Mr. Streveler, your table is ready.

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Seriously have seen multiple D3 QBs that have better arms and are more accurate than Nelder.
 

(1) I think Leidner is a better pure passer than Nelson, but that doesn't mean all that much. Nelson's feet are all over the place and he just rushes things. That's not to say Leidner is light years better or anything like that. Nelson has a quicker release, so they both have strengths and weaknesses. As said above, these guys are still 19 years old.

(2) Someone mentioned Jordan Lynch. Good kid and all and yeah he was third in the Heisman vote, but let's remember he was eating up the MAC. If you watched the game against Utah State the other night, you would have sworn you saw Nelson or Leidner out there. Lynch had some nice passing stats, but he rarely checks down. If the first option isn't there, he tucks and runs. Utah State figured that out and shut him down.

(3) Which leads me to point number 3. I don't dog the coaches much. They know a lot more about football than I do, but if NIU is running the same passing offense as the Gophers, is there something in the scheme that is so simplistic that the second and third options just aren't there, so it's always tuck and run after the first read? Is it that the quality of WRs (and our guys are very young) is such they aren't getting open? Just found it curious after watching NIU and seeing so many similarities in the pattern of passing plays.
 

We know Nelson and Leidner have to make giant leaps in the next 8-months. BUT if you think a rFR that missed practice much of the year (Streveler) or a true Fr (Mckinzy) are going to step in next year and not have the same troubles you are crazy. Best chance for Gophs is for PN9 or #7 to figure something out in the off season. Mitch looked better in the 4th today, but if you look at all of 2013 I think Nelson has the bigger upside. Not that he didn't play bad today and at other times this year - but you can't just look at the 4th quarter of a single game either.
 

Our QB play was atrocious yesterday for three quarters, and for the last three weeks. Teams realize this, and know they can blitz, do man-to-man coverage, and load the box as much as they want and whenever they want. Three-and-out drives and inability to improve field position put our Defense in terrible position. The defense didn't play as well yesterday as they had against WI and MSU, but they were on the field for seemingly the entire first three quarters.

Of all the reasons we lost the last three games of the year, the biggest is atrocious QB play. I'm not sure how anyone at this point can say either Leidner or Nelson is the answer. Both are young, and will hopefully get better, but there has to be significant improvement from that position if we are going to improve as a team next year.
 

They are nineteen...so whats your point. QB's can only be good in their senior year. Ok, guess we only need to watch every 4 years.

atsgopher said:
Nelson is Nine****ingTeen. Liedner is Nine****ingTeen. Shortell was Nine****ingTeen. Gray was a WR. Give the kids time to develop. Now if we were talking about a redshirt JR QBs who were just starting QBs you may have a point. All of the above evidence is due to horrible circumstances inherent in starting a teenager. You need both physical and mental maturity to become a competent Big Ten QB. You need emotional maturity to be above average.

Anyone who has ever coached a "cerebral" position in sports (Point Gaurds, QB, Baseball players, Goalies, Tennis and Golfers) knows the difficulty teaching emotional control. It's extremely hard. Most adults never reach the level necessary even to be effective in their own jobs. Give the coaches a little breathing room on the criticism you learned watching the NFL.
Click to expand...
 


atsgopher said:
Nelson is Nine****ingTeen. Liedner is Nine****ingTeen. Shortell was Nine****ingTeen. Gray was a WR. Give the kids time to develop. Now if we were talking about a redshirt JR QBs who were just starting QBs you may have a point. All of the above evidence is due to horrible circumstances inherent in starting a teenager. You need both physical and mental maturity to become a competent Big Ten QB. You need emotional maturity to be above average.

Anyone who has ever coached a "cerebral" position in sports (Point Gaurds, QB, Baseball players, Goalies, Tennis and Golfers) knows the difficulty teaching emotional control. It's extremely hard. Most adults never reach the level necessary even to be effective in their own jobs. Give the coaches a little breathing room on the criticism you learned watching the NFL.
Click to expand...

