Myron blog: The aftermath of an ugly Gophers loss (Part 1)

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What a reach of a take by Myron here. There is plenty of blame for Tubby in this debacle, but taking out two starters after 5+ minutes of play - then seeing the bench EXPAND the lead - is not even in the top 50.

Is Myron serious with this?

The Bad

-The Gophers opened up the game with a lot of energy and momentum. Trevor Mbakwe got the crowd going with a pair of monster slams. He scored six straight points.

Blake Hoffarber hit a couple of threes in the opening minutes. We're rolling, baby!

Not so fast. Tubby Smith put both players on the bench (Mbakwe at 14:51, Hoffarber at 14:21).

Yes, the next group turned a 14-5 lead into a 22-9 edge before the starters returned. But the way the starters were playing, especially Mbakwe and Hoffarber, the Gophers had a chance to open up the game even more.

Maybe 22-9 would have been 30-9 and negated Virginia's Mustapha "I'm Kobe at the Barn" Farrakhan, who scored 14 points in the final 10 minutes of the first half and kept his squad alive.
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...shoot and shoot and shoot without regard for shot selection.

The Gophers played that kind of basketball down the stretch. Quick shots. Bad shots. Prayers. "What was that?" shots.

Is Myron actually dissing his hero DevoeJoe?

& some good comment on this post-

To whoever is writing this column....FINALLY a sports writer for the Trib that has a true sense and feel for the sport he is writing about...this is right on baby!!!

posted by marcom on Nov 30, 10 at 12:00 pm |

Joseph's play in the 2nd half was hard to watch. dribble, dribble, dribble - force shot/turnover. why do our guards struggle to feed the post? RS III & DJ have to play better than that for us to win the meaningful games. I thought Tubby stuck with DJ too long in the 2nd half.

posted by jayozmun on Nov 30, 10 at 12:22 pm |
Tubby coached like he did not care if they lost. Way too much time for Frosh and "Black Hole" Joseph. I know he wants too see what Frosh can do but this was Big Ten ACC Challenge . Way too important in terms of power ratings to let this happen.

posted by rmcthree on Nov 30, 10 at 12:53 pm
 

Same thing he said on KFAN this morning.

I must say I don't agree with taking a dominating performer out after 5 minutes.

It's only 5 minutes.
 

On the radio, Myron also said that Tubby's reason for doing this in the past is that he didn't have a dominating performer that justified staying in.

But now, we've *potentially* got a Big-10 POY candidate in Trevor.

(sorry for the double post)
 


Is it just me or does it seem to mess with Sampson's head when he sits early without having contributed much? Then he seems wasted for the rest of the game. Maybe they ought to run the offense thru the big kid early until he gets established.
 

Gopher4Life said:
Is it just me or does it seem to mess with Sampson's head when he sits early without having contributed much? Then he seems wasted for the rest of the game. Maybe they ought to run the offense thru the big kid early until he gets established.
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Yes!
We have one of the biggest teams in the country, we need to use it to our advantage. We were dominating points in the paint. The team was a mess in the second half. Instead of rushing for jumpers, establish the big men down low. When the other teams start to double the post, look for the kick out 3's. Its as if they felt like we were down 40. I think DJ just felt like he had something to prove his first game back. Atleast thats what we should all hope. He needs to look to attack and get shots within the offense. Use the big men to your advantage!

I know people are looking ahead to next year and stuff but this game should be a huge wake up call. You cannot underestimate what Nolen and Hoffarber bring to this team. They have so many intangibles.
 

Agreed. That was absolutely absurd. I'm sure at the time Coach Myron didn't think the sub was questionable.

Facts34 said:
What a reach of a take by Myron here. There is plenty of blame for Tubby in this debacle, but taking out two starters after 5+ minutes of play - then seeing the bench EXPAND the lead - is not even in the top 50.

Is Myron serious with this?
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I've noticed that too. With how poorly Sampson has played against Virginia both times, I would guess it's largely psychological. Sampson was playing so poorly and was in foul trouble so I'm not it's a good idea to just leave him in. His game varies so much depending on his aggression and confidence. I feel like if he's playing poorly, he'll continue to play poorly regardless of whether he plays heavy minutes. Maybe he would benefit from seeing a sports psychologist.

Gopher4Life said:
Is it just me or does it seem to mess with Sampson's head when he sits early without having contributed much? Then he seems wasted for the rest of the game. Maybe they ought to run the offense thru the big kid early until he gets established.
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Tubby has pretty consistently taken out his first string early after about 5-6 minutes of game time this year. My guess is that he feels like he needs to get the 2nd line in to the game fairly early so that they can get a feel for being out there (not a bad strategy IMHO, it's tough to contribute much if you don't get in hte game until 1/4 of it or more is over).

