Mount Rushmore of gopher coaches

[Some guy]

Another thread triggered this question to me.
I feel it will be nearly unanimous for two.
I feel a third SHOULD be unanimous but he may be discounted due to his era.
No idea who the fourth is.

Unanimous
Bierman
Nearly unanimous:
Warmath
Probably should be unanimous
Williams


Who is number 4

 

[MNVCGUY]

Bierman and Warmath are slam dunks because they won National Championships

Willimas deserves a spot even though most of us know very little about him. 22 years at the school and a lot of wins back in the first part of the 1900s.

4th spot right now to me goes to Mason. Program was in complete shambles when he took over, he brought it back to respectability and paved the way for the success that the guys after him (outside of Brewster) have been able to achieve.

Fleck can replace Mason if he remains at Minnesota for a while longer and manages another season/s similar to 2019, but as of right now I would give Mase the edge in terms of a Mount Rushmore of football coaches.

 

[UpAndUnder43]

Fleck is ahead of Mason. By a lot.

He has more wins (66 vs 64), fewer losses (44 vs 57) , higher overall winning percentage (.600 vs. .530) and higher conference winning percentage (.4875 vs. .400)

Mason had a better grin and better hair.

 

[Some guy]

Fleck is ahead of Mason. By a lot.

He has more wins (66 vs 64), fewer losses (44 vs 57) , higher overall winning percentage (.600 vs. .530) and higher conference winning percentage (.4875 vs. .400)

Mason had a better grin and better hair.

Mason took over the program in a much worse spot though.

I personally think it’s between fleck and Cal Stoll

Stoll no bueno but also just one game under .500 in the big ten

 

[RememberMurray]

Fleck is ahead of Mason. By a lot.

He has more wins (66 vs 64), fewer losses (44 vs 57) , higher overall winning percentage (.600 vs. .530) and higher conference winning percentage (.4875 vs. .400)

Mason had a better grin and better hair.

Spot on.

How many seasons like 2019 did Mason have?

How many non-conference wins did Mason have, vs. Fleck? Fleck's winning % in the B1G is much higher. According to Wiki, Mason won 64 total games at Minnesota; half of them were non-conference. Mason was 32-48 in the B1G.

As far as the condition of the program is concerned, Mason was here for 10 years. I don't think that argument holds much weight after Year 2 or 3.

People like to talk about Fleck having reached his ceiling. When did Mason reach his ceiling?

Glen Mason - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

P. J. Fleck - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[UpAndUnder43]

Mason took over the program in a much worse spot though.

I personally think it’s between fleck and Cal Stoll

Stoll no bueno but also just one game under .500 in the big ten

Yeah—but take away the first couple years and I don’t think the percentages improve a ton. Maybe I’m wrong but also not going to dig into Glen Masons year 4-10 wins too deeply.

 

[WinMinGophers!]

WinMinGophers! goes on that. I coach from my phone better than anyone.

 

[WinMinGophers!]

WinMinGophers! goes on that. I coach from my phone better than anyone.

For example, here is my.coaching brilliance:

Sack that mo(%&×/^!!

 

[MNfootballfan]

4th spot right now to me goes to Mason. Program was in complete shambles when he took over, he brought it back to respectability and paved the way for the success that the guys after him (outside of Brewster) have been able to achieve.

Fleck can replace Mason if he remains at Minnesota for a while longer and manages another season/s similar to 2019, but as of right now I would give Mase the edge in terms of a Mount Rushmore of football coaches.

Huh?

Quick Comparison:
Seasons: Mason - 10 years, Fleck 9 years (with one year being a Covid season)
Record: Mason 64-57, Fleck 66-44
Big Ten Record: Mason 32-48, Fleck 39-40
Record vs. top 25: Mason 8-32, Fleck 12-21
Record vs. Iowa/Wisconsin: Mason 3-17, Fleck 6-12

Mason took over a rougher program but it wasn't like Fleck walked into a great situation.
The way Mason ran the program has no effect on Kill and/or Fleck's successes.

I like Mason, but PJ is better in pretty much every category, except Mason had one more win vs. Iowa.

 

[Unregistered User]

Grinnin’ Glen was the epitome of accepting mediocrity

There were too many years where I heard him after another mediocre season say “it’s tough to win at Minnesota” and just go to the golf course

He never had enough “want” to really elevate the program

 

[Married@SiebertField]

In alternative world, it wouid have been interesting to see how Mason’s teams would have fared at TCF stadium. Playing outdoors with a strong running game would have been a good combination. It also may have reduced his teams’ traditional struggles on defense.

 

[Gopher Mac]

I would say Fleck maybe Cal Stoll with Mason coming behind both.

 

[Gold Rush]

Glen Mason would have been an easy choice if he would have had the defense that Fleck had but for whatever reason never was able to get enough good defensive players in. His offense was really good, though.

