NC St QB Grayson McCall retires due to head injuries

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GophersInIowa

GophersInIowa

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Not sure if he had a chance to play in the NFL or not but he was a stud at Coastal Carolina. I feel for him.

 






Word said:
It will be interesting to see what ends up happening to Tua later in life. I fear it will not go well.
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The way Tua is going he isn't going to make it to later in life, he is going to end up dying on the field. The fact that he is coming back after multiple serious concussions is just ridiculous. I hope at the very least he will be wearing that extra shell on his helmet that is becoming more common but dude should be retiring while he still has some use of his brain left.

As for the NC State kid....always sucks when players have to hang it up early for health reasons.
 

I was thinking the NFL could require guardian cap when coming back from concussion, but then realized that may invite liability.
 

Like in many things if there is a clear understanding of risk then an individual should have agency. There are many dangerous occupations out there. I hope they don’t all quit. Sure, make it as safe as reasonably possible. Most players wouldn’t change the past or their opportunities. Nothing wrong with making the less risky choice.

Recently a hiker slipped and died on Half Dome and there were again calls to close the somewhat sketchy cable section. Semi-famous climber Alex Hohnold was asked about it and maybe said it best: people have transformative experiences making that pitch, exorcising personal demons, and gaining an immense sense of personal accomplishment overcoming fear and exhaustion. All of which is to say, sometimes to live and grow there has to be some amount of manageable risk.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Like in many things if there is a clear understanding of risk then an individual should have agency. There are many dangerous occupations out there. I hope they don’t all quit. Sure, make it as safe as reasonably possible. Most players wouldn’t change the past or their opportunities. Nothing wrong with making the less risky choice.

Recently a hiker slipped and died on Half Dome and there were again calls to close the somewhat sketchy cable section. Semi-famous climber Alex Hohnold was asked about it and maybe said it best: people have transformative experiences making that pitch, exorcising personal demons, and gaining an immense sense of personal accomplishment overcoming fear and exhaustion. All of which is to say, sometimes to live and grow there has to be some amount of manageable risk.
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Hiking half dome which 50k people do a year with 25 total deaths (there have been more people who die hiking up the mist trail than actually on the cables, and having been there when someone died, yeah it's awful) and equating it to an occupation are grossly dissimilar. There is no financial incentive to hiking nor fame/glory. Honnold is also the same guy who aborted his El Capitan ascent because he felt off about it (if you haven't watched free solo or the alpinist, highly recommend as both are incredible and very much in the thread of what he and you are saying). If you want to say Tua's choice/the NFL situation is similar to deep sea oil rigging or something, sure.
 



HitMeAgainIAmStillMoving said:
I was thinking the NFL could require guardian cap when coming back from concussion, but then realized that may invite liability.
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I won't be shocked if we hit a point where the guardian cap is required. Starting to see more and more players wearing them and apparently they really do help cut down on concussions.

Tua however has said he won't wear one. Apparently he has the safest style of helmet out there designed for QBs but for someone like him who has had multiple severe concussions you would think he would want to take any and all precautions if he is going to keep playing. Seems crazy to me that he isn't going to wear one but in the end it is his choice no matter how foolish it might seem.
 

upnorthkid said:
Hiking half dome which 50k people do a year with 25 total deaths (there have been more people who die hiking up the mist trail than actually on the cables, and having been there when someone died, yeah it's awful) and equating it to an occupation are grossly dissimilar. There is no financial incentive to hiking nor fame/glory. Honnold is also the same guy who aborted his El Capitan ascent because he felt off about it (if you haven't watched free solo or the alpinist, highly recommend as both are incredible and very much in the thread of what he and you are saying). If you want to say Tua's choice/the NFL situation is similar to deep sea oil rigging or something, sure.
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My point is, every time this topic comes up there is gross hyperbole of the risks of football while ignoring the benefits. See above the statement Tua is going to die on the field. Sure, maybe, it can never be ruled out but those incidents are thankfully very, very rare.

