NDSU HC leaving for USC assistant role

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disco said:
In the early season when it's nicer, playing outdoors is a benefit. Football in the Fargodome is like watching a game in a dismal warehouse. It's really a strange environment.

Some might say that the cold weather is a benefit for the playoffs if some warmer climate team has to come up here. I don't know if that's really true.

It's really odd that USD has a dome in tiny Vermillion, and has had it since the 1980's or so.
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SDSU averaged over 18,000 per game in the regular season but only just over 10,000 for playoffs. It has been a struggle to get turnout as the season wears on and the weather turns colder and there is increasing competition from other activities both at the university and highschool/youth.

But the gameday experience is fantastic and the atmosphere electric, even more so with smaller, dedicated playoff crowds. I think during nice weather, Dana J Dykhouse Stadium provides the best, true college FB experience of the four dakota schools. And it is capable of expansion should it ever be necessary if, for instance, there is a move to FBS.

No one is building a dome for SDSU. Both UND and NDSU play in municipal buildings, which have allowed those schools to avoid huge capital stadium expenses, but have also been something of a hinderence, too. See the recently failed referendum in Fargo to bring the Fargodome up to date on basic modern fan amenities. The Alerus Center is small. And the Fargodome while appropriately sized now, isn't capable of expansion should it be necessary.

NDSU does have a dedicated indoor facility but SDSU's facility, while shared with the track program, is an excellent facility, even capable of hosting the spring game. And SDSU does have a dedicated facility attached to stadium and indoor facility for the FB program. UND also has a shared indoor facility that is comparable to but less impressive than SDSU's facility.

USD has the Dakota Dome and while it recently underwent, it is small (max 9100 people but appropriately sized, USD doesn't draw) and is a dump. It was built very cheaply but was very utilitarian, until recently housing almost all sports, including swimming, and intramurals. I believe it still hosts track and softball in addition to football. USD built a dome and SDSU built the Stan Marshall HPER Center which included Frist Arena, which is now undergoing extensive renovations and will be known as First Bank and Trust Arena. I don't know the exact history but the SD legislature has always treated the two schools equally and both projects happened at about the same time.
 

laazrakit said:
Yep... and not long ago, they were playing DIII football. In the last couple of seasons, while on probation, they've been crushing Pioneer teams (with one loss to Drake) using essentially DIII players. How long until they're politely asked to move on from the Pioneer League? If St. Thomas jumps to the Missouri Valley Football Conference, NDSU will be in trouble. That school does rely on MN players to fill out their roster, year after year. Finally, there is a FCS alternative for kids to stay home. Granted, St. Thomas won't be a real viable alternative until they step up and start offering football scholarships... but how long before they're basically forced to do it? It'll be interesting to see what happens when they're through the silly probationary period that the NCAA is forcing them to endure.

Even if St. Thomas ends up remaining in the Pioneer League, the fact that the SD schools have been beating NDSU at their own game means that the Bison are never going to be what they were... much like Nebraska. Maybe they'll both eventually settle for a good to great season every few years. Neither are likely to return to their glory years, though. Competition for players has gotten quite competitive... and don't think that the transfer portal won't start hurting NDSU as well. Good players might stay in Fargo, but the great ones will be chasing the NIL money.
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That's a big if for St. Thomas. I think it just as likely they drop FB as opposed to go scholarship. They won't get booted from the Pioneer. All those schools are athletic platypusses that need each other. I don't view Pioneer FB players as much more than DIII talent. I think the long game for St. Thomas is Big East and FB will be an ancillary afterthought.

SDSU is the only school that's been able to match NDSU and sustain success. USD and UND have had flashes but no sustained success. USD was a fraud this year. UND was a fraud. Both caught lightning in a bottle against NDSU in the regular season. Don't get me wrong, I'm no Bison fan, but the rumors of NDSU's demise are greatly exaggerated.
 

swede2 said:
That's a big if for St. Thomas. I think it just as likely they drop FB as opposed to go scholarship. They won't get booted from the Pioneer. All those schools are athletic platypusses that need each other. I don't view Pioneer FB players as much more than DIII talent. I think the long game for St. Thomas is Big East and FB will be an ancillary afterthought.