Fleck is probably going to have the longevity to amass a lot more wins and you would have to give him the nod when all is said and done.

Lou Holtz was only here for 2 years and the turnaround he was able to accomplish was amazing. He was the best coach we have had over the last 50 years and went on to win a national championship, albeit at a different school. If he had stayed, there is no doubt he would be on that top 4 list. Things would have been a lot different for Gopher football in the 1980's and 1990's that's' for sure. (That is assuming they would have been able to stay away from a probation or the death penalty!!)

 

[MNVCGUY]

I think many of us have forgotten the complete joke this program had become prior to Mason taking over. Losing was expected and the team was a conference bottom feeder.

Mason came in and brought the program from the cellar to respectability. He had his ceiling and could never push it to the next level but he he did the heavy lifting to drag the program from terrible to solid.

That is why to me if the Mt. Rushmore is made today Mason gets a very slight nod over Fleck. In my opinion those two are the only two in contention for that 4th spot. If Fleck has a couple more good years and/or snags another double digit win season he will be the easy pick for the 4th spot.

 

[MNVCGUY]

Huh?

Quick Comparison:
Seasons: Mason - 10 years, Fleck 9 years (with one year being a Covid season)
Record: Mason 64-57, Fleck 66-44
Big Ten Record: Mason 32-48, Fleck 39-40
Record vs. top 25: Mason 8-32, Fleck 12-21
Record vs. Iowa/Wisconsin: Mason 3-17, Fleck 6-12

Mason took over a rougher program but it wasn't like Fleck walked into a great situation.
The way Mason ran the program has no effect on Kill and/or Fleck's successes.

I like Mason, but PJ is better in pretty much every category, except Mason had one more win vs. Iowa.

I posted my reasoning for Mason in the 4th spot in the post above. But yes, Fleck is better in basically all statistical categories and I would have no issue with him being in the 4th spot.

The only thing I will quibble with is the state of the program that each guy inherited. Fleck inherited a flawed roster but the program was on a solid footing. Mason inherited a program that was a complete dumpster fire of suckage. Losing was expected.

I was in school at that time and had a birdseye view of what was going on in the programs. Mason came in and changed everything. Mason was his own worst enemy and that led to him getting fired but he did a hell of a job reviving a program that was dead in the water before he got there.

 

[BilldGopher]

Mason would never be labeled "elite" but he did take the Gophers off the bottom.

PJ has not earned the "elite" label yet either but the book on him is still being written. Getting to 2019 levels again would push him past Mason.

I think Goldy should be on the mountain too.

 

[Stuff]

I think Clarence "Doc" Spears is worth a mention. He went 28–9–3 at his time at Minnesota with a conference record of 13-7-2. He was 4-0-1 against Wisconsin. He led the Gophers to a Co-championship in 1927.

He recruited Bronko Nagurski to Minnesota.

Although my favorite achievement of his may have been taking over the Wisconsin Badgers and completely tanking them to 1-7 by year 4 in 1935.

 

[4four4]

I think Clarence "Doc" Spears is worth a mention. He went 28–9–3 at his time at Minnesota with a conference record of 13-7-2. He was 4-0-1 against Wisconsin. He led the Gophers to a Co-championship in 1927.

He recruited Bronko Nagurski to Minnesota.

Although my favorite achievement of his may have been taking over the Wisconsin Badgers and completely tanking them to 1-7 by year 4 in 1935.

View attachment 42384

He's also in the college football hall of fame.

Minnesota Golden Gophers (Big Ten Conference) (1925–1929)
1925	Minnesota	5–2–1	1–1–1	T–4th
1926	Minnesota	5–3	2–2	T–6th
1927	Minnesota	6–0–2	3–0–1	T–1st
1928	Minnesota	6–2	4–2	3rd
1929	Minnesota	6–2	3–2	T–3rd
Minnesota:	28–9–3	13–7–2

 

[PMWinSTP]

I think Clarence "Doc" Spears is worth a mention. He went 28–9–3 at his time at Minnesota with a conference record of 13-7-2. He was 4-0-1 against Wisconsin. He led the Gophers to a Co-championship in 1927.

He recruited Bronko Nagurski to Minnesota.

Although my favorite achievement of his may have been taking over the Wisconsin Badgers and completely tanking them to 1-7 by year 4 in 1935.

View attachment 42384

The picture alone should get him there.

 

[GO4FAN5]

Butch Nash. I know. Not a head coach.

 

[Some Day...Maybe]

Huh?

Quick Comparison:
Seasons: Mason - 10 years, Fleck 9 years (with one year being a Covid season)
Record: Mason 64-57, Fleck 66-44
Big Ten Record: Mason 32-48, Fleck 39-40
Record vs. top 25: Mason 8-32, Fleck 12-21
Record vs. Iowa/Wisconsin: Mason 3-17, Fleck 6-12

Mason took over a rougher program but it wasn't like Fleck walked into a great situation.
The way Mason ran the program has no effect on Kill and/or Fleck's successes.