The Syracuse QB was a redshirt sophomore who was a first year starter and is probably Nine****ingTeen. Yes you need to give guys time to develop, especially at the QB position but there are guys younger and less experienced then our guys all over the country making an impact so you can't put it all on youth.

Look at the Big Ten passing leaders on the season - Hackenburg FR, Sudfeld SO, Stave SO, Ruddock SO, Cook SO.....
 

MNVCGUY said:
The Syracuse QB was a redshirt sophomore who was a first year starter and is probably Nine****ingTeen. Yes you need to give guys time to develop, especially at the QB position but there are guys younger and less experienced then our guys all over the country making an impact so you can't put it all on youth.

Look at the Big Ten passing leaders on the season - Hackenburg FR, Sudfeld SO, Stave SO, Ruddock SO, Cook SO.....
Click to expand...

Yes, and two of these guys we beat and the others are on teams with top 15 defenses. I am confident that if our QBs were playing behind Sconnies o-line or with MSU's or IA's defense that they would have similar numbers. I am not one to say our QBs are too young too succeed...but it is a team game and during our winning streak our defense, special teams and o-line played well. Last night, they did not. Those that are calling for the back ups back up Streveler to start (r u kidding?) and that these two kids (yes they are kids) can't get better and haven't become Johnny Football in the last 2 weeks of practice should be gone are just fools.
 


What I learned (but didn't really learn because we all already know anyway): The QBs aren't good. They can't throw and are panicky. Also, the Gophers will do their absolute best to give the game away in big games. Been happening since before Kill and is obviously still the case.
 



Get Ryan Schlichte in here!

I really think we'll see big strides in Nelson's and Leidner's passing game next year. If Leidner can pass Nelson in effectiveness, that'd be great -- he has one more year of playing time.

I like having a Minnesota kid leading the team.
 

Nelson has had 18 games, 2 spring sessions, 2 bowl seasons to get better and he hasn't.

Leidner deserves a shot as the starter. To those who say Nelson looked better than Leidner this year...I don't know what to say. Those 4 Big Ten wins were team wins, Nelson didn't win the games for us. Nelson's shown a few flashes but they are woefully few and far between. Believe me, I WANT him to be good...frustrated.

Leidner has better passing and rushing statistics and more importantly the team seems to move the ball better when he's in there.

Why not let HIM develop as the starter when he's shown us more in his limited time (4-5 games) than Nelson has in 18 games? His decision-making and progressions can only get better with more reps with the starters. Nelson has had his opportunities and has played himself out of the starting spot.

Some of you are seriously into Christian Ponder, Tavaris Jackson denial territory with the "he'll get better next year" talk. What makes you think he's going to get any better? Serious question.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Nelson has had 18 games, 2 spring sessions, 2 bowl seasons to get better and he hasn't.

Leidner deserves a shot as the starter. To those who say Nelson looked better than Leidner this year...I don't know what to say. Those 4 Big Ten wins were team wins, Nelson didn't win the games for us. Nelson's shown a few flashes but they are woefully few and far between. Believe me, I WANT him to be good...frustrated.

Leidner has better passing and rushing statistics and more importantly the team seems to move the ball better when he's in there.

Why not let HIM develop as the starter when he's shown us more in his limited time (4-5 games) than Nelson has in 18 games? His decision-making and progressions can only get better with more reps with the starters. Nelson has had his opportunities and has played himself out of the starting spot.

Some of you are seriously into Christian Ponder, Tavaris Jackson denial territory with the "he'll get better next year" talk. What makes you think he's going to get any better? Serious question.
Click to expand...
Somebody else can recall better than me, but if Mitch hasn't fumbled in every game he's played in, it's close to nearly every game. Sure, he hasn't lost all of them, but you can't put the ball on the ground. Passing up and down the field doesn't do you a bit of good if you fumble in the redzone. Turning the ball over repeatedly is the easiest way to lose a matchup game.
 