SDSU is the only school that's been able to match NDSU and sustain success. USD and UND have had flashes but no sustained success. USD was a fraud this year. UND was a fraud. Both caught lightning in a bottle against NDSU in the regular season. Don't get me wrong, I'm no Bison fan, but the rumors of NDSU's demise are greatly exaggerated.
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The other big issue with St. Thomas is that to move up to MVFC level football, they'd have to find a place to play. O'Shaughnessy Stadium is really old and only holds around 5000 people. I was really surprised they were able to find space to build the new hockey arena on campus. There's just no room over there. And no, they won't play at Allianz - I don't think the Loons will ever allow another football game there because of what it does to the turf.
 

swede2 said:
SDSU averaged over 18,000 per game in the regular season but only just over 10,000 for playoffs. It has been a struggle to get turnout as the season wears on and the weather turns colder and there is increasing competition from other activities both at the university and highschool/youth.
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NDSU has struggled for attendance as of late for late season games and the playoffs too.
Their attendance is down overall due to fan apathy from beating up on everyone, but in addition to what you mention about other sports activities, that time of year is hunting season, and that really does take a bite out of attendance out there.

swede2 said:
No one is building a dome for SDSU. Both UND and NDSU play in municipal buildings, which have allowed those schools to avoid huge capital stadium expenses, but have also been something of a hinderence, too. See the recently failed referendum in Fargo to bring the Fargodome up to date on basic modern fan amenities. The Alerus Center is small. And the Fargodome while appropriately sized now, isn't capable of expansion should it be necessary.
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USD is a surprisingly small school. It's only about the size of Winona State and it's not close to anything or any major highways.

A lot of people don't realize that the Fargodome isn't technically part of NDSU's campus, because it's right next door. Not surprising that the referendum failed - people up there are cheap. But it desperately needs a refresh. It was built in the 1990's (my buddies and I actually sneaked in to the building when it was under construction). Imagine Target Center if literally nothing had been done to upgrade it - that's basically the Fargodome. Unless some huge donor builds them a stadium, they're stuck - the state isn't going to pay for a new building for the university.

1. Because they're cheap.
2. Because then UND would expect some equal level of investment for something.

At least something like the Kibbie Dome in Idaho is unique and charming. The Fargodome is terrible.
 

Depends what you mean by “upgrade” but the Fargodome has had new lighting, video boards, sound system, field turf (used to be like Astroturf of the Metrodone), and I think added some suites.

More than nothing, but no major structural renovations.
 


disco said:
NDSU has struggled for attendance as of late for late season games and the playoffs too.
Their attendance is down overall due to fan apathy from beating up on everyone, but in addition to what you mention about other sports activities, that time of year is hunting season, and that really does take a bite out of attendance out there.


USD is a surprisingly small school. It's only about the size of Winona State and it's not close to anything or any major highways.

A lot of people don't realize that the Fargodome isn't technically part of NDSU's campus, because it's right next door. Not surprising that the referendum failed - people up there are cheap. But it desperately needs a refresh. It was built in the 1990's (my buddies and I actually sneaked in to the building when it was under construction). Imagine Target Center if literally nothing had been done to upgrade it - that's basically the Fargodome. Unless some huge donor builds them a stadium, they're stuck - the state isn't going to pay for a new building for the university.

1. Because they're cheap.
2. Because then UND would expect some equal level of investment for something.

At least something like the Kibbie Dome in Idaho is unique and charming. The Fargodome is terrible.
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NDSU admin has also gouged the faithful on ticket prices. There is, apparently, a cutoff to the sycophancy.

And as the FCS waters down, the average fan wonders "who" when playoff teams come to town. On paper, SDSU has a favorable bracket (as the #1seed should) but Mercer, Villinova and Albany don't exactly get the average fan's blood boiling to go sit out in the cold.
 

swede2 said:
NDSU admin has also gouged the faithful on ticket prices. There is, apparently, a cutoff to the sycophancy.

And as the FCS waters down, the average fan wonders "who" when playoff teams come to town. On paper, SDSU has a favorable bracket (as the #1seed should) but Mercer, Villinova and Albany don't exactly get the average fan's blood boiling to go sit out in the cold.
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Correct. At least Villanova is a pretty well known school because of their hoops program. I literally had to look up where Mercer was, and Albany isn't even one of the two flagships of the SUNY system (for trivia purposes, they're Buffalo and Stony Brook)
 





disco said:
Stearns County is much, much worse than Fargo in every way.
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As I like to say about France.
Collegeville is a lovely little place. Just a shame it's wasted on the Johnnies!
 

swede2 said:
SDSU averaged over 18,000 per game in the regular season but only just over 10,000 for playoffs. It has been a struggle to get turnout as the season wears on and the weather turns colder and there is increasing competition from other activities both at the university and highschool/youth.

But the gameday experience is fantastic and the atmosphere electric, even more so with smaller, dedicated playoff crowds. I think during nice weather, Dana J Dykhouse Stadium provides the best, true college FB experience of the four dakota schools. And it is capable of expansion should it ever be necessary if, for instance, there is a move to FBS.

No one is building a dome for SDSU. Both UND and NDSU play in municipal buildings, which have allowed those schools to avoid huge capital stadium expenses, but have also been something of a hinderence, too. See the recently failed referendum in Fargo to bring the Fargodome up to date on basic modern fan amenities. The Alerus Center is small. And the Fargodome while appropriately sized now, isn't capable of expansion should it be necessary.

