Myron's top 10 college basketball coaches

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Athlon's has its rankings of coaches in each conference. They have Tubby as 7th in the Big Ten and not ranked in the Top 30 in the nation:

http://www.athlonsports.com/college-basketball/ranking-big-tens-basketball-coaches-0

"7. Tubby Smith, Minnesota

Overall record: 490-213 (29-15 in the NCAA Tournament)

Record at Minnesota: 103-68 (38-49 Big Ten)

Smith had trouble keeping the fans in Lexington happy near the end of his tenure, but he has an enviable track record nonetheless, including the 1998 national title and 16 NCAA Tournament appearances. Along with Beilein, he’s one of eight coaches to take four teams to the Tournament (Tulsa, Georgia, Kentucky, Minnesota). Despite going 12-24 in the Big Ten the last two seasons, Minnesota may be poised for a bounce-back season in 2012-13."

Go Gophers!!
 

I am not sure I put Beilein ahead of Tubby and Crean creeps me out but seems fair enough. Huge drop between 7 and 8.
 

SelectionSunday said:
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebask...896/athlon-izzo-is-the-best-coach-in-the-game
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I know this has been said many times: Myron is clueless. Izzo is great but his sideline stuff really bothers me. He works the refs all game long. Anybody who has Bo Ryan number 10 in the country knows nothing about basketball.

It has been very hard to beat MSU, UW, OSU .... at home because refs are afraid of these coaches. This is a reason that B1G teams have not won anything big for a while now. Once the refs are from a different conference, watch out.

What I am trying to say is if you go by the number of wins to evaluate the coaches, you have a very wrong and missleading method.

I think PSU's coach did very well last season based on the amount of talent that he had.

Go Gophers
 

I'd say Bo is underrated at #10

The-Real-Truth said:
Anybody who has Bo Ryan number 10 in the country knows nothing about basketball.
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Have to strongly diagree with that.

Certainly Bo is annoying, especially to most Gopher fans, but if anything I'd say Myron has The Grinch underrated at #10. Not that the Badgers have been devoid of talent during his tenure, but I'd say pretty da*n near every season Bo gets the most out of his teams (and then some). And it's not like he's been devoid of postseason success. There's been a couple BTT championships (2004, 2008), some Sweet 16s (2003, 2008, 2011, 2012), and an Elite 8 (2005) to go along with three B1G regular-season titles (2002, 2003, 2008).
 


SelectionSunday said:
Have to strongly diagree with that.

Certainly Bo is annoying, especially to most Gopher fans, but if anything I'd say Myron has The Grinch underrated at #10. Not that the Badgers have been devoid of talent during his tenure, but I'd say pretty da*n near every season Bo gets the most out of his teams (and then some). And it's not like he's been devoid of postseason success. There's been a couple BTT championships (2004, 2008), some Sweet 16s (2003, 2008, 2011, 2012), and an Elite 8 (2005) to go along with a pair of B1G regular-season titles (2003, 2008).
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SS, wasn’t an ESPN writer last year who said that his biggest fear was the transformation of collage basketball to Bo Ryan’s style? Again because he has been winning doesn’t mean that he is a good coach. He has been playing anti-basketball style of basketball. I am not sure how he could be ranked as # 10 or higher when he only destroys the game? I was told that B1G used to be fun until he joined this conference. Like I said before, it is almost impossible to win on the road when you play the top dogs in B1G only because of the refs. We had two games last year or a year before that OSU, IL, and MSU players had basket interference. I remember one of the assistant coaches went to the ref in every one of those occasions and got nowhere. You tell me if they would do that against Bo and others.

As little credit Tubby gets these days, we should not forget that Gophers are relaxed when they play in neutral environment. We have beaten UL, UNC, WVU, Purdue, and MSU during post season. Our players have been mentally strong when they have played 5 on 5 not 5 on 8.

Go Gophers
 


The-Real-Truth: " Again because he has been winning doesn’t mean that he is a good coach."

Then losing doesn't make a coach a bad coach. Can't have it both ways.

Making stupid comments doesn't make a commentor stupid either.
 

I'm positively speechless with that logic. How does a guy argue with that?

At least now I know that when the Gophers lose against the big boys -- more specifically Wisconsin -- it's always because of the striped shirts.
 





