with trying to force certain groups to do certain things. If more black kids used to play baseball, but are now playing football/basketball/video games/anything other than baseball, why does it really matter? Can we not assume they're just doing what they prefer at that juncture? I would assume the percentage of white kids playing basketball used to be higher, so do we now need to have PSA's to try and get more white kids playing basketball instead of baseball/hockey/lacrosse/etc.?

I suppose you could argue it's a socio-economic thing, in that inner city kids (no matter their race) don't have access to fields to play and/or money to buy expensive equipment like hockey gear and ice time. If you have studies that show inner city kids have a much lower participation % in sports in general, then maybe you'd be on to something. But if they still are participating in something (and/or have access to it), why do we care what particular sport it is?
Yes and no. There are some demographics that have little to no opportunity to play certain sports. Some of the initiatives/approaches are to try to make the opportunities available to more people. It's good for the sport. And the more people interested in baseball, the more money they make.
 

kg21

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GophersInIowa

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forever a gopher

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Yes and no. There are some demographics that have little to no opportunity to play certain sports. Some of the initiatives/approaches are to try to make the opportunities available to more people. It's good for the sport. And the more people interested in baseball, the more money they make.
I would absolutely agree with you on that one. I would argue that baseball is not one of them, however. The reason soccer is so popular the world over is all you need is reasonably flat land and a ball. Pretty much all demographics can participate. To get into baseball you need a bat (which can be shared amongst two entire teams), a ball, and a glove. Sure, you can buy a $500 bat and $200 glove, but for the most part you can go buy a brand new ball ($5), glove ($40), and bat ($50) for under $100, and you can play wherever there is space. If you're getting them used, you can get cheap ones on Craigslist all day long.

Baseball used to be popular because it had been around forever, but also because it was accessible to poor immigrants. Playing stickball in the streets was an accessible and affordable option to keep kids busy. All the games were on the radio and going to a game was the cheapest of the major sports.

The NFL is massively popular (IMO) due to the fact that they are brilliant marketers. Your local team is available on free OTA TV every week. You know how to get people hooked on your product? Make it accessible. If the Twins/MLB were serious about getting people interested in their game, they'd make more available on OTA TV. I've harped on the Twins thread many times about this, but having 1 or more games a week on OTA TV would pay dividends down the road to their fan interest and thus their bottom line. But it takes time. When a kid that can't afford cable (especially now that BSN is only available in a few places) can never watch your games, do you think they're going to give a crap about you? Probably not.

The reason there's fewer black kids playing baseball is the same reason there's fewer of all kids playing baseball - it's seen as slow, boring, and old. I love it, but I can also see why kids of this generation (inundated with smart phones, internet, social media, etc.) don't care about it. But that doesn't fit the narrative that everything needs to be about race and victimhood.
 



Bob_Loblaw

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We should really start letting black kids play baseball.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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Yes and no. There are some demographics that have little to no opportunity to play certain sports. Some of the initiatives/approaches are to try to make the opportunities available to more people. It's good for the sport. And the more people interested in baseball, the more money they make.
Why?
 

Iceland12

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Yes and no. There are some demographics that have little to no opportunity to play certain sports. Some of the initiatives/approaches are to try to make the opportunities available to more people. It's good for the sport. And the more people interested in baseball, the more money they make.

Seems reasonable. Have heard people in baseball express it too.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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Seems reasonable. Have heard people in baseball express it too.
White viewership didn't go down in the NBA when it had a higher density of African Americans. I don't think that's the reason people are making this an issue. I think they are pretending that's their argument because they don't want to sound like diversity-shills. If it were true, why wouldn't the article be about the lack of Chinese and Indian players in the World Series? They would generate more people watching baseball than if Torii Hunter was playing in this World Series.

People aren't turning baseball off because there is a lack of black players. Black people wouldn't be more likely to watch baseball if there were two black guys on the Astros. It's the other way around, black people (and people in general) stopped watching baseball and moved to other sports. It wasn't because of a lack of inclusion, it was out of boredom with the sport.


People always point to issues in certain communities that make it really hard to play baseball. They are trying to get people to think "man, there really aren't many baseball diamonds in the hood". It's a silly argument. Football takes up more green space and is significantly more expensive than baseball (more expensive equipment) yet those numbers aren't going down.


If you were to poll young African American men, I'd imagine the vast majority would just say they aren't interested in baseball or it's their third favorite sport (so it's easy to dump it in favor of AAU hoops or 7-7 passing leagues). Why don't we just believe them?


At the end of the day, if baseball has a problem is that a ton of sports fans have lost interest in the game. They shouldn't tackle this problem by saying "how do we get more black people interested in baseball", they should tackle it by saying "how do we make baseball more interesting?"
 

GophersInIowa

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I would absolutely agree with you on that one. I would argue that baseball is not one of them, however. The reason soccer is so popular the world over is all you need is reasonably flat land and a ball. Pretty much all demographics can participate. To get into baseball you need a bat (which can be shared amongst two entire teams), a ball, and a glove. Sure, you can buy a $500 bat and $200 glove, but for the most part you can go buy a brand new ball ($5), glove ($40), and bat ($50) for under $100, and you can play wherever there is space. If you're getting them used, you can get cheap ones on Craigslist all day long.

Baseball used to be popular because it had been around forever, but also because it was accessible to poor immigrants. Playing stickball in the streets was an accessible and affordable option to keep kids busy. All the games were on the radio and going to a game was the cheapest of the major sports.