Some people want to ban football, or otherwise reduce risky avocations. Fine, arguable and there is a discussion to be had but people should know some of the most anxiety-riddled folks on the planet exist in the medical and scientific arenas. There is a balance between living life and risk.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
My point is, every time this topic comes up there is gross hyperbole of the risks of football while ignoring the benefits. See above the statement Tua is going to die on the field. Sure, maybe, it can never be ruled out but those incidents are thankfully very, very rare.

Some people want to ban football, or otherwise reduce risky avocations. Fine, arguable and there is a discussion to be had but people should know some of the most anxiety-riddled folks on the planet exist in the medical and scientific arenas. There is a balance between living life and risk.
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No offense but to me Tua is in a different category of risk at this point. He has had 4 confirmed concussions and at least 2 of them were so severe that it caused a fencing response which apparently means his brain essentially shut down from the trauma.

The dude is risking serious lifelong brain damage at this point. His life, his risk to take but it is a shame he can't walk away before he sustains an injury he can't come back from. Hopefully it never happens but has been well documented that it gets easier and easier to get concussions the more of them you have.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
My point is, every time this topic comes up there is gross hyperbole of the risks of football while ignoring the benefits. See above the statement Tua is going to die on the field. Sure, maybe, it can never be ruled out but those incidents are thankfully very, very rare.

Some people want to ban football, or otherwise reduce risky avocations. Fine, arguable and there is a discussion to be had but people should know some of the most anxiety-riddled folks on the planet exist in the medical and scientific arenas. There is a balance between living life and risk.
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Tua should talk to Ben Utecht (or numerous other former pro NHL and NFL players) and see if it's worth it. Hopefully has been advised properly.
 



This makes me think of my son, he played all through high school, and was a pretty good player. He started his junior and senior seasons. When he started to show some promise, I asked him if he wanted to play in college, he was about 14 or 15 at the time. He told me he did some research, and the percentage of players in HS with severe head injuries was within his tolerance of risk, but the way it climbed in college made him decide the risk was not worth it to play at that level. He's a bright kid.

He has a good head on his shoulders.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
My point is, every time this topic comes up there is gross hyperbole of the risks of football while ignoring the benefits. See above the statement Tua is going to die on the field. Sure, maybe, it can never be ruled out but those incidents are thankfully very, very rare.

Some people want to ban football, or otherwise reduce risky avocations. Fine, arguable and there is a discussion to be had but people should know some of the most anxiety-riddled folks on the planet exist in the medical and scientific arenas. There is a balance between living life and risk.
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sure that's fair. heat and head injuries are the 2 big, life threatening risks. don't think anyone here is saying ban football.
 

Word said:
Tua should talk to Ben Utecht (or numerous other former pro NHL and NFL players) and see if it's worth it. Hopefully has been advised properly.
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Knowing a little about what Tua's dad is like, I'm going to guess retiring from the game isn't an easy option for him.
 

When I read stories like this, I think of Chris Borland who was great at Wisconsin and in all likelihood would have been a solid LB at the pro level. It takes courage to make a decision like this because I'm sure there's pressure--and often a desire--to keep playing. I don't begrudge any player making the decision they make, but when one sees all stories about broken-down retired football players suffering from the damage that their body and mind often take, I wonder why more don't follow the examples of Borland and McCall.
 

50PoundHead said:
When I read stories like this, I think of Chris Borland who was great at Wisconsin and in all likelihood would have been a solid LB at the pro level. It takes courage to make a decision like this because I'm sure there's pressure--and often a desire--to keep playing. I don't begrudge any player making the decision they make, but when one sees all stories about broken-down retired football players suffering from the damage that their body and mind often take, I wonder why more don't follow the examples of Borland and McCall.
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You do see guys like Aaron Donald, J.J Watt, Robert Smith, Barry Sanders.....walk away while still paying at a really high level.
 

MNVCGUY said:
The way Tua is going he isn't going to make it to later in life, he is going to end up dying on the field. The fact that he is coming back after multiple serious concussions is just ridiculous. I hope at the very least he will be wearing that extra shell on his helmet that is becoming more common but dude should be retiring while he still has some use of his brain left.