NDSU does have a dedicated indoor facility but SDSU's facility, while shared with the track program, is an excellent facility, even capable of hosting the spring game. And SDSU does have a dedicated facility attached to stadium and indoor facility for the FB program. UND also has a shared indoor facility that is comparable to but less impressive than SDSU's facility.

USD has the Dakota Dome and while it recently underwent, it is small (max 9100 people but appropriately sized, USD doesn't draw) and is a dump. It was built very cheaply but was very utilitarian, until recently housing almost all sports, including swimming, and intramurals. I believe it still hosts track and softball in addition to football. USD built a dome and SDSU built the Stan Marshall HPER Center which included Frist Arena, which is now undergoing extensive renovations and will be known as First Bank and Trust Arena. I don't know the exact history but the SD legislature has always treated the two schools equally and both projects happened at about the same time.
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USD’s dome isn’t a dump and since they built the basketball/volleyball arena next-door and have done other upgrades, their facilities are fine. The town was perfect when they were D2 because you could recruit most of the players within a 200 mile radius and be super competitive– – although they had some down years. It’s just a really hard town to recruit one level higher athlete. The school itself is awesome very well thought of and offers a lot of majors that they don’t in Brookings. Brookings is just a much nicer town; a better place to spend five years than Vermillion. I had scholarship offers to both back in the day, and it was an easy choice to go red but even some of my teammates kids have ended up wearing the blue and yellow. It’s just a better option nowadays in a lot of ways. Attendance is abysmal right now in Vermilion even with the dome seating a couple of thousand less nothing close to sell out ever happens and back in the day. It wasn’t unusual to have 10,000+ there.
 

NDSU hires former assistant (2 stints) and current Wyoming OC Polesek. Also had a stint as OL coach at Iowa.

The players had been pulling hard, in a very public fashion, for current OC Tyler Roehl. It will be interesting to see what happens with the current staff and especially the players. Lots of portal rumors in Fargo. A number of Bison committed took OVs to Brookings. For those who like or would like to see turmoil in North Fargo, this might be your shot.
 




swede2 said:
NDSU admin has also gouged the faithful on ticket prices. There is, apparently, a cutoff to the sycophancy.

And as the FCS waters down, the average fan wonders "who" when playoff teams come to town. On paper, SDSU has a favorable bracket (as the #1seed should) but Mercer, Villinova and Albany don't exactly get the average fan's blood boiling to go sit out in the cold.
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The CAA still plays pretty good ball. As evidenced by Nova and Albany making it that far.
 

15 minutes to his job in Fargo. 2 hours in LA. Thanks but no thanks.
 



laazrakit said:
Yep... and not long ago, they were playing DIII football. In the last couple of seasons, while on probation, they've been crushing Pioneer teams (with one loss to Drake) using essentially DIII players. How long until they're politely asked to move on from the Pioneer League? If St. Thomas jumps to the Missouri Valley Football Conference, NDSU will be in trouble. That school does rely on MN players to fill out their roster, year after year. Finally, there is a FCS alternative for kids to stay home. Granted, St. Thomas won't be a real viable alternative until they step up and start offering football scholarships... but how long before they're basically forced to do it? It'll be interesting to see what happens when they're through the silly probationary period that the NCAA is forcing them to endure.

Even if St. Thomas ends up remaining in the Pioneer League, the fact that the SD schools have been beating NDSU at their own game means that the Bison are never going to be what they were... much like Nebraska. Maybe they'll both eventually settle for a good to great season every few years. Neither are likely to return to their glory years, though. Competition for players has gotten quite competitive... and don't think that the transfer portal won't start hurting NDSU as well. Good players might stay in Fargo, but the great ones will be chasing the NIL money.
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It says just as much about the Pioneer League as it says about St. Thomas.

The Pioneer League is 2-10 in FCS playoffs and most games haven't been close. You could argue their only close games are the two they won and then proceeded to get smoked in the second round.
 

MNfootballfan said:
It says just as much about the Pioneer League as it says about St. Thomas.

The Pioneer League is 2-10 in FCS playoffs and most games haven't been close. You could argue their only close games are the two they won and then proceeded to get smoked in the second round.
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Of course... It's got nothing to do with the quality of football that the Pioneer League plays, though... Rather, are the Tommies going to be willing to settle for that brand of football? Are the rest of the Pioneer schools going to put up with St. Thomas... or will they ask the Tommies to move on? (it's certainly happened to them before.) It's all going to come down to money, that's for sure. Maybe they'll be forced to stay in the Pioneer League due to a lack of facilities, etc.

I remember reading that the school was trying to buy the Town & Country golf course, which is next door... The school mentioned needing space for a hockey arena... Obviously, hockey/basketball are the primary basis of the school's leap into D1, but school officials also said that they're not looking to build a football stadium "until the school can fill 20,000 seats." Do they want to be able to fill 20,000 seats?