Spoofin said:
We know Nelson and Leidner have to make giant leaps in the next 8-months. BUT if you think a rFR that missed practice much of the year (Streveler) or a true Fr (Mckinzy) are going to step in next year and not have the same troubles you are crazy. Best chance for Gophs is for PN9 or #7 to figure something out in the off season. Mitch looked better in the 4th today, but if you look at all of 2013 I think Nelson has the bigger upside. Not that he didn't play bad today and at other times this year - but you can't just look at the 4th quarter of a single game either.
Click to expand...

Nailed it. Resurrecting the Nelson who played during the 4 game winning streak is our best chance for next year.
 



Breakin' The Plane said:
Somebody else can recall better than me, but if Mitch hasn't fumbled in every game he's played in, it's close to nearly every game. Sure, he hasn't lost all of them, but you can't put the ball on the ground. Passing up and down the field doesn't do you a bit of good if you fumble in the redzone. Turning the ball over repeatedly is the easiest way to lose a matchup game.
Click to expand...

You're right but ball protection is something that can be fixed relatively quickly. We've seen that numerous times with kirkwood and Adrian Peterson and numerous other players early in their career.

It's much harder to fix confidence problems and all the fallout that comes from that: rushed passes, bad decisions, holding the ball too long.

Nelson has had an 18 game opportunity and his issues are not getting better. They look to be getting worse, positive-feedback style.

Why not give Leidner a shot to see if he can fix his issues? Bigger upside in my opinion.
 

John Galt said:
Nailed it. Resurrecting the Nelson who played during the 4 game winning streak is our best chance for next year.
Click to expand...

5 decent career games vs 13 atrocious. You must be a very patient person. Baby just give me one more chance!
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Some of you are seriously into Christian Ponder, Tavaris Jackson denial territory with the "he'll get better next year" talk. What makes you think he's going to get any better? Serious question.
Click to expand...

In football, a player typically reaches peak performance when they are around 25 years old. That's about the age of Ponder now and Jackson when he was finally replaced. Both of those guys were 3-4 years into their pro careers.

Nelson and Leidner are both 19.There is a reason senior-laden teams tend to perform better, it's because most players improve over the course of their college careers. If you are so quick to write-off underclassmen who aren't performing, you would have no doubt given up on Hageman and Cobb as well, right? Both Nelson and Leidner performed far better as underclassmen compared to either of those two.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
5 decent career games vs 13 atrocious. You must be a very patient person. Baby just give me one more chance!
Click to expand...

Nelson was lights out during the winning streak. Leidner has done nothing that remotely compares to how well Nelson played during those games.
 

John Galt said:
In football, a player typically reaches peak performance when they are around 25 years old. That's about the age of Ponder now and Jackson when he was finally replaced. Both of those guys were 3-4 years into their pro careers.

Nelson and Leidner are both 19.There is a reason senior-laden teams tend to perform better, it's because most players improve over the course of their college careers. If you are so quick to write-off underclassmen who aren't performing, you would have no doubt given up on Hageman and Cobb as well, right? Both Nelson and Leidner performed far better as underclassmen compared to either of those two.
Click to expand...

I've watched a lot of football over the years. Some kids have it Upstairs and some don't. We're now two years into the Phil Nelson era and his comp percentage went from 49.3 to 50.5. I guess that's progress.

Perhaps by his senior season we can hope for 52 percent. Part of it is on the receivers but Leidner has put up better numbers with the same guys with less reps with the starters. Period.

Most new starters show significant progress, Phil hasn't. I wish it were not so. I love the gophs and this team but the evidence is in plain sight.
 

Pompous Elitist said:
Nelson has had 18 games, 2 spring sessions, 2 bowl seasons to get better and he hasn't.

Leidner deserves a shot as the starter. To those who say Nelson looked better than Leidner this year...I don't know what to say. Those 4 Big Ten wins were team wins, Nelson didn't win the games for us. Nelson's shown a few flashes but they are woefully few and far between. Believe me, I WANT him to be good...frustrated.

Leidner has better passing and rushing statistics and more importantly the team seems to move the ball better when he's in there.

Why not let HIM develop as the starter when he's shown us more in his limited time (4-5 games) than Nelson has in 18 games? His decision-making and progressions can only get better with more reps with the starters. Nelson has had his opportunities and has played himself out of the starting spot.