The NFL is massively popular (IMO) due to the fact that they are brilliant marketers. Your local team is available on free OTA TV every week. You know how to get people hooked on your product? Make it accessible. If the Twins/MLB were serious about getting people interested in their game, they'd make more available on OTA TV. I've harped on the Twins thread many times about this, but having 1 or more games a week on OTA TV would pay dividends down the road to their fan interest and thus their bottom line. But it takes time. When a kid that can't afford cable (especially now that BSN is only available in a few places) can never watch your games, do you think they're going to give a crap about you? Probably not.

The reason there's fewer black kids playing baseball is the same reason there's fewer of all kids playing baseball - it's seen as slow, boring, and old. I love it, but I can also see why kids of this generation (inundated with smart phones, internet, social media, etc.) don't care about it. But that doesn't fit the narrative that everything needs to be about race and victimhood.
Tournaments every other weekend, travel ball, etc. A lot less leagues in some areas. It’s much different than it used to be.
 


Bob_Loblaw

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Why would more people playing a sport be a good thing for the sport? Results in more fans which means more money. More kids playing would increase the talent at the higher levels.
Why would getting, specifically, more black players in the World Series result in more people watching? Why is the article and you specifically concerned about AA participation in baseball and not other demographics?

Do you think getting more white players in the NBA would drive ratings? Do you think the Golden State Warriors had a difficult time drawing ratings because they didn't have any American-born white people?
 

GophersInIowa

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Why would getting, specifically, more black players in the World Series result in more people watching? Why is the article and you specifically concerned about AA participation in baseball and not other demographics?

Do you think getting more white players in the NBA would drive ratings? Do you think the Golden State Warriors had a difficult time drawing ratings because they didn't have any American-born white people?
That’s not at all what I was trying to say. I was talking about getting more people playing the sport of baseball overall. Wasn’t talking about MLB and the World Series specifically. There’s a greater chance you’re a fan when you’re older if you’re exposed to the sport when you’re younger.
 

Bob_Loblaw

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That’s not at all what I was trying to say. I was talking about getting more people playing the sport of baseball overall. Wasn’t talking about MLB and the World Series specifically. There’s a greater chance you’re a fan when you’re older if you’re exposed to the sport when you’re younger.
They're pretty exposed to baseball. There is a baseball game on TV every single night. It's all over ESPN, it's everywhere.

Isn't it possible that it's just less popular to a lot of people in the US?
 

GophersInIowa

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They're pretty exposed to baseball. There is a baseball game on TV every single night. It's all over ESPN, it's everywhere.

Isn't it possible that it's just less popular to a lot of people in the US?
It is possible. I’m simply stating why it would be beneficial for MLB to invest in trying to grow the sport.

And even more specifically I was talking about playing the game. The more people of all ages that play, the better it is for MLB.
 

forever a gopher

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Tournaments every other weekend, travel ball, etc. A lot less leagues in some areas. It’s much different than it used to be.
Yeah, I get where you’re coming from, and don’t really disagree. I’m coming at it more from when kids are younger and playing with friends and/or their neighborhood rec league. If you don’t get them at that age, they likely aren’t going to take it up later.
 

Spaulding!No!

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We played stickball against a brick wall. It’s been years since I’ve seen kids doing the same at the same place in my city.
 

short ornery norwegian

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We played stickball against a brick wall. It’s been years since I’ve seen kids doing the same at the same place in my city.

exactly what I was thinking. when I was a kid, we'd just get a bunch of guys together and go play.
If you just had a few kids, we'd play "rubber ball" with the city park shelter as a backstop. (a really good hit might cross the street and hit the Funeral home....)

If you had more kids, we'd go to the High School fields and play different types of games. "Work Up" was a popular version - rotate from pitcher to hitter to the various positions.

but the point is, we just went out and played. didn't need to be in some organized activity. today everything is organized and over-organized. T-Ball, coach-pitch, little league, traveling teams, Babe Ruth leagues....etc. some of the fun has been taken out of it.
 

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exactly what I was thinking. when I was a kid, we'd just get a bunch of guys together and go play.
If you just had a few kids, we'd play "rubber ball" with the city park shelter as a backstop. (a really good hit might cross the street and hit the Funeral home....)

If you had more kids, we'd go to the High School fields and play different types of games. "Work Up" was a popular version - rotate from pitcher to hitter to the various positions.

but the point is, we just went out and played. didn't need to be in some organized activity. today everything is organized and over-organized. T-Ball, coach-pitch, little league, traveling teams, Babe Ruth leagues....etc. some of the fun has been taken out of it.
We still played a version of stick ball into our 40's. Right by the Grain Belt Brewery building. Had semi trailers as the outfield wall and a view of the downtown skyline.
 

Spaulding!No!

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We still played a version of stick ball into our 40's. Right by the Grain Belt Brewery building. Had semi trailers as the outfield wall and a view of the downtown skyline.
Cutoff hockey stick or broom stick? We had both and I preferred the hockey stick for grip and it created tough to catch pop ups
 

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Cutoff hockey stick or broom stick? We had both and I preferred the hockey stick for grip and it created tough to catch pop ups
Wood bat and tennis balls. It took a lot to hit it over the trucks.

If you hit it off the "wall" you got a triple.

If it got by the outfielder, you got a double.

If any fielder bobbled it or missed it etc.. you got a single.

No walks but there were strikeouts.
 




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