New Commit: Rodrick Williams, RB, Lewisville (TX)

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highwayman said:
I love the fact that we are still bemoaning Kill offers and commits. The man has a plan, and the all the whining here will not deter him. Not every position player (including RBs) is being recruited for the same role on the team.
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I don't think most people on here that are surprised by these types of moves think they can recruit better than Kill. I think what is troubling to them is that other men in the same position as Kill in BCS schools have not thought the same way about players he is bringing in.

When you go that much against the grain vs. your peers it does open you up for criticism if it doesn't pan out. For example, by hiring a coach with zero HC or coordinator experience Joel M. took a lot of heat for a similar against the grain decision when he hired Brewster.

Kill is putting himself on the line by making these types of moves. In the same way as you don't want people to criticize his decisions, to simply pass them off as great moves because "we should trust Kill" is an equally polarizing stance
 



josh087 said:
I don't think most people on here that are surprised by these types of moves think they can recruit better than Kill. I think what is troubling to them is that other men in the same position as Kill in BCS schools have not thought the same way about players he is bringing in.

When you go that much against the grain vs. your peers it does open you up for criticism if it doesn't pan out. For example, by hiring a coach with zero HC or coordinator experience Joel M. took a lot of heat for a similar against the grain decision when he hired Brewster.

Kill is putting himself on the line by making these types of moves. In the same way as you don't want people to criticize his decisions, to simply pass them off as great moves because "we should trust Kill" is an equally polarizing stance
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You make very fair points. However, Kill knows that this program is at an all-time low and it needs a culture change. The school isn't going to recruit until the on-field product is better. He is going with what he is familiar with and using his connections to get guys that he thinks can play and others may not notice. I happen to like his plan, so far.
 

Ole said:
It will be interesting to see what the chicken littles do when the recruiting databases get around to evaluating our unranked prospects, I'm expecting silence.

The kid is big, can move and catch. i love texas football players.
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I love Texas woman!

But seriously, you have to trust the coaching staff here. These guys know what they're doing and know what they want. They could care less what Rivals and Scout have to say, and so could I. If coach Kill went after only highly-touted prospects, this program would be in trouble because Minnesota does not naturally attract those type of players. He will fill in athletes were he needs to and build a solid foundation and then the top-flight HS players will follow (someday). Patience.
 


"They could care less..." please repeat several times until it is habit...."couldn't care less. couldn't care less. couldn't care less." Lather, rinse, and repeat.
 

Agree 100%

60's Guy said:
4.8 yards a carry
6 touchdowns in a little over 100 touches
caught 15 passes
2nd team all district as a junior...big schools
220 pound back that runs a 4.5 and the coaches compare him to Brandon Jacobs...what's not to like?
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Good speed actually for more of a power back. Kill & Co. obviously think highly of him and that he will work hard to get better.

They must see his potential long term and that they can help coach and develop him.

The little bit that has been written about him says to me that he is a good citizen and a decent student looking for an opportunity for a good education and degree...not just playing college football to try to get to the NFL.
 

highwayman said:
I love the fact that we are still bemoaning Kill offers and commits. The man has a plan, and the all the whining here will not deter him. Not every position player (including RBs) is being recruited for the same role on the team.
Click to expand...

josh087 said:
I don't think most people on here that are surprised by these types of moves think they can recruit better than Kill. I think what is troubling to them is that other men in the same position as Kill in BCS schools have not thought the same way about players he is bringing in.

When you go that much against the grain vs. your peers it does open you up for criticism if it doesn't pan out. For example, by hiring a coach with zero HC or coordinator experience Joel M. took a lot of heat for a similar against the grain decision when he hired Brewster.

Kill is putting himself on the line by making these types of moves. In the same way as you don't want people to criticize his decisions, to simply pass them off as great moves because "we should trust Kill" is an equally polarizing stance
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I think you mights be misinterpreting moi. My statement means that we are in no position to judge Kill's recruits one way or the other. They are his recruits to his system, using his HS talent analysis.

We HAVE TO trust Kill right now. If we've learned anything over the last 4 years, it's that stars mean nothing if you can get the players into school and you can't coach them up. Kill has a proven track record of getting players into school and coaching up players at multiple levels. What else we got going for us if we can't trust the coach--classic Minnesota self-loathing? (Not toward you directly Josh, a generalization)
 

josh087 said:
I don't think most people on here that are surprised by these types of moves think they can recruit better than Kill. I think what is troubling to them is that other men in the same position as Kill in BCS schools have not thought the same way about players he is bringing in.

When you go that much against the grain vs. your peers it does open you up for criticism if it doesn't pan out. For example, by hiring a coach with zero HC or coordinator experience Joel M. took a lot of heat for a similar against the grain decision when he hired Brewster.

Kill is putting himself on the line by making these types of moves. In the same way as you don't want people to criticize his decisions, to simply pass them off as great moves because "we should trust Kill" is an equally polarizing stance
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I take issue with this type of thought process and I realize you are simply explaining the theory. However, the same could and should rightly be said in the converse. If he brings in kids that have high star ratings and they don't pan out he should criticized just the same as if one does it the other way.

