Most overrated player, 2008-09?

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Down with Goldy said:
If this is what your argument boils down to you're too dumb to even bother with.

I'm not saying he sucked. He's a very good player, as I've admitted in pretty much every post I've written. Based on his performance this year, particularly his shooting percentage, assist-to-turnover ratio, and dismal performance is against good teams, I think anyone discussing him as a possible player of the year was way off base. MVP? Yeah, I can see that, but not POY.
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Did anyone tout him as player of the year? Really? Anyone?

Where were you calling him overrated last March? After he demolished Georgetown and Wisconsin, I must have missed your thread saying he was overrated.

In the words of Boeheim, "Without Gerry McNamara we wouldn't have won ten fucking games is year! Not ten."

I would say the same for Curry this year. Good teams, with good defense can stop any one player, I cant blame him for getting somewhat bottled up against strong competition. The kid is a stud. He plays with intramural players for the most part. That is why his FG% isnt stellar and his TO rate is higher this year, he is doing 100% of the work. He has to create and take chances, the ball is constantly in his hands and revolving around him. Have you watched Davidson at all this year? Or did you just tune in for that one Purdue game?
 



What Up Guy said:
Did anyone tout him as player of the year? Really? Anyone?

Where were you calling him overrated last March? After he demolished Georgetown and Wisconsin, I must have missed your thread saying he was overrated.

In the words of Boeheim, "Without Gerry McNamara we wouldn't have won ten fucking games is year! Not ten."

I would say the same for Curry this year. Good teams, with good defense can stop any one player, I cant blame him for getting somewhat bottled up against strong competition. The kid is a stud. He plays with intramural players for the most part. That is why his FG% isnt stellar and his TO rate is higher this year, he is doing 100% of the work. He has to create and take chances, the ball is constantly in his hands and revolving around him. Have you watched Davidson at all this year? Or did you just tune in for that one Purdue game?
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Put Curry on any top-25 team and he averages 25 points and shoots over 50%...and probably still averages 5 assists or whatever he averaged.
 

also is near the top in turnovers, looks like we have a case of Brett Favre syndrome here with Curry
 



Ok, I give up. You're pretty clearly not paying attention to what I'm saying, and keep apologizing for his shortcomings by blaming it on his teammates.

Look, he's one of the best guards in the country. He also makes a ton of mistakes and forces shots he has no business taking - no matter who your teammates are, there are some shots you just can't make. And if you're the focal point of a defense, become a better distributor (but I'm sure you'll just blame that on his teammates too).

Seriously, not only did I watch him a lot, but I have actual concrete numbers to back up my assertions. Look around, their in every post I've made. So far your arguments have been:

1. I'm an idiot
2. I never played basketball passed fifth grade
3. Jim Boeheim thinks Gerry McNamara is really good
4. Curry's teammates are bad
5. I've only watched Curry play once

Please tell me you have something else, because this is really unconvincing
 

Even if you don't think Curry is overrated you have to believe that he is overhyped by the media. Curry was the reason Davidson was on ESPN and CBS more than the Gophers and they weren't really that close to making the NCAAs.

Plus, if Curry was on the Gophers and he took some of the shots he takes now Tubby would've yanked his a$$ so fast it would've made his head spin.
 

Down with Goldy said:
Field goal percentage is an overrated stat when evaluating players? I can't seriously believe that was typed.
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Its a lame stat, because it is completely skewed between front and back court players.

Thabeet has a very high FG %, but I dont think anyone on here would say he is offensively great. He makes a lot of dunks. Thus a high %, thus a mis leading stat.

Guess who led the Gophers with .603 FG %...Colton Iverson. Is he an offensive juggernaut?? Thats why its a brutal stat especially when comparing front and back court players.

You said scoring is what matters.

You also didnt even touch the steals comment (he plays defense too!).

Scoring, assisting, and stealing. What more do you want from a one man show? Honestly? Especially playing out of position (he is not a PG he is a shooting guard).

I didnt say he was the best player in the NCAA, but to say he is vastly over rated is crap. And he is certainly one of the best.