UWOle said:
You forgot one. :cool:

UW shared the regular season title in Bo's first season (2001-02), then won it outright in 2002-03 and 2007-08.
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Thanks, I missed that one. I stand corrected (edited above).
 

SelectionSunday said:
I'm positively speechless with that logic. How does a guy argue with that?

At least now I know that when the Gophers lose against the big boys -- more specifically Wisconsin -- it's always because of the striped shirts.
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SS, I am not saying that every loss was caused by bad calls. What I am trying to say is that we have lost so many close games for the last few years. These games could have easily gone our way if some bad calls were not made. I am not making excuses for anyone. I am just trying to say that wins or losses are not the best criteria to evaluate a coach. For example, I really like NorthWestern's coach. No mather who he has on the court, they always play the same way with lots of directions. I have yet to see Bo Ryan make a play during a timeout or during the game. Compare his coaching with Izzo. Izzo is a chess player (Tubby used to be also). His team comes out of a timeout and then boom score a basket. What Bo Ryan says to his playesr is go play hard. Anybody can do that. This ugly style of basketball is not what I enjoy watching.

My top 3 coaches in B1G are Izzo, Painter, and Northwestern's (forgot the name). Painter's teams always play with lots of directions also. I enjoy watching these teams besides our Gophers.


SS, one example of bad call was a year before last when we played MSU here. We had that game. It was going to be a great win. One of the last plays was a run that Austin made to the basket. He was fouled by Green. Even my 8 years old called that but not the refs. Anyway, Lets hope for a great season. I am done with this topic.

Go Gophers
 



Dr.Don said:
The-Real-Truth: " Again because he has been winning doesn’t mean that he is a good coach."

Then losing doesn't make a coach a bad coach. Can't have it both ways.

Making stupid comments doesn't make a commentor stupid either.
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Sober up sir. That's exactly what I am saying wins or losses are not the best criteria.

Go Gophers
 

Actually, it would be interesting to rank each coach as to how their Big Ten winning percentage ranks versus other coaches at the same program. Carmody would go way up, Ryan I think would go way up, Crean way down, others I am not so sure about.
 

The-Real-Truth said:
SS, I am not saying that every loss was caused by bad calls. What I am trying to say is that we have lost so many close games for the last few years. These games could have easily gone our way if some bad calls were not made. I am not making excuses for anyone. I am just trying to say that wins or losses are not the best criteria to evaluate a coach. For example, I really like NorthWestern's coach. No mather who he has on the court, they always play the same way with lots of directions. I have yet to see Bo Ryan make a play during a timeout or during the game. Compare his coaching with Izzo. Izzo is a chess player (Tubby used to be also). His team comes out of a timeout and then boom score a basket. What Bo Ryan says to his playesr is go play hard. Anybody can do that. This ugly style of basketball is not what I enjoy watching.

My top 3 coaches in B1G are Izzo, Painter, and Northwestern's (forgot the name). Painter's teams always play with lots of directions also. I enjoy watching these teams besides our Gophers.


SS, one example of bad call was a year before last when we played MSU here. We had that game. It was going to be a great win. One of the last plays was a run that Austin made to the basket. He was fouled by Green. Even my 8 years old called that but not the refs. Anyway, Lets hope for a great season. I am done with this topic.

Go Gophers
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Examine MSU's recruiting rankings over Bo Ryan's tenure to those of Wisconsin. Now examine their Big Ten and head to head records. If Tom Izzo's whiteboard work is so amazing, why isn't he more successful than Bo Ryan in the Big Ten? By all accounts he has better players to work with. Is preparation not part of coaching?
 

justthefacts said:
Examine MSU's recruiting rankings over Bo Ryan's tenure to those of Wisconsin. Now examine their Big Ten and head to head records. If Tom Izzo's whiteboard work is so amazing, why isn't he more successful than Bo Ryan in the Big Ten? By all accounts he has better players to work with. Is preparation not part of coaching?
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Hahaha!!! Laughably hilarious. Why are you focusing only on their results within the Big Ten? Compare their resumes in the NCAA Tournament and then get back to me with the Bo Ryan dong-slobber fest.
 

dpodoll68 said:
Hahaha!!! Laughably hilarious. Why are you focusing only on their results within the Big Ten? Compare their resumes in the NCAA Tournament and then get back to me with the Bo Ryan dong-slobber fest.
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I'm at least glad I wasn't unlaughably hilarious. That would just have been weird.