I wouldn't mind Tubby riding the hot players a little more, but this game had all the makings of a blowout and it certainly didn't seem like a need to keep Trevor or Blake in at the time. The team lost entirely due to their own lack of effort defensively.
 

underground629 said:
Agreed. That was absolutely absurd. I'm sure at the time Coach Myron didn't think the sub was questionable.
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I personally questioned it. You don't remove your two most-effective players at the same time after only 5 minutes. Bad move, which cannot be done in big (e.g., BT/ACC Chall.) games.
 

Well, the subs went on an 8-4 run after that. Obviously nobody thought/thinks Virginia is a very good team, so getting the subs in early wasn't a bad idea. You can't just leave the subs on the bench to stiffen up and not get used to the flow of the game. Out of all the things that Myron could've questioned, that doesn't really make sense. We were fine in the first half, and there's no indication that that was a bad substitution.

cncmin said:
I personally questioned it. You don't remove your two most-effective players at the same time after only 5 minutes. Bad move, which cannot be done in big (e.g., BT/ACC Chall.) games.
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Back when Tom Davis used to coach Iowa, he had the 2 5-man squads he'd go with pretty consistently.

Jankowski always used to use the phrase "wholesale substitution by Iowa" when he's do it. Haven't heard him use that since Tubby came on board...
 



underground629 said:
Well, the subs went on an 8-4 run after that. Obviously nobody thought/thinks Virginia is a very good team, so getting the subs in early wasn't a bad idea. You can't just leave the subs on the bench to stiffen up and not get used to the flow of the game. Out of all the things that Myron could've questioned, that doesn't really make sense. We were fine in the first half, and there's no indication that that was a bad substitution.
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Also, at the end the subs came in with some energy and at least gave us a chance, slim as it was.

Frustrating as it is, Tubby has pretty good reasons for doing the things that he does. I think he sticks to his methods because he takes a long range view. If you could ask him, he might give you all sorts of reasons for his substituting: experimenting with combinations, giving freshmen meaningful minutes, fostering competition, strengthening depth, not wearing players down, establishing roles, etc. Some of these or other reasons might be more important to him at this time of the year than any one particular game.

It seems like last year when we started playing well, there were comments on how he had shortened the bench. Don't know but that again could be the case this year. It'll be interesting to see as the year goes along.

I wonder if he got criticized for his substitution patterns at Kentucky, especially at the end? I also wonder if he has always been a coach to substitute often and freely even when he was winning big? If only there was somebody who posts who has an intimate knowledge of Tubby's past and was willing to share.
 

Mulligan said:
...I wonder if he got criticized for his substitution patterns at Kentucky, especially at the end? I also wonder if he has always been a coach to substitute often and freely even when he was winning big? If only there was somebody who posts who has an intimate knowledge of Tubby's past and was willing to share.
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Hmmmmm? There must be somebody?
 

brucekaupa said:
Same thing he said on KFAN this morning.

I must say I don't agree with taking a dominating performer out after 5 minutes.

It's only 5 minutes.
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These are D1 athletes, just about everyone should be conditioned well enough to play the entire game...aside from the bigger boys like Mo ;). Who knows what would have happend if he didn't make these substitutions, but Tubby's subbing patterns have always driven me nuts. Guys can be absolutely clicking and hot, and he'll take them out.

Gopher4Life said:
Is it just me or does it seem to mess with Sampson's head when he sits early without having contributed much? Then he seems wasted for the rest of the game. Maybe they ought to run the offense thru the big kid early until he gets established.
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I don't feel it has anything to do with him sitting early, but his Dad sitting in the stands. I feel like that always messes with his head - most of the time, when Ralph has a bad game, pops is watching.
 

Agreed. Tubby knows the team the best. With the defensive effort he demands (with the exception of the game vs. Virginia), he can't just leave players in the entire game. And he does shorten the bench when we need to, as you pointed out. As Gopherlady pointed out though, it can be frustrating when we play a good opponent and we have a player on fire and Tubby subs him.

Mulligan said:
Also, at the end the subs came in with some energy and at least gave us a chance, slim as it was.

Frustrating as it is, Tubby has pretty good reasons for doing the things that he does. I think he sticks to his methods because he takes a long range view. If you could ask him, he might give you all sorts of reasons for his substituting: experimenting with combinations, giving freshmen meaningful minutes, fostering competition, strengthening depth, not wearing players down, establishing roles, etc. Some of these or other reasons might be more important to him at this time of the year than any one particular game.