He is putting himself on the line by coaching the Gophers; whether he follows the crowd or not is irrelevant. He shouldn't get a pass for thinking like everyone else because 50% of everyone else is wrong. Only 10% to 20% of coaches may be considered consistantly correct under these conditions. Thus in the same respect he should also not receuve criticism just because he is not thinking like everyone else. He just may turn out to be correct.

When you think of it there are something like 250 four and five star kids in the universe every year... there are rougly 3000 spots that need filling every year (8%) If Kill gets any in the top 8% he did well and in terms of Depth lets hope he does a good job evavluating the rest. In either regard, good coaching will be necessary and we'll just have to wait and see whether he can do it.
 



highwayman said:
I love the fact that we are still bemoaning Kill offers and commits. The man has a plan, and the all the whining here will not deter him. Not every position player (including RBs) is being recruited for the same role on the team.
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Obviously Highwayman you did not see the incredible holes in this kid's game the rest of us crack recruiting analysts saw in 8 seconds. Besides being big with pretty good acceleration, there were no other positive attributes to be seen. Too bad Coach Kill does not realize what a fabulous recruiting analysis team he has avaliable on Gopher Hole.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
You make very fair points. However, Kill knows that this program is at an all-time low and it needs a culture change. The school isn't going to recruit until the on-field product is better. He is going with what he is familiar with and using his connections to get guys that he thinks can play and others may not notice. I happen to like his plan, so far.
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Where do you come up with this stuff? "This program is at an all-time low"??? What? The Gophers just finished a 3 year span of two typical Mason years (despite losing their best player both years) and one terrible season that still included 2 Big Ten wins (or about 1 less than our typical season). You have to go all the way back to the combination of Mason's last year/Brewster's first year to find a lower point. Further, all I have to do is say the name Jim Wacker and you can choose almost any point in his tenure to find a lower point. Not only is the Gopher program not at an "all-time low", unfortunately it's not even close to that point.

"The school isn't going to recruit until the on-field product is better" Wow, we can go all the way back to Tim Brewster's first year where he won all of one game, yet brought in a recruiting class that was the Gophers best class in 20 years. Then, you can look at Brewster's second year and see the second best recruiting class in the last 20 years or so without winning.

We have very recent examples to disprove both of your points. I am not trying to dissuade anyone from believing in Jerry Kill as a head coach, but their is no need to set the bar artificially low.
 

Settle Down

I think everyone needs to take it easy either way.

Of course this guy is not highly recruited or rated( hasn't been rated yet) because he will be playing FullBack for the gophers.
Throughout the big ten alone, think of all the great walkons over the years that have
been solid contributors at the college ball level as fullbacks. If so many walkons could do a good job, than a guy Jerry Kill wants for the position is fine by me.
He is going to be blocking first, running the ball 4th.

A fullback needs a good work ethic, willing to put your body on the line consistantly, and intelligence. These are not the skills that make a player highly rated like speed, agility, vision, and such.

Settle down, hes a fullback, his job is to block.

According to Rivals the 4th best Fullback in the whole class is rated a 5.6, and the 61st best player in his state alone. Does that say they rank fullbacks high or consider them highly valuable, or do teams covet them so? I would say no......
 

victor04 said:
I think everyone needs to take it easy either way.

Of course this guy is not highly recruited or rated( hasn't been rated yet) because he will be playing FullBack for the gophers.
Throughout the big ten alone, think of all the great walkons over the years that have
been solid contributors at the college ball level as fullbacks. If so many walkons could do a good job, than a guy Jerry Kill wants for the position is fine by me.
He is going to be blocking first, running the ball 4th.

A fullback needs a good work ethic, willing to put your body on the line consistantly, and intelligence. These are not the skills that make a player highly rated like speed, agility, vision, and such.

Settle down, hes a fullback, his job is to block.

According to Rivals the 4th best Fullback in the whole class is rated a 5.6, and the 61st best player in his state alone. Does that say they rank fullbacks high or consider them highly valuable, or do teams covet them so? I would say no......
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I don't dislike the signing as I said earlier in this thread, I will trust Coach Kill until I get proven otherwise. However, I do disagree with some of your logic.

#1: I don't think this kid is going to end up at FB because we don't really have a FB anymore. That position is more of an H-Back, which is kind of a different skill set than a FB. This kid is likely (IMO) going to be our big power back. Kill likes having at least 1 large RB (Cameron Bell at Northern Illinois was 245 lbs).

#2: If he is being recruited to play FB and it's so easy for a FB to b great who was a walk on, why would we ever waste a scholarship on him? It doesn't make sense.

In my opinion, Kill thinks this kid's stock is probably low because his HS team isn't very good and he see's his potential future power running back (not a fullback).
 



