Myron: Richard Pitino wants what John Belein has

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Gophers7NatTitlesBadgers0 said:
Michigan played 9 deep before McGary got hurt so they essentially have 4 off the bench making significant contributions. I would absolutely take Horford, Morgan and Irvin over EE, Oto, an Au. Hollins anytime
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Feel free to buy a scUM hat and then you can have them forever and ever.
 



tjgopher said:
I think you're way, way overstating Michigan's depth. What three Michigan bench players would start for Minnesota? The Wolverines basically have three bench players. Albrecht, Irvin, and Horford. Maybe one of those guys would start for Minnesota right now. Maybe one. Certainly not all three or even two.



Frankly, I think Michigan's weakness will be a lack of depth this season. They don't have a great bench. As mentioned, basically two average Big Ten players and a promising freshman and that is it. In fact, Beilein commented about how thin his team is.
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don't forget about Caris Levert
 

Gophers7NatTitlesBadgers0 said:
One reason I feel it is relevant is because Michigan's program had some of the same issues 15 years ago or so and started losing area recruits to Izzo. They couldn't get things turned around until they made a commitment to the facilities needed to land these recruits again. This is the main emphasis of the article. Facilities show recruits that the program is committed to winning. In fact, you are starting to see Michigan winning the recruiting battles with Sparty again. State is top heavy but Michigan has better depth. This is why I can't to worked up about the past scandals.
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Thank you, someone who has some sense instead of getting defensive anyone someone has something negative to say about the program that happens to be spot-on. I'm just as big a Gophers fan as the rest of you, but sometimes you have to put pride aside to find the message these journalists intend to put forth.
 


I think a lot of the issue with Myron also comes from his tweets during the game. He is absolutely pathetic during games. Pat is a beaming ray of sunshine compared to Myron.
 

SoMpls said:
Myron is not a MN guy.
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gall0249 said:
Isn't Myron from Milwaukee? I don't think that's in Minnesota.
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No kidding. Myron couldn't be further from a "MN guy".

I didn't read the article and couldn't care less if he's taking shots or not. He's the worst fn writer that ever covered Minnesota sports. Absolutely pathetic and his Wisconsin shows way, way too often.

Always loved the Myron "P" Medcalf tho. Like there's too many Myron Medcalfs around that you gotta put that middle initial in there to clear up any confusion. What a hapless pathetic individual.
 

MadtownGopher said:
I'm sorry but if Pitino had brought in a long 5-star wing like Irvin, he would be starting. He'd be a perfect fit in Pitino's system. Even if it meant bringing little Dre off the bench, Irvin would start.
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Irvin might start but no way would little Dre be coming off the bench. The only way little dre comes off the bench on this team is if you find a better pure pg.
 

SuperSenior13 said:
Thank you, someone who has some sense instead of getting defensive anyone someone has something negative to say about the program that happens to be spot-on. I'm just as big a Gophers fan as the rest of you, but sometimes you have to put pride aside to find the message these journalists intend to put forth.
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So anyone that disagrees is defensive?

Do you really believe the quotes are the reason we are not a top tier team in the Big Ten?

"It’s also a team with a past that is scarred by scandal. The academic mess in the 1990s that erased a Final Four appearance and a Big Ten title from the record books. A rape investigation in the 1980s. Dozens of NCAA violations in the 1970s."


Do the 70's and 80's problems really cost us wins and recruits at this time? Hell the 97 Final Four which didn't happen is 17 years ago....the majority of current recruits weren't even born yet. Those are not the reasons we are not winning.

It's not being defensive, it's called common sense.
 



station19 said:
So anyone that disagrees is defensive?

Do you really believe the quotes are the reason we are not a top tier team in the Big Ten?

"It’s also a team with a past that is scarred by scandal. The academic mess in the 1990s that erased a Final Four appearance and a Big Ten title from the record books. A rape investigation in the 1980s. Dozens of NCAA violations in the 1970s."


Do the 70's and 80's problems really cost us wins and recruits at this time? Hell the 97 Final Four which didn't happen is 17 years ago....the majority of current recruits weren't even born yet. Those are not the reasons we are not winning.