(The school got a record 75 million dollar donation for a hockey/basketball arena... Will someone be stepping up to help the school fund a football stadium? )

It's going to get interesting when the Tommies get through their probationary period and start playing for real... (I believe that'll be in 2026.) Minnesota has needed a DI-AA school for years, as evidenced by the 20-30+ kids that go west to play at NDSU each year. I wouldn't have picked the Tommies to be that school, but they're what we've got.
 



Word said:
Don't you know? It takes 2 hours to travel 1 block in LA. /s
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That doesn't even take into account all the times you'll probably get shot at on your daily commute because big cities are scary, /s
 

laazrakit said:
Of course... It's got nothing to do with the quality of football that the Pioneer League plays, though... Rather, are the Tommies going to be willing to settle for that brand of football? Are the rest of the Pioneer schools going to put up with St. Thomas... or will they ask the Tommies to move on? (it's certainly happened to them before.) It's all going to come down to money, that's for sure. Maybe they'll be forced to stay in the Pioneer League due to a lack of facilities, etc.

I remember reading that the school was trying to buy the Town & Country golf course, which is next door... The school mentioned needing space for a hockey arena... Obviously, hockey/basketball are the primary basis of the school's leap into D1, but school officials also said that they're not looking to build a football stadium "until the school can fill 20,000 seats." Do they want to be able to fill 20,000 seats?

(The school got a record 75 million dollar donation for a hockey/basketball arena... Will someone be stepping up to help the school fund a football stadium? )

It's going to get interesting when the Tommies get through their probationary period and start playing for real... (I believe that'll be in 2026.) Minnesota has needed a DI-AA school for years, as evidenced by the 20-30+ kids that go west to play at NDSU each year. I wouldn't have picked the Tommies to be that school, but they're what we've got.
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I agree with what you are saying and I am generally curious which way St. Thomas wants to go. If they wanted to pour money into their football program I have absolutely zero doubts they would compete with the Dakota schools. So far in their transition, it appears football has taken a backseat to some other sports. Like you said, they are still very successful in their league, but they haven't invested in the sport with scholarships, facilities, etc. I truly don't think they will steal many recruits from any of the Dakota's until they become a scholarship program. I can see them getting some Dakota kids that transfer out and want to play closer to home.

I just said this over in the basketball board but I would be absolutely shocked if St. Thomas wasn't in the Big East in 5-10 years. Within a couple of recruiting classes I think they will pass all the Dakota schools.
 

MNfootballfan said:
I agree with what you are saying and I am generally curious which way St. Thomas wants to go. If they wanted to pour money into their football program I have absolutely zero doubts they would compete with the Dakota schools. So far in their transition, it appears football has taken a backseat to some other sports. Like you said, they are still very successful in their league, but they haven't invested in the sport with scholarships, facilities, etc. I truly don't think they will steal many recruits from any of the Dakota's until they become a scholarship program. I can see them getting some Dakota kids that transfer out and want to play closer to home.

I just said this over in the basketball board but I would be absolutely shocked if St. Thomas wasn't in the Big East in 5-10 years. Within a couple of recruiting classes I think they will pass all the Dakota schools.
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If that's the case (Big East) they'll be looking to expand the basketball arena before the football stadium. Schoenecker is nice, but not big by even D3 standards.
 



Regardless how much money they have, how do they solve Title IX going to fill-scholarship FCS?

Don’t get me wrong, Villanova does it in the Big East. So it is possible.

But I suspect they’d have to cut some men’s sports.
 

Taking a look real quick … I don’t know how Villanova does it, to be honest.

They have 10 out of 10 Big East men’s sports, including all track, golf, and baseball. And then CAA full-scholarship football.

They have 10 out of 11 Big East women’s sports (no golf), plus rowing and water polo.


So I guess that’s the blueprint. Don’t know what UST has, but adding women’s sports like rowing, water polo, field hockey, is a way to go.

EDIT: UST has 8 of 9 Summit men’s sports (including baseball, critical for the SL) plus ice hockey and non-scholarship football. And they have 10 out of 10 Summit women’s sports plus ice hockey. No lacrosse, rowing, field hockey, or water polo. So those are all there.
 

disco said:
That doesn't even take into account all the times you'll probably get shot at on your daily commute because big cities are scary, /s
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I got murdered twice just thinking about it!
 

MNfootballfan said:
it appears football has taken a backseat to some other sports. Like you said, they are still very successful in their league, but they haven't invested in the sport with scholarships, facilities, etc
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For sure... but is that due to St. Thomas, knowing that they're on probation and prohibited from post-season playoffs( for 2 more years), just keeping things on the back burner, so to speak? They don't have to make any decisions for a couple of years, at least.
 

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