BTW did you watch the tourney in 2008? When he single handedly slayed Wisky and Georgetown and Gonzaga and was a shot away from taking down Kansas??? All solid teams and he lit em up. This notion he chokes big time against good teams is a cherry-picking stats exercise.

Show me another back court player that gets double teamed like he does. That affects his efficiency as much as anything. You are looking at his 2008-2009 stats.

Go look at this stats the year they made the NCAA's too--a year he finished even higher with 32 ppg
 



Even if you don't think Curry is overrated you have to believe that he is overhyped by the media. Curry was the reason Davidson was on ESPN and CBS more than the Gophers and they weren't really that close to making the NCAAs.
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Umm...i dont know if you have cable...but there is something called the "Big Ten Network" that is contractually set up to carry Gopher games. Thats probably why he makes more appearances on ESPN than the Gophers who are contractually obligated to appear on another network.

Curry had one of the most amazing NCAA tourney performances EVER. He was a top scorer last year and was this year. Why would you not pay attention to him? Arguably the best pure shooter in the NCAA's.
 


aoftelie said:
Umm...i dont know if you have cable...but there is something called the "Big Ten Network" that is contractually set up to carry Gopher games. Thats probably why he makes more appearances on ESPN than the Gophers who are contractually obligated to appear on another network.

Curry had one of the most amazing NCAA tourney performances EVER. He was a top scorer last year and was this year. Why would you not pay attention to him? Arguably the best pure shooter in the NCAA's.
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You're quite the ass aren't you. Guess what? The BTN doesn't come free in Colorado....
 

aoftelie said:
Its a lame stat, because it is completely skewed between front and back court players.

Thabeet has a very high FG %, but I dont think anyone on here would say he is offensively great. He makes a lot of dunks. Thus a high %, thus a mis leading stat.

Guess who led the Gophers with .603 FG %...Colton Iverson. Is he an offensive juggernaut?? Thats why its a brutal stat especially when comparing front and back court players.

You said scoring is what matters.

You also didnt even touch the steals comment (he plays defense too!).

Scoring, assisting, and stealing. What more do you want from a one man show? Honestly? Especially playing out of position (he is not a PG he is a shooting guard).

I didnt say he was the best player in the NCAA, but to say he is vastly over rated is crap. And he is certainly one of the best.

BTW did you watch the tourney in 2008? When he single handedly slayed Wisky and Georgetown and Gonzaga and was a shot away from taking down Kansas??? All solid teams and he lit em up. This notion he chokes big time against good teams is a cherry-picking stats exercise.

Show me another back court player that gets double teamed like he does. That affects his efficiency as much as anything. You are looking at his 2008-2009 stats.

Go look at this stats the year they made the NCAA's too--a year he finished even higher with 32 ppg
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See? Now THIS is a good argument.

I completely agree on field goal percentage. That's why I tried to compare him to other shooting guards, and stayed away from forwards and centers.

I also am glad you brought up that he was trying to play out of position for most of the year. It's a very good point, and goes a long way towards explaining his high turnover total.

I disagree, however, that looking at how he does against good teams is worthless - and I also never said he choked. He played poorly against better teams, and beat up on bad teams. The numbers bear that out.

I honestly think we're pretty close here on our feelings about Curry. I tend to think that he's an excellent player, but tries to do way too much, even on a team he is admittedly asked to carry, and I think he gets way more press and praise than he should and that's the part that drives me crazy and drives me to point out his faults.
 



Down with Goldy said:
See? Now THIS is a good argument.

I completely agree on field goal percentage. That's why I tried to compare him to other shooting guards, and stayed away from forwards and centers.

I also am glad you brought up that he was trying to play out of position for most of the year. It's a very good point, and goes a long way towards explaining his high turnover total.

I disagree, however, that looking at how he does against good teams is worthless - and I also never said he choked. He played poorly against better teams, and beat up on bad teams. The numbers bear that out.