It's not being defensive, it's called common sense.
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I don't completely disagree, but the article is comparing the programs at similar times in their history, which makes the reference to infractions and violations relevant in this case. Yes I wish he would have made the comparisons to Michigan's troubles, but it is what it is. I for one embrace Myron's critical views.

And do those infractions cost us wins and recruits in the present? Can't prove it either way. But the derailing of the program's momentum due to said infractions definitely didn't help its development in terms of facilities, fundraising, and national exposure/reputation. Which impacts recruiting. I'm not trying to offend anyone or all that, just merely stating my opinion on the article and the ensuing reaction.
 

scher215 said:
I think a lot of the issue with Myron also comes from his tweets during the game. He is absolutely pathetic during games. Pat is a beaming ray of sunshine compared to Myron.
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My god, why would you follow him on twitter?
 

SuperSenior13 said:
I don't completely disagree, but the article is comparing the programs at similar times in their history, which makes the reference to infractions and violations relevant in this case. Yes I wish he would have made the comparisons to Michigan's troubles, but it is what it is. I for one embrace Myron's critical views.

And do those infractions cost us wins and recruits in the present? Can't prove it either way. But the derailing of the program's momentum due to said infractions definitely didn't help its development in terms of facilities, fundraising, and national exposure/reputation. Which impacts recruiting. I'm not trying to offend anyone or all that, just merely stating my opinion on the article and the ensuing reaction.
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You were doing more than that. You were labeling people that disagreed with you as defensive.
 

station19 said:
You were doing more than that. You were labeling people that disagreed with you as defensive.
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Read the initial reaction on this thread. Extremely defensive. And you're merely proving my point at this juncture.
 




Gophers7NatTitlesBadgers0 said:
Michigan played 9 deep before McGary got hurt so they essentially have 4 off the bench making significant contributions. I would absolutely take Horford, Morgan and Irvin over EE, Oto, an Au. Hollins anytime
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How much Michigan do you watch? Morgan and Horford are not that good. Combined they average what Elliot does. Irvin will be good some day.
 

tjgopher said:
How much Michigan do you watch? Morgan and Horford are not that good. Combined they average what Elliot does. Irvin will be good some day.
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So you don't think if Horford and Morgan played the same minutes per game as Eliason their numbers wouldn't be closer to EE's. I actually did projections and Horford comes out 2 pts/gm better than EE and Morgan almost a pt/gm better and no real difference in reb/gm between Horford and EE. The only slight advantage with EE is in blks/gm.

The stats that I find glaring relate to efficiency in the opportunities to score points. And with the exception of Austin's percentage on FT conversions, the three Michigan players do a better job at converting scoring opportunities. It's pathetic for our frontline players to not convert at least 50% on FG attempts.

It's true that I haven't watched a lot of Michigan, but it seems like they take better shots that look confident leaving their hands while all to often, similar shots by our guys are erratic and sloppy looking even on an open look. Its frustrating watching one of these lame ducks be converted on the other end and often they make it look too easy.

Irvin is a better athlete than Austin and has a much smoother stroke. I have no doubt that this time next year people will be talking about where in the NBA lottery this kid is going.

Bottom line is I don't feel their guys hurt Michigan, but there are times when EE, Austin, and Oto hurt the Gophers
 

Gophers7NatTitlesBadgers0 said:
So you don't think if Horford and Morgan played the same minutes per game Eliason their numbers wouldn't be closer to EE's. I actually did projections and Horford comes out 2 pts/gm better than EE and Morgan almost a pt/gm better and no real difference in reb/gm between Horford and EE. The only slight advantage with EE is in blks/gm.

The stats that I find glaring relate to efficiency in the opportunities to score points. And with the exception of Austin's percentage on FT conversions, the three Michigan players do a better job at converting scoring opportunities. It's pathetic for our frontline players to not convert at least 50% on FG attempts.

It's true that I haven't watched a lot of Michigan, but it seems like they take better shots that look confident leaving their hands while all to often, similar shots by our guys are erratic and sloppy looking even on an open look. Its frustrating watching one of these lame ducks be converted on the other end and often they make it look too easy.