It seems like last year when we started playing well, there were comments on how he had shortened the bench. Don't know but that again could be the case this year. It'll be interesting to see as the year goes along.

I wonder if he got criticized for his substitution patterns at Kentucky, especially at the end? I also wonder if he has always been a coach to substitute often and freely even when he was winning big? If only there was somebody who posts who has an intimate knowledge of Tubby's past and was willing to share.
Click to expand...
 

98VQueens said:
...shoot and shoot and shoot without regard for shot selection.

The Gophers played that kind of basketball down the stretch. Quick shots. Bad shots. Prayers. "What was that?" shots.

Is Myron actually dissing his hero DevoeJoe?

& some good comment on this post-

To whoever is writing this column....FINALLY a sports writer for the Trib that has a true sense and feel for the sport he is writing about...this is right on baby!!!

posted by marcom on Nov 30, 10 at 12:00 pm |

Joseph's play in the 2nd half was hard to watch. dribble, dribble, dribble - force shot/turnover. why do our guards struggle to feed the post? RS III & DJ have to play better than that for us to win the meaningful games. I thought Tubby stuck with DJ too long in the 2nd half.

posted by jayozmun on Nov 30, 10 at 12:22 pm |
Tubby coached like he did not care if they lost. Way too much time for Frosh and "Black Hole" Joseph. I know he wants too see what Frosh can do but this was Big Ten ACC Challenge . Way too important in terms of power ratings to let this happen.

posted by rmcthree on Nov 30, 10 at 12:53 pm
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I agree with the last comment. I think Tubby sensed a team reading its press clipping and rankings. Coaches always want to W but sometimes a L gets their attention, too.
 


I agree with the last comment. I think Tubby sensed a team reading its press clipping and rankings.
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Maybe even Trevor got in the act when he took a good look into the camera. It was either after a dunk or block. I didn't think it was a big deal but I wondered if it was indicative of where everyones head's were at. A bit of showtime?
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
Jon Scott www.bigbluehistory.net website probably has the information you are seeking.
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Geez, FOT, we sort of expect the Kentucky facts directly instead of having to glean them. Did follow some links though and it was interesting to see some of the specifics. Tubby certainly did deal with some similar adversity there with suspensions, ineligibility, injuries, and criticism. All the better for us since it led him here.
 

Tubby's substitution strategy is the reason I don't think I'll ever be 100% onboard with him. It drives me crazy. I don't always agree with Myron, but I do with this article. With TV timeouts and home court adrenaline, these guys should definitely be able to play close to full games. If you have a chance to open the game up big, then do it so things like this do not happen.

Devoe was a different player in the 2nd half. He played/shot very well in the first half because he was patient and allowed the ball to move around before shooting an open shot. In the 2nd half, he rushed and shot with 1 or no passes. Hopefully, this is being discussed at film day.

Looking forward to Part 2 today. We still have a great deal of positives.
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
I agree with the last comment. I think Tubby sensed a team reading its press clipping and rankings. Coaches always want to W but sometimes a L gets their attention, too.
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You agree that Tubby didn't care if they lost? Really?! I really don't think any good coach would not care if they lost just to teach their team a lesson. A win is a win and all wins are important when you don't know how the season will turn out. Coaches coach to win the game and always strive for perfection with their team. With the big 10 as good as it is this year you could not afford too many losses or you will be right back on the bubble. Who would not care if their team lost when it hurts your ranking and potential tournament seeding?
 

Mulligan said:
Geez, FOT, we sort of expect the Kentucky facts directly instead of having to glean them. Did follow some links though and it was interesting to see some of the specifics. Tubby certainly did deal with some similar adversity there with suspensions, ineligibility, injuries, and criticism. All the better for us since it led him here.
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Easier to glean FACTS from Jon Scott than me. Mine are sometimes opinion mixed with facts. Jon, rarely so.
 

CentralGopher said:
You agree that Tubby didn't care if they lost? Really?! I really don't think any good coach would not care if they lost just to teach their team a lesson. A win is a win and all wins are important when you don't know how the season will turn out. Coaches coach to win the game and always strive for perfection with their team. With the big 10 as good as it is this year you could not afford too many losses or you will be right back on the bubble. Who would not care if their team lost when it hurts your ranking and potential tournament seeding?
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I think the L gets their attention. They're not as good as they think. Certainly NOT Top 15. Not yet.
 



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