Some of you are seriously into Christian Ponder, Tavaris Jackson denial territory with the "he'll get better next year" talk. What makes you think he's going to get any better? Serious question.
Click to expand...

Would I be right in summarizing your thoughts like this...

Gophers win with Nelson = team win.
Gophers lose with Nelson = PN9 loss.

I get it. You think Liedner is better. You are not alone. I think Nelson has higher upside. I'm not alone. The truth is neither one is very good right now & the best thing for the Gophers in 2014 would be for one of them, either one, to step up. I think that is more likely to be Nelson. I'm not alone. You think that is Leidner. You are not alone. And on we go....
 

The true measure of a man is how he performs under adversity. What I have seen is confidence problems and folding under pressure in big games. He had a few good games, yes. But you have to look at total production. Even during the preseason we saw issues.

He needs to work out his psychological issues. He has the physical tools. If the coaches want to stake their futures on Nelson then I guess we'll see that next year. I have a hunch they've seen enough as well but well see how it plays out.




10/19 @Northwestern W 20-17 8 11 112 72.7 29 1 0 188.3 9 26 2.9 7 0 73.8 79.0
10/26 Nebraska W 34-23 7 15 152 46.7 33 1 0 153.8 8 55 6.9 23 2 86.0 93.7
11/2 @Indiana W 42-39 16 23 298 69.6 50 4 0 235.8 7 11 1.6 7 0 94.6 90.8
11/9 Penn State W 24-10 15 24 186 62.5 27 1 0 141.4 12 40 3.3 16 1 90.3 91.5
 

No, Leidner has better statistics and has more command of himself. If Nelson was a better passer and field general I wouldn't be posting this.

The stats don't lie. The eyeball test doesn't lie.
 

atsgopher said:
Nelson is Nine****ingTeen. Liedner is Nine****ingTeen. Shortell was Nine****ingTeen. Gray was a WR. Give the kids time to develop. Now if we were talking about a redshirt JR QBs who were just starting QBs you may have a point. All of the above evidence is due to horrible circumstances inherent in starting a teenager. You need both physical and mental maturity to become a competent Big Ten QB. You need emotional maturity to be above average.

Anyone who has ever coached a "cerebral" position in sports (Point Gaurds, QB, Baseball players, Goalies, Tennis and Golfers) knows the difficulty teaching emotional control. It's extremely hard. Most adults never reach the level necessary even to be effective in their own jobs. Give the coaches a little breathing room on the criticism you learned watching the NFL.
Click to expand...

Guess how old the last two Heisman winners have been? Guess how old the leading passer in the Big Ten is?

And I didn't say anything about expecting these guys to be great QB's; I just ask for improvement. I haven't seen that from a single QB under Zebrowski/Limey/Kill. You would think there would be more marked improvement from somebody between their freshman and sophomore years (18 and 19) than you would an older player with less of a learning curve (learning the offense, what it's like to be a Big Ten player, etc.) or from somebody who was a receiver their first two years and had a lot to learn about the basics, too. Instead, we have a guy who's redshirt was burned last year so that he would progress faster, and here we are a season and a half later with two series of bowl practices and a spring practice included, and he has played worse in each of the past 3 games than he did in his first game. I wouldn't care if he was ten years old; he better be better than his nine year old self, especially since these are formative years with a supposedly fast growth rate.

That being said, maybe he's going through growing pains or having a rough time personally; I don't know. He may improve next year; I hope he does! And I hope Leidner does as well. I just know that from what we have seen in three years under this coaching staff, we have plenty of reason to begin questioning their development of quarterbacks because all 3 of our QB's that have played multiple seasons have shown significantly less improvement than was anticipated by just about everybody.
 

http://espn.go.com/college-football/conferences/statistics/player/_/id/5/big-ten-conference