Irvin is a better athlete than Austin and has a much smoother stroke. I have no doubt that this time next year people will be talking about where in the NBA lottery this kid is going.

Bottom line is I don't feel their guys hurt Michigan, but there are times when EE, Austin, and Oto hurt the Gophers
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Austin had a bad daay every player in the country does that, I can see where you're coming from with Oto, but if anything Austin and EE make the team better and we wouldn't survive losing either one this year
 

bemidjigopher said:
Austin had a bad daay every player in the country does that, I can see where you're coming from with Oto, but if anything Austin and EE make the team better and we wouldn't survive losing either one this year
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Austin is 31% from 3pt range for the season. He misses shots that Zak Irvin drains more often than not. BTW I'm not saying we shouldn't have EE or Austin on the team, but there quite a few programs where they would be 7-9 coming off the bench and Oto would be a scout player.
 

Gophers7NatTitlesBadgers0 said:
Austin is 31% from 3pt range for the season. He misses shots that Zak Irvin drains more often than not. BTW I'm not saying we shouldn't have EE or Austin on the team, but there quite a few programs where they would be 7-9 coming off the bench and Oto would be a scout player.
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Austin is not a good three point shooter. But people seem to think he is good. He's bad at them.

He's a good player, just not a good shooter.
 

The problem I've always had with Myron is that when it comes to the Gophers, he tends to emphasize the negative. To the extent that the point of his latest article is that we have to invest more in our program, including most particularly facilities, I agree. But to the extent that he is saying that Pitino will be unable to recruit 4 and 5 star recruits without a facilities upgrade and that such an upgrade is unlikely, I disagree. Tubby initially was able to recruit 4 and 5 star recruits, and I think Pitino can as well. Moreover, it's not necessarily the number of stars awarded a player by the recruiting services, but how well he fits Pitino's style of play. Clem Haskin always said, he would rather have a kid who would stick around for four years and develop into a solid player, than a kid who would be one and done. Duke for years has been able to get top recruits while playing in Cameron Indoor Stadium, and I'll take Williams Arena any day in comparison. I think it gives us a great home court advantage. At the same time, I am fairly optimistic, that we will be able to upgrade our facilities in the foreseeable future. Ignored by Myron is the relatively recent changes in the U's Administration. Minnesota has suffered for years by an Administration that has been relatively uncommitted to Minnesota basketball and football. I believe that with the addition of Eric Kaler and Norwood Teague that has changed.
 

vagopher said:
The problem I've always had with Myron is that when it comes to the Gophers, he tends to emphasize the negative. To the extent that the point of his latest article is that we have to invest more in our program, including most particularly facilities, I agree. But to the extent that he is saying that Pitino will be unable to recruit 4 and 5 star recruits without a facilities upgrade and that such an upgrade is unlikely, I disagree. Tubby initially was able to recruit 4 and 5 star recruits, and I think Pitino can as well. Moreover, it's not necessarily the number of stars awarded a player by the recruiting services, but how well he fits Pitino's style of play. Clem Haskin always said, he would rather have a kid who would stick around for four years and develop into a solid player, than a kid who would be one and done. Duke for years has been able to get top recruits while playing in Cameron Indoor Stadium, and I'll take Williams Arena any day in comparison. I think it gives us a great home court advantage. At the same time, I am fairly optimistic, that we will be able to upgrade our facilities in the foreseeable future. Ignored by Myron is the relatively recent changes in the U's Administration. Minnesota has suffered for years by an Administration that has been relatively uncommitted to Minnesota basketball and football. I believe that with the addition of Eric Kaler and Norwood Teague that has changed.
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Well said
 