I like Mason, but PJ is better in pretty much every category, except Mason had one more win vs. Iowa.

And so far, nobody has even mentioned bowl wins/bowl record.

 

[Some Day...Maybe]

I think many of us have forgotten the complete joke this program had become prior to Mason taking over. Losing was expected and the team was a conference bottom feeder.

Mason came in and brought the program from the cellar to respectability. He had his ceiling and could never push it to the next level but he he did the heavy lifting to drag the program from terrible to solid.

That is why to me if the Mt. Rushmore is made today Mason gets a very slight nod over Fleck. In my opinion those two are the only two in contention for that 4th spot. If Fleck has a couple more good years and/or snags another double digit win season he will be the easy pick for the 4th spot.

You’re giving Mason way too much credit just because he followed incompetence. Kill did the same thing, and Fleck would have done the same thing. The only difference is that Kill and Fleck would have been more successful than Mason had they had Mason’s same tenure.

 

[gopherbadgerman]

Maybe if MN has a Mount Rushmore there should only be three heads in the rocks

 

[WindyCityGopher]

Given our sordid history over the last six decades, our fourth face should really just be this.

 

[50PoundHead]

Glen Mason would have been an easy choice if he would have had the defense that Fleck had but for whatever reason never was able to get enough good defensive players in. His offense was really good, though.

Fleck is probably going to have the longevity to amass a lot more wins and you would have to give him the nod when all is said and done.

Lou Holtz was only here for 2 years and the turnaround he was able to accomplish was amazing. He was the best coach we have had over the last 50 years and went on to win a national championship, albeit at a different school. If he had stayed, there is no doubt he would be on that top 4 list. Things would have been a lot different for Gopher football in the 1980's and 1990's that's' for sure. (That is assuming they would have been able to stay away from a probation or the death penalty!!)

If there was a coin fliip as to whether a recruit who could play on both sides of the ball would end up, Mason always tilted toward the offense in making those decisions. Matt Spaeth was a DE/TE. He took highly-recruited Edge Alex Daniels and tried to make him into an RB. Marion Barber III was recruited as a DB. JJ Watt was recruited as a TE. It wasn't universal and in the case of Barber, the decision ended up being the right one. As for Watt, no one could have seen that coming.

Mason thought offense-first, which is somewhat odd seeing that he was an LB as a player. He also seemed to go through Defensive Coordinators for whatever reason. If he would have found his Norm Parker, maybe he could have established a defensive identity.

I would arm wrestle WinMin for the fourth spot. Like him, I always call the right play.

 

[MNVCGUY]

You’re giving Mason way too much credit just because he followed incompetence. Kill did the same thing, and Fleck would have done the same thing. The only difference is that Kill and Fleck would have been more successful than Mason had they had Mason’s same tenure.

The incompetence Kill followed was not even close to what Mason followed.....it just wasn't.

Mason took over a program that had been a laughingstock of college football for decades before he got there. Kill just had to overcome one terrible hire and short dip before returning the program back to Mason levels. Every coach has work to do when they replace a fired coach but the work Mason had to do was significantly higher than anything Kill or Fleck had to do when they took over.

When Mason took over they could barely give student tickets away. Pretty sure a student season ticket was like $36 or something crazy like that.

I am not trying to say Mason was a great coach but he was instrumental in pulling the U of M out of the basement of the conference where the coaches before him had all failed to do so. I get it though, when people think of Mason they will think more about how it ended as opposed to how it was when he got here.

 

[Some guy]

The incompetence Kill followed was not even close to what Mason followed.....it just wasn't.

Agree.
Brewster, as bad as he was, was in bowl games 2/3 seasons preceding kill.

Mason took over a program that had been a laughingstock of college football for decades before he got there.

Not sure I agree with this. While the program had been down it wasnt until wacker that the program became a laughing stock.

Kill just had to overcome one terrible hire and short dip before returning the program back to Mason levels. Every coach has work to do when they replace a fired coach but the work Mason had to do was significantly higher than anything Kill or Fleck had to do when they took over.

When Mason took over they could barely give student tickets away. Pretty sure a student season ticket was like $36 or something crazy like that.

Agree with this

I am not trying to say Mason was a great coach but he was instrumental in pulling the U of M out of the basement of the conference where the coaches before him had all failed to do so. I get it though, when people think of Mason they will think more about how it ended as opposed to how it was when he got here.

Agree. Mason made people care again
Kill made people think more could be done that what Mason did.
Fleck made people mad that more hasn’t happened


They all progressed the program forward IMO.
In retrospect I wish Mason coached two more years then they hired kill right after Mason.