Tom Izzo has 21 NCAA wins since Bo Ryan took over. Ryan has 16. So, on average, Izzo has made it one game further every two years. Certainly better, but not night and day.

In that time Bo Ryan has 132 Big Ten wins and Tom Izzo has 121.

In that time Bo Ryan has had 9 RSCI Top 100 recruits and Izzo has had 22.

I guess all I'm saying is that you'd think with that recruiting advantage, and Izzo's fantastic whiteboarding abilities, the difference in results should be more marked.

EDIT: To be clear, I'm not saying Bo Ryan is a better coach than Tom Izzo. Just saying that disparaging the ranking of Bo Ryan at 10 while at the same time accepting Izzo at 1 is inconsistent.
 

justthefacts said:
I guess all I'm saying is that you'd think with that recruiting advantage, and Izzo's fantastic whiteboarding abilities, the difference in results should be more marked.
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But the difference in results is drastic. You are selectively citing statistics that make it appear as though Bo Ryan is in Tom Izzo's class as a coach. Big Ten wins are cute and all, but deep Tournament runs are where legends are made. Izzo has 6 Final Four appearances and a national championship (3 and 0 since Ryan started at Becky), while Ryan has 0 and 0 all-time.

P.S. What "recruiting advantage" exists at Michigan St. that Izzo hasn't created himself? After early successes built on the back of one of the greatest players in basketball history, his predecessor went to two Sweet Sixteens, won one Big Ten title, and was a sub-.500 Big Ten coach over his last 16 seasons. Ryan's predecessor handed him a squad that went to the Final Four in his last full season. So who had the "recruiting advantage"? I agree that Michigan St. has a recruiting advantage over Wisconsin, but that is almost entirely Izzo's doing, meaning he gets the credit. I'm pretty sure elite players aren't going to Michigan St. because Magic Johnson won them a national title during the Carter administration.
 

dpodoll68 said:
But the difference in results is drastic. You are selectively citing statistics that make it appear as though Bo Ryan is in Tom Izzo's class as a coach. Big Ten wins are cute and all, but deep Tournament runs are where legends are made. Izzo has 6 Final Four appearances and a national championship (3 and 0 since Ryan started at Becky), while Ryan has 0 and 0 all-time.

P.S. What "recruiting advantage" exists at Michigan St. that Izzo hasn't created himself? After early successes built on the back of one of the greatest players in basketball history, his predecessor went to two Sweet Sixteens, won one Big Ten title, and was a sub-.500 Big Ten coach over his last 16 seasons. Ryan's predecessor handed him a squad that went to the Final Four in his last full season. So who had the "recruiting advantage"? I agree that Michigan St. has a recruiting advantage over Wisconsin, but that is almost entirely Izzo's doing, meaning he gets the credit. I'm pretty sure elite players aren't going to Michigan St. because Magic Johnson won them a national title during the Carter administration.
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You're acting like the statistics I'm quoting are somehow obscure and irrelevant. Big Ten wins and tournament wins are neither. Yes, the Final Four total favors Izzo, but why is that objectively more important? "Where legends are made?" That's not a real argument.

As for recruiting, the advantage is geography. RSCI didn't exist in the late 90s when the Flintstones were recruited, but those guys all came from Michigan, got Izzo his title and helped him recruit from there. Of the 22 RSCI top 100 guys that Izzo recruited since Ryan took over, 13 of them are from Michigan. Of the 9 that Bo got, 4 were from WI.

Yes, Bennett got Wisconsin to the Final 4, but those were the first tournament wins in Wisconsin's previous 55 years. Hell, a key narrative on this board is how short Wisconsin's basketball tradition is. Jud Heathcote had 15 tournament wins. Prior to Bo Ryan's arrival Wisconsin had 8 in its history.

Again, Izzo is a hell of a coach, but to pretend that Bo Ryan isn't is to let hatred cloud your vision.
 

justthefacts said:
Again, Izzo is a hell of a coach, but to pretend that Bo Ryan isn't is to let hatred cloud your vision.
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I never said he wasn't. Ryan is a very good coach. But he's not even remotely on Izzo's plane of existence. Izzo is one of the greatest coaches in the history of college basketball. Ryan will be forgotten by everyone but Badgers fans within a few years of his retirement.
 