I honestly think we're pretty close here on our feelings about Curry.
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At least you didnt call me an ass!!:D

I guess I dont know who said he was POTY? I dont think so. Its Blake Griffin and its not even debateable.

However Curry is probably one of the top 5 players in the NCAA IMHO. He had good games, and tough games (everyone does), but he produced at a very high level through out the year, playing out of position, double teamed, with little supporting cast.

Kid can score from anywhere
 

If you were starting an NBA franchise, would you prefer to build around Griffin or Curry? Man vs kid. Brute vs. house pet. I think Curry's peaked.
 

Gopher4Life said:
If you were starting an NBA franchise, would you prefer to build around Griffin or Curry? Man vs kid. Brute vs. house pet. I think Curry's peaked.
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Where the hell does this argument even come from? It has nothing to do with this thread.
 

aoftelie said:
At least you didnt call me an ass!!:D

I guess I dont know who said he was POTY? I dont think so. Its Blake Griffin and its not even debateable.

However Curry is probably one of the top 5 players in the NCAA IMHO. He had good games, and tough games (everyone does), but he produced at a very high level through out the year, playing out of position, double teamed, with little supporting cast.

Kid can score from anywhere
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It's nice to have this conversation with an adult who can make coherent points.

I disagree he's top five, but he might be top 10. It's so hard to evaluate him based on his circumstances. I wish he'd play one more year, but also transfer to a big-time school so we can get a better idea (like Seth did).

And when I reference the POY debate, I'm talking more about beginning-to-middle of this year when his name came up all the time - before he got hurt and Griffin clearly separated himself.
 

Down with Goldy said:
It's nice to have this conversation with an adult who can make coherent points.

I disagree he's top five, but he might be top 10. It's so hard to evaluate him based on his circumstances. I wish he'd play one more year, but also transfer to a big-time school so we can get a better idea (like Seth did).

And when I reference the POY debate, I'm talking more about beginning-to-middle of this year when his name came up all the time - before he got hurt and Griffin clearly separated himself.
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Yeah I never thought he was POTY at any point this year. Its pretty hard to be POY as a back court player without any support playing out of position. He has to do too much. He wasnt POTY last year either as the set-in-stone 2G but god damn he was awesome.

But the kid can stroke as good if not better than anyone I have seen in a long time. Pure shooter. Also a high hoops IQ. Thats what I love about hoops: shooters and smart players. I am not a dunking guy--I love Larry Legend and Pistol and even big men with touch like Malone and Hakeem. Those are the skills I idolize. Doesnt make you the best player--but thats what I love.

I hope Curry stays--he is good for college hoops. Someone scoring at his level, and seems like an articulate bright kid, and doing it away from the brights lights of tobacco road, LA, or somewhere in Pennsylvania. He strikes me as more of the "student athlete" type than many of the other guys playing at his level and I can appreciate that too.
 

aoftelie said:
Yeah I never thought he was POTY at any point this year. Its pretty hard to be POY as a back court player without any support playing out of position. He has to do too much. He wasnt POTY last year either as the set-in-stone 2G but god damn he was awesome.

But the kid can stroke as good if not better than anyone I have seen in a long time. Pure shooter. Also a high hoops IQ. Thats what I love about hoops: shooters and smart players. I am not a dunking guy--I love Larry Legend and Pistol and even big men with touch like Malone and Hakeem. Those are the skills I idolize. Doesnt make you the best player--but thats what I love.

I hope Curry stays--he is good for college hoops. Someone scoring at his level, and seems like an articulate bright kid, and doing it away from the brights lights of tobacco road, LA, or somewhere in Pennsylvania. He strikes me as more of the "student athlete" type than many of the other guys playing at his level and I can appreciate that too.
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I apologize for calling you that...I just felt you were attacking me for not having the BTN. Curry is a great player and he can shoot great. I just thought he receives accolades because of his performance in the NCAA Tournament last year (where he was the best player).
 