As for the NC State kid....always sucks when players have to hang it up early for health reasons.
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That’s a little dramatic
 

Gopherchase said:
That’s a little dramatic
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Maybe a little but 2 of his concussions have been of the extreme variety. Going forward he has to be smart and protect himself to avoid getting another concussion if at all possible.
 

Unregistered User said:
This makes me think of my son, he played all through high school, and was a pretty good player. He started his junior and senior seasons. When he started to show some promise, I asked him if he wanted to play in college, he was about 14 or 15 at the time. He told me he did some research, and the percentage of players in HS with severe head injuries was within his tolerance of risk, but the way it climbed in college made him decide the risk was not worth it to play at that level. He's a bright kid.

He has a good head on his shoulders.
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I think the risk for head injuries playing college is tolerable. I haven’t seen really any traces of issues in my peer group. Just one guys opinion and observation. A lot of us played 1500 or more snaps. What is a huge issue is joint degeneration I was together with nine of them on a fishing trip this summer we’re not quite 60 and I think there were 12 artificial joints and a few more on the near horizon. That part has surprised me over time. I give PJ shit about not tackling and hitting much in practice. I think it shows up sometimes in the games, but maybe he’s onto something. Back in the day there was a lot of contact during spring ball ya got beat to hell; and then during the game day week especially on Tuesdays and Wednesdays a lot of full contact.
 

Word said:
Tua should talk to Ben Utecht (or numerous other former pro NHL and NFL players) and see if it's worth it. Hopefully has been advised properly.
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With all due respect the long term impact of concussion and incidence of neurodegenerative issues varies widely. Are football players not aware of the risks, in 2024? We all make risk/benefit decisions daily. Tolerance varies. Sometimes the potential benefits outweigh potential downsides.
 

upnorthkid said:
sure that's fair. heat and head injuries are the 2 big, life threatening risks. don't think anyone here is saying ban football.
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Not here, but predictable handwringing about somebody else’s decision is odd. There are plenty of calls from others to ban the game, damn the knock on effects. The overall absolute risk is still very, very low. We know in rough terms the numbers of direct, indirect deaths. The relative risk of football versus a eg high school ban with subsequent aimless young men, loss of purpose, loss of camaraderie, loss of mentorship, lifetime habitual physical fitness loss is more difficult to calculate. Shades of the extended COVID school closure decisions. We aren’t good at calculating risks, or potential risks. It’s arguable.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
With all due respect the long term impact of concussion and incidence of neurodegenerative issues varies widely. Are football players not aware of the risks, in 2024? We all make risk/benefit decisions daily. Tolerance varies. Sometimes the potential benefits outweigh potential downsides.
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There's a difference when you've had multiple severe concussions. Successive concussions are more severe and easier to get. Not to mention the potential for memory lossater in life.

I'm not saying it should be banned. He's an adult and can make his own decisions. My hunch is he may regret it later in life. If he was my son or brother I'd encourage him to stop.
 

Word said:
There's a difference when you've had multiple severe concussions. Successive concussions are more severe and easier to get. Not to mention the potential for memory lossater in life.

I'm not saying it should be banned. He's an adult and can make his own decisions. My hunch is he may regret it later in life. If he was my son or brother I'd encourage him to stop.
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For every study that shows reduced cognitive function, memory there’s another that shows little or no effect, or maybe the study was never published as is often the case. Confounding factors, effect size, clinical relevance. I realize it makes “sense” that repeated injury could cause long term issues in some people but it’s a nuanced discussion. I personally feel there probably is an association with long term issues but it’s rare, and I wouldn’t ban, say, bicycles either because of the real benefits. It would be unethical to scare the shit out of every kid or adult that suffers TBI, that they’ll never be the same. The only people who benefit from this talk are the attorneys.

My concern is unintended consequences. Tua could well be gambling his long term health but I’m sure he’s been counseled.
 

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