vagopher said:
The problem I've always had with Myron is that when it comes to the Gophers, he tends to emphasize the negative. To the extent that the point of his latest article is that we have to invest more in our program, including most particularly facilities, I agree. But to the extent that he is saying that Pitino will be unable to recruit 4 and 5 star recruits without a facilities upgrade and that such an upgrade is unlikely, I disagree. Tubby initially was able to recruit 4 and 5 star recruits, and I think Pitino can as well. Moreover, it's not necessarily the number of stars awarded a player by the recruiting services, but how well he fits Pitino's style of play. Clem Haskin always said, he would rather have a kid who would stick around for four years and develop into a solid player, than a kid who would be one and done. Duke for years has been able to get top recruits while playing in Cameron Indoor Stadium, and I'll take Williams Arena any day in comparison. I think it gives us a great home court advantage. At the same time, I am fairly optimistic, that we will be able to upgrade our facilities in the foreseeable future. Ignored by Myron is the relatively recent changes in the U's Administration. Minnesota has suffered for years by an Administration that has been relatively uncommitted to Minnesota basketball and football. I believe that with the addition of Eric Kaler and Norwood Teague that has changed.
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Could that have been because Clem wasn't able to recruit any of those one and done's???
 



I would say in this day and age Pryz would've been one and done, he was a couple years after KG and Kobe, but right before the classes 02-05 were guys were skipping college left and right that lead to the one and done rule. One and done just wasn't that common then.
 

bemidjigopher said:
I would say in this day and age Pryz would've been one and done, he was a couple years after KG and Kobe, but right before the classes 02-05 were guys were skipping college left and right that lead to the one and done rule. One and done just wasn't that common then.
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Good point.
 

SuperSenior13 said:
To everyone bashing Myron for bringing up the history of scandals and saying it isn't relevant... It is. Because many of those infractions set our program back and regressed it to what it is today. Which is central to the article. To understand where you're going, you have to know where you've been.

And I honestly don't think there were any low-blows aimed our way in this article. I just think people get butt-hurt any time someone says something unfavorable about their program, be it factual or not. Myron hit the nail on the head in this article.
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The one thing that bothers me about that reference would be from the standpoint of "what's good for the Goose is good for the Gander." If you're going to say Minnesota doesn't have any B1G titles since '82, don't gloss over the sanctions that Michigan had when you note their accomplishments. Don't say Michigan last appeared in the tourney when they vacated their appearance (1998) and don't cite the "success" of the Fab Five while ignoring the Fab Five caused additional tournament appearances and seasons to be vacated. In fact, his column would have been better had he also mentioned the Michigan sanctions and brought the comparisons full circle, but apparently he did not do that and so his comments about the negatives in Minnesota's past seem unnecessary (I had never before heard of the 1980s rape investigation, but surely it has no negative impact on the program now - references like that make me think perhaps he is just trying to show off the breadth of his knowledge about Minnesota).
 

OSUfan said:
The one thing that bothers me about that reference would be from the standpoint of "what's good for the Goose is good for the Gander." If you're going to say Minnesota doesn't have any B1G titles since '82, don't gloss over the sanctions that Michigan had when you note their accomplishments. Don't say Michigan last appeared in the tourney when they vacated their appearance (1998) and don't cite the "success" of the Fab Five while ignoring the Fab Five caused additional tournament appearances and seasons to be vacated. In fact, his column would have been better had he also mentioned the Michigan sanctions and brought the comparisons full circle, but apparently he did not do that and so his comments about the negatives in Minnesota's past seem unnecessary (I had never before heard of the 1980s rape investigation, but surely it has no negative impact on the program now - references like that make me think perhaps he is just trying to show off the breadth of his knowledge about Minnesota).
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Yea I went on in later posts to say I wish he would have acknowledged Michigan's own scandalous history, but in all I still think the article was fairly accurate, albeit critical/cynical at points.
 

Irvin had 15 pts in his first BIG game. Austin has eclipsed that mark in 8 out of 55 games in his BIG career. He has never been a prolific scorer, the only thing abnormal about his game against Michigan was poor decision making and lapses on D.

As for the EE vs. Morgan and Horford debate, the fact that folks are debating whether our starting center is better or worse than Michigan's second or third option is telling. If people want to compare stats of EE vs. Horford, do it on a per minutes played basis.

I would rather have EE than Horford or Morgan, but not McGary.
 

i actually i don't think it is crazy to take EE over even McGarry. i think it could be argued that he is better then any post player we have played this year like Ojo, Christmas, Grant and Coleman, he is just as good if not a better rebounder then all of them and a superior defender then all of them, and for Austin give the guy a break, he played the worst game he has played since maybe his sophomore season, i mean he has scored double digits in all but 2 games
 

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