SelectionSunday said:
Have to strongly diagree with that.

Certainly Bo is annoying, especially to most Gopher fans, but if anything I'd say Myron has The Grinch underrated at #10. Not that the Badgers have been devoid of talent during his tenure, but I'd say pretty da*n near every season Bo gets the most out of his teams (and then some). And it's not like he's been devoid of postseason success. There's been a couple BTT championships (2004, 2008), some Sweet 16s (2003, 2008, 2011, 2012), and an Elite 8 (2005) to go along with three B1G regular-season titles (2002, 2003, 2008).
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If Bo is underrated at #10, who is he better than? Look at the achievements of the other coaches and tell me how Bo is superior to them comparing accomplishments to accomplishments. Don't give me the "he does more with less" argument because that is total BS unless he actually has accomplished more. Every coach rated ahead of him by Myron has multiple Final Fours (Bo has ZERO), and all of them have made the F4 at least once (almost all of them multiple times) since Ryan has been at UW.

Bo Ryan has the most consistent program in all of college basketball. He gets players who have the talent/potential to be solid Big Ten players who will stick around 4 years, and has built an incredibly consistent team. With Bo Ryan you aren't going to get the low of not making the tournament, but you aren't going to get the high of the Final Four, either. If you value consistency, you like Ryan, but that consistency tends to mask the lack of the "highs" that you get with the other elite coaches. You can be consistently good without future NBA players, even more consistent than your peers who lose early entries to the pros and have occasional rebuilding years as a result, but you won't be making many Final Fours without them, and Ryan hasn't disproved that general rule.
 

OSUfan said:
If Bo is underrated at #10, who is he better than? Look at the achievements of the other coaches and tell me how Bo is superior to them comparing accomplishments to accomplishments. Don't give me the "he does more with less" argument because that is total BS unless he actually has accomplished more. Every coach rated ahead of him by Myron has multiple Final Fours (Bo has ZERO), and all of them have made the F4 at least once (almost all of them multiple times) since Ryan has been at UW.

Bo Ryan has the most consistent program in all of college basketball. He gets players who have the talent/potential to be solid Big Ten players who will stick around 4 years, and has built an incredibly consistent team. With Bo Ryan you aren't going to get the low of not making the tournament, but you aren't going to get the high of the Final Four, either. If you value consistency, you like Ryan, but that consistency tends to mask the lack of the "highs" that you get with the other elite coaches. You can be consistently good without future NBA players, even more consistent than your peers who lose early entries to the pros and have occasional rebuilding years as a result, but you won't be making many Final Fours without them, and Ryan hasn't disproved that general rule.
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Sorry, but this analysis is just wrong in the eyes of this Badger fan. Bucky in '05 played UNC in a very tight Elite Eight game. A possession or two turns out differently and they knock off the eventual champs. MSU and Izzo played that team in the very next game and were blown off the floor. Does the fact Izzo got to the FF make that year's MSU accomplishment better than UW's? I don't discount Tom Izzo's abilities at all, he is a great coach. On the whole, however, given the natural recruiting advantages of the state of Michigan, what Bo has been able to do in matching up with Izzo head-to-head and within the conference in relation to Izzo makes them very nearly equals.

Tell me too how many future pros were on the George Mason, VCU, Butler, or Wisconsin '00 teams. There are a couple there, but none were regarded as 1-and-done coming into their schools from HS. You can certainly get to the FF with very good players that are never going to be highly successful in the pros. You can even win it all (see Maryland '02). Ryan has yet to do so, but his teams have been very close and have beaten several of the teams that have went to the Nat'l champ game that year (OSU '07, Duke '10).

I know some people don't care for the style of play, but that is also a joke to me as well. The only thing different about the way they play is that they rarely run and always get back on D. This may eliminate the spectacular plays that fans salivate over and are shown on ESPN top play of the day, but they aren't what wins games. Consistent efficient offense and downright stingy defense will generally prevail over highlight reel ally-oops. There is nothing special about what the Badgers do on D either, they simply try to force you to take contested looks from outside. If you can do so (see Davidson, Cornell, or this year's Syracuse NCAA games), it will be difficult for the Badger's to beat you. When you can't do that however, the Badger's methodical efficiency will put up enough points to beat you.