PASSING YARDS LEADERS - ALL PLAYERS
RK PLAYER TEAM COMP ATT PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RAT
1 Nathan Scheelhaase, QB ILL 287 430 66.7 3272 7.6 72 21 13 28 140.7
2 Devin Gardner, QB MICH 208 345 60.3 2960 8.6 84 21 11 34 146.1
3 Christian Hackenberg, QB PSU 231 392 58.9 2955 7.5 68 20 10 21 134.0
4 Nate Sudfeld, QB IND 194 322 60.2 2523 7.8 77 21 9 16 142.0
5 Connor Cook, QB MSU 201 344 58.4 2423 7.0 87 20 5 12 133.9
6 Joel Stave, QB WIS 199 323 61.6 2414 7.5 65 20 12 15 137.4
7 Jake Rudock, QB IOWA 195 324 60.2 2281 7.0 85 18 12 11 130.2
8 Trevor Siemian, QB NW 178 298 59.7 2149 7.2 67 11 9 19 126.4
9 Braxton Miller, QB OSU 146 231 63.2 1860 8.1 58 22 5 16 157.9
10 Danny Etling, QB PUR 149 267 55.8 1690 6.3 80 10 7 31 116.1
RK PLAYER TEAM COMP ATT PCT YDS YDS/A LONG TD INT SACK RAT
11 Philip Nelson, QB MINN 94 186 50.5 1306 7.0 50 9 6 14 119.0
12 Tre Roberson, QB IND 83 138 60.1 1128 8.2 68 15 4 1 158.9
13 Ron Kellogg III, QB NEB 80 132 60.6 919 7.0 49 6 3 7 129.5
14 Rob Henry, QB PUR 81 152 53.3 832 5.5 50 4 6 8 100.1
15 Tommy Armstrong Jr., QB NEB 62 117 53.0 803 6.9 38 7 7 3 118.4
16 Kenny Guiton, QB OSU 75 109 68.8 749 6.9 90 14 2 1 165.2
17 Taylor Martinez, QB NEB 69 110 62.7 667 6.1 42 10 2 6 140.0
18 Mitch Leidner, QB MINN 43 78 55.1 619 7.9 55 3 1 13 131.9
19 Kain Colter, QB NW 63 80 78.8 577 7.2 31 4 3 17 148.3
20 Tyler Ferguson, QB PSU 10 15 66.7 155 10.3 65 1 0 0 175.5
 

I also really like Leidner's fire. The first step in success is desire.
 

Leidner needs to throw targets and throw passes a lot this offseason to as many guys that will work with him. That and spend time watching the film of the breakdown in protections and why he is getting sacked and losing the football on fumbles. Seems like the team responds better to him for some unknown reason his chemistry with the line seems to be better.
Nelson needs to get healthy and figure out his feet and how to use them to his advantage. Who was the kid he played ball with at Mankato perhaps he should ask him to walk on.
That and develop some chemistry with the offensive line and learn to distribute the ball a little more, he doesn't have to rely on himself to always try and make the running plays. Watch the Indiana film and what Nelson was doing well in that game, I want the four game win streak guy back, he we playing like a decent quarter back until he tweaked his hamstring and shoulder against Wisconsin.
Hopefully one of them takes the bull by the horns and runs with it. They need to compete hard and one needs to emerge from the others shadow, that is how it will likely need to be.
I don't know how much Strevlar can help us he will be a redshirt freshman that has had very little in the way of repetitions this year, his talent is unknown,
 

Neither Nelson or Leidner are Big Ten quarterbacks.

Hopefully one of the new guys steps up.
 

IMO the Gophers should find the best JUCO QB they can and sign him. Auburn has a JUCO QB and is playing for the national title. They also had another JUCO named Cam that did OK.
 

Keep in mind the Gophers have by far the worst receiving corps in the Big10, probably in Division 1 football over all. Throw it over their heads or in the dirt, it probably doesn't matter much because they have severe problems catching the ones that hit them in the hands. And that's if they manage to get open. Wolitarsky with his size shows some promise but dropped the game winner.
 

Send the receivers over to Coach Patino's rebounding drills to get aggressive.
 

Is Streveler certain to stay at QB? Marcus Fuller suggested in a tweet that he could switch positions.

Sent from my Nexus S 4G using Tapatalk
 

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