The kid is being recruited to play RB. He said he thinks of himself as an every down type of back. He could move to fullback after he gets on campus but he's not being recruited as one. I would guess Kill is looking at him as a power back. It's tough to see how good the kid really is because there isn't any tape out on him. Add that to a bad high school team with a bad offensive line and nothing about him really looks that impressive. Let the kid get on campus and show what he's got before writing him off.
 

atsgopher said:
I take issue with this type of thought process and I realize you are simply explaining the theory. However, the same could and should rightly be said in the converse. If he brings in kids that have high star ratings and they don't pan out he should criticized just the same as if one does it the other way.

He is putting himself on the line by coaching the Gophers; whether he follows the crowd or not is irrelevant. He shouldn't get a pass for thinking like everyone else because 50% of everyone else is wrong. Only 10% to 20% of coaches may be considered consistantly correct under these conditions. Thus in the same respect he should also not receuve criticism just because he is not thinking like everyone else. He just may turn out to be correct.

When you think of it there are something like 250 four and five star kids in the universe every year... there are rougly 3000 spots that need filling every year (8%) If Kill gets any in the top 8% he did well and in terms of Depth lets hope he does a good job evavluating the rest. In either regard, good coaching will be necessary and we'll just have to wait and see whether he can do it.
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Where did I say he gets a pass if he recruits kids with high rankings that don't pan out? He does put himself on the line everyday by coaching (I also never said he didn't), but decisions that go against the grain of the rest of college football coaches should, (and do) receive more scrutiny.

You should re-read my post. I also never said he should receive criticism just because he is picking recruits that the rest of BCS coaches are not offering. However, questioning them and criticism are two different things.

My point is when you make those decisions that are different than your peers, you should a) expect people to question them, and b) receive more criticism if those decisions turn out poorly.

Until we know for sure how his decisions will actually pan out, to simply turn a blind eye and say everything is perfectly fine is just as foolish as to call him a terrible coach. Until then, it is perfectly reasonable for some to wonder why he differs from his peers.
 

EG#9 said:
Where do you come up with this stuff? "This program is at an all-time low"??? What? The Gophers just finished a 3 year span of two typical Mason years (despite losing their best player both years) and one terrible season that still included 2 Big Ten wins (or about 1 less than our typical season). You have to go all the way back to the combination of Mason's last year/Brewster's first year to find a lower point. Further, all I have to do is say the name Jim Wacker and you can choose almost any point in his tenure to find a lower point. Not only is the Gopher program not at an "all-time low", unfortunately it's not even close to that point.

"The school isn't going to recruit until the on-field product is better" Wow, we can go all the way back to Tim Brewster's first year where he won all of one game, yet brought in a recruiting class that was the Gophers best class in 20 years. Then, you can look at Brewster's second year and see the second best recruiting class in the last 20 years or so without winning.

We have very recent examples to disprove both of your points. I am not trying to dissuade anyone from believing in Jerry Kill as a head coach, but their is no need to set the bar artificially low.
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Maybe I'm a little hard on the program, but Brewster was so bad that it clouds most people of the past. If you asked the average person on the street they would agree that is program was at an all-time low the day before Brewster was fired. They were not even competitive. A brand new stadium not filling up in the 2nd year of existance is an all-time low.

Kill made the comment on recruiting recently, that they need to take a chance on some kids like Theiren Cockran. "If Theiren was 230 lbs in HS we would have had no chance at him."

These are just an opinion.
 

josh087 said:
Until we know for sure how his decisions will actually pan out, to simply turn a blind eye and say everything is perfectly fine is just as foolish as to call him a terrible coach. Until then, it is perfectly reasonable for some to wonder why he differs from his peers.
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I think Kill has dealt with these concerns for 17 or more years. To this point he has proven everyone wrong.
 

MaxyJR1 said:
I think Kill has dealt with these concerns for 17 or more years. To this point he has proven everyone wrong.
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+1 His track record speaks for itself. I'm not assuming that he's going to be Williams, Bierman and Warmath all rolled into one, but he's earned the benefit of the doubt.
 



It looks like the kid is the complete package. Good grades, good character, and tough enough to wrestle, there are not a lot of big running backs like that.
 

His goals include playing professional football for the NFL, coaching College Football while attending Law School. He plans on receiving a degree in sports and entertainment law, all the while giving back to his community and continuing to help others.

smart kid...
 

stuck_in_scony_go4_fan said:
His goals include playing professional football for the NFL, coaching College Football while attending Law School. He plans on receiving a degree in sports and entertainment law, all the while giving back to his community and continuing to help others.

smart kid...
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"...and continued his education at Huffines Middle School". That school was later renamed "Nathan Arizona Memorial Middle School".
 

stuck_in_scony_go4_fan said:
His goals include playing professional football for the NFL, coaching College Football while attending Law School. He plans on receiving a degree in sports and entertainment law, all the while giving back to his community and continuing to help others.

smart kid...
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Sounds like he is going to follow in my footsteps ... U of M degree, followed by a J.D. and Sports Law Certificate at Marquette, the #1 Sports Law School in the country. :cool:
 

Unregistered User said:
"...and continued his education at Huffines Middle School". That school was later renamed "Nathan Arizona Memorial Middle School".
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Nice. Would you by furniture from a place called Unpainted Huffines?!!?
 


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