Thanks for your time reading my rant, just irritates me when people mischaracterize the sports program that I enjoy the most.
 

obobo55 said:
Bucky in '05 played UNC in a very tight Elite Eight game. A possession or two turns out differently and they knock off the eventual champs....
You can certainly get to the FF with very good players that are never going to be highly successful in the pros. You can even win it all (see Maryland '02). Ryan has yet to do so, but his teams have been very close
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Yay uw-madison! You get close to winning games! Any "Almost Made the Final Four" banners hanging up in the kohl center?
 

What a surprise that a Marquette Gold fan is the first to reply...

The tourney is a tough nut to crack. You need not only to have a good team, but you need a bit of luck and your draw can knock you out earlier than you might have been if placed into a different region. My only point in that post was that that year MSU and Izzo get credit for reaching a FF, while the Badgers were sent home one game earlier. Both did not accomplish the ultimate goal, so how does losing in the FF while getting blown away rate as better than losing a game within a possession under a minute to go in the EE?

Personally, I am of the belief that the tournament is WAY overvalued in terms of how people view a coaches accomplishments. Particularly FF's since getting there is greatly dependent on things that are happening outside of your control. For the 1 and 2-seeds, they should almost always advance to the 2nd weekend without much difficulty. They are given help in regards to travel and location and the level of competition for those first two games should be manageable. From the 3 on down, it is largely a crapshoot after the first game. Did the top seed in your region get knocked off early? Does one of those teams suffer an injury that severely impacts the level of competition? While a FF is a great accomplishment, it sometimes is due to some fortuitous circumstances rather than some incredible coaching acumen and that is what some people convey upon it.
 

obobo55 said:
Sorry, but this analysis is just wrong in the eyes of this Badger fan. Bucky in '05 played UNC in a very tight Elite Eight game. A possession or two turns out differently and they knock off the eventual champs. MSU and Izzo played that team in the very next game and were blown off the floor. Does the fact Izzo got to the FF make that year's MSU accomplishment better than UW's?
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Yes.
 

obobo55 said:
Personally, I am of the belief that the tournament is WAY overvalued in terms of how people view a coaches accomplishments.
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That's what I'd expect to hear from someone who's favorite coach has been to zero Final Fours (Ryan), while the other coach he's comparing him to (Izzo) has been to six.

You also conveniently neglect to mention that two of Izzo's Final Four trips (2005, 2010) came as a #5 seed.

Also, you do realize that Michigan State made it to the Final Four in 2010, after Kalin Lucas tore his achilles heel in the 1st round vs. New Mexico State, don't you?

As GW so eloquently pointed out, if you want to hang up a banner for "an almost Final Four", knock yourself out.
 

The-Real-Truth said:
SS, wasn’t an ESPN writer last year who said that his biggest fear was the transformation of collage basketball to Bo Ryan’s style? Again because he has been winning doesn’t mean that he is a good coach. He has been playing anti-basketball style of basketball. I am not sure how he could be ranked as # 10 or higher when he only destroys the game? I was told that B1G used to be fun until he joined this conference. Like I said before, it is almost impossible to win on the road when you play the top dogs in B1G only because of the refs. We had two games last year or a year before that OSU, IL, and MSU players had basket interference. I remember one of the assistant coaches went to the ref in every one of those occasions and got nowhere. You tell me if they would do that against Bo and others.

As little credit Tubby gets these days, we should not forget that Gophers are relaxed when they play in neutral environment. We have beaten UL, UNC, WVU, Purdue, and MSU during post season. Our players have been mentally strong when they have played 5 on 5 not 5 on 8.

Go Gophers
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Uhhhhh, yes it does. Just becuase he wins with "anti-basketball" style of play doesn't mean it's bad. Bo does what's effective and that's what good coaches do.
 

Former Goofer said:
Uhhhhh, yes it does. Just becuase he wins with "anti-basketball" style of play doesn't mean it's bad. Bo does what's effective and that's what good coaches do.
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I have one question for you, former Gopher's coach was winning at Gonzaga. Now, he is winning at a Univeristy in California. He couldn't win to save his life here in Minnesota. Was he a bad coach?


Go Gophers
 

The-Real-Truth said:
I have one question for you, former Gopher's coach was winning at Gonzaga. Now, he is winning at long beach state university. He couldn't win to save his life here in Minnesota. Was he a bad coach?

Go Gophers
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FIFY
 

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