Son of a Badger said:
I apologize for calling you that...I just felt you were attacking me for not having the BTN. Curry is a great player and he can shoot great. I just thought he receives accolades because of his performance in the NCAA Tournament last year (where he was the best player).
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Not attacking at all. Just stating what I would guess the main reason he is on ESPN and we werent. No Big Ten teams (MSU, PU etc) got any ESPN love--they dislike our league anyways.

He did struggle at points this year--but he would still be my 2G if I was putting together a team.

Who would your teams be? This might be an interesting transition topic....

Mine would be
Eric Maynor PG
Steph Curry SG
Sam Young SF
Blake Griffin PF
DuJuan Blair C

Now Ty Lawson could be on here but I loved Maynor's game/grit. Patty Mills was great for St Mary's, and that lil PG for Sienna was my favorite player of the tourney--covered the court in like 1 second end-to-end and made some great feeds. Maybe not consistent, and very small against bigger players, but he was exciting as hell to watch.
 

I'd have to go with

Johnny Flynn PG
Tyreke Evans SG (He wasn't as effective when Memphis moved him to PG, I'd go with Curry after Evans)
Robbie Hummel SF
Blake Griffin PF
DuJuan Blair

Regardless of the lineup I've always liked Villanova and how they play small with guys that can shoot.
 


Down With Goldy

I would't take what this guy says to serious. I've read his blog and he is always blathering on about how good Rico Tucker is. He's actually used the same argument that if he was in a better situation that he would be able to showcase his talents. Basically he's the biggest hypocrite on the internet.
 

John said:
I would't take what this guy says to serious. I've read his blog and he is always blathering on about how good Rico Tucker is. He's actually used the same argument that if he was in a better situation that he would be able to showcase his talents. Basically he's the biggest hypocrite on the internet.
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The Tucker thing is a bit, as should be obvious.
 

Down With....

Thats funny because I read where people asked you if it was a bit and you said no. You have also bragged about being his Facebook friend. Doesn't sound like a bit to me. Sounds like an unhealthy obsession with a terrible basketball player.
 

If he's bragging about being his facebook friend then i would be willing to bet that its a bit.
 

Gopherholefan said:
I would have to say Hansbrough for most over-rated player of the year. A close 2nd to Harangody.
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Apparently you don't watch Hansbrough play much? The times I catch him he is simply dominant. I understand that Blake Griffin outplayed him, but UNC still dominated the game, so why would he care. Simply put, the guy is one of the classic competitors who has and will succeed at any level.
 

cncmin said:
Simply put, the guy is one of the classic competitors who has and will succeed at any level.
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Agreed that Hansbrough is a gamer. TOugh kid with lots of hustle, and he has been great in college, but have you seen his offensive game?? He has that awkward little floater/jump shot. That wont go anywhere in the NBA--swatted all day long. He is OK as a spot up shooter, but def not exceptional for a big man. He can hustle and get second chance points, but his reliance on that awkward shot will really hurt him at the next level. No jump hook or real post moves--he just uses his determination and strength--which works in the NCAA but just aint enough in the NBA.
 

This topic is kind of all over the place.

As far as overrated players, I feel like Levance Fields gets a lot more attention than he deserves. Yes, he hit a huge shot in the Tournament, but outside of that, he really doesn't impress me that much. He played on a great team.

Concering Stephen Curry, I don't think he has neccesarily peaked. He needs to hit it hard with a personal trainer before he gets to the NBA and put on some serious muscle. He has a few things going for him that will help him succeed. One, he has an incredibly high basketball IQ. He makes up for his lack of raw athleticism with very smart play. Second, he has a sweet stroke. If you can shoot it, you can usually find a place in the League. Now I know there are cases such as JJ Redick or Adam Morrison that they haven't found success. But Curry is a more complete player than both of them. He is a great passer and clutch player. I think Curry could be similar to a Richard Hamilton.

Two of you guys put together your team, mine would be...

PG Ty Lawson
SG Stephen Curry
SF Sam Young
PF Blake Griffin
C Cole Aldrich
 

I would vote for Damian Johnson. Watching some of these teams in the tournament is making it more difficult to gloss over his deficiency on the glass.
 

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