Most overrated player, 2008-09?

Donate To GopherHole
S

SelectionSunday

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Messages
24,833
Reaction score
5,174
Points
113
Who's your most overrated player for the 2008-09 college basketball season?

My vote to goes to Notre Dame's Luke Harangody. Impressive numbers, but not all that impressed with his game. Allergic to defense. Digger Phelps thinks he's awesome though, so he must be pretty good.

Runner-up: Raymar Morgan, Michigan State. It's a testament to Sparty's depth that they've advanced this far receiving so little from Morgan. I know he's been sick, hurt or whatever, but he's about as confounding as they come. When Izzo used the word "fragile" to describe the Spartans earlier this season, I think his finger was pointing primarily at Morgan. The man just has bad body language too often & he usually has 2 fouls before the first TV timeout.
 

My pick would be the media darling Stephan Curry. I know everyone loves him but if you look at his stats against both quality teams and some average teams his stats (other than points scored) are really not that impressive.

Vs. Tournament Teams:
Oklahoma - 12-29, 6-15 from 3, 3 assists, 3 TOs
West Virginia - 9-27, 5-11 from 3, 10 assists, 8 TOs
Purdue - 5-26, 2-12 from 3, 6 assists, 6 TOs
Duke - 10-22, 1-8 from 3, 6 assists, 7 TOs
Butler - 6-23, 2-13 from 3, 6 assists, 7 TOs

Vs. Non-Tounament Teams
Guilford - 9-20, 3-9 from 3,
Loyola - 0-3, 0-1 from 3
UT-Chattanooga - 9-21, 5-11 from 3
Samford - 6-20, 2-11 from 3

While I will admit he did have some good games this year, the reason he scores so many points if because he takes so many shots. Honestly, Curry may be one of the most overrated players in a long time. (Credit to downwithgoldy for the realization that Curry is really not that great).

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=32284
 

Alex Legion

Revisiting a player we talked about earlier in the year, Alex Legion might have had the worst hype to production ratio in the country this year. He was supposed to put Illinois over the top, but down the stretch he was such a liability that he wasn't even put into games. He shot 29% this year!

It's not unusual for a player to get overhyped when he's sitting out (like Sid's columns about the transfer player always "dominating" in practices) but Legion was so incredibly bad when he played that it stands out.
 

Tyler Hansbrough....I think UNC might be better when he's NOT playing.
 



I got into this "overrated" stuff a year or two ago. It wasn't pretty ... but did that ever stop me?

Gopher: Tough call. I started by calling Al Nolen overrated early in the non-conference schedule and got blasted by a few posters. Unfortunately, I was still giving him too much credit, as I said he was an average Big Ten guard ... and then Al went out and did his damnedest to prove me wrong. I don't think any current Gopher is currently overrated.

Nation Wide: I would think it would have to be someone on the country's most overrated team, which I think is UCLA this year (Don't gloat Dukies, you weren't far behind). I'm going with Darren Collison. A nice player, but overrated because so many NBA draft boards still consider him first round material. (Luke Harangody is usually buried deep into the second round and Tyler Hansbrough is very late first).
 

Greg Monroe / Darren Collison

This year College Basketball did not have the Derrick Rose or Michael Beasley type of freshman that dominated games all year long. Greg Monroe was the most hyped recruit coming out of high-school this past year and he disappeared for long stretches this year on a Georgetown team that lost in the 2nd or 3rd round of the NIT. It will be interesting to see what becomes of him in the next year or so.



From Mikie S:

Nation Wide: I would think it would have to be someone on the country's most overrated team, which I think is UCLA this year (Don't gloat Dukies, you weren't far behind). I'm going with Darren Collison. A nice player, but overrated because so many NBA draft boards still consider him first round material. (Luke Harangody is usually buried deep into the second round and Tyler Hansbrough is very late first).
Click to expand...

Gotta disagree on Darren Collison. He had the scoring, play-making, and the defensive assignment of the best opposing player squarely on his shoulders all year. (Josh Shipp was his main running mate. Josh Shipp was All-Inconsistency First Team the past two years.) No way was he over-rated this year. IMO, Collison was the ONLY reason UCLA made the tournament and didn't go .500 this year. Not sure if he'll be a great NBA player, but I would kill to have a guard like him in Maroon & Gold. Cool cucumber, great shooter, quick as all get out.
 

Most Overrated

Somardo Samuels - Louisville
Jon Leuer - Wisconsin
Kyle Singler - Duke
Hasheem Thabeet - UConn
 

josh087 said:
Somardo Samuels - Louisville
Click to expand...

I saw two full Louisville games, and I am still wondering how this guy ever scored a point this year. If I hadn't heard all the hype, I never even would have noticed him playing. Obviously, he wasn't that bad all year, but in the Gopher and MSU games, he was completely nonexistent.
 



Son of a Badger said:
My pick would be the media darling Stephan Curry. I know everyone loves him but if you look at his stats against both quality teams and some average teams his stats (other than points scored) are really not that impressive.

Vs. Tournament Teams:
Oklahoma - 12-29, 6-15 from 3, 3 assists, 3 TOs
West Virginia - 9-27, 5-11 from 3, 10 assists, 8 TOs
Purdue - 5-26, 2-12 from 3, 6 assists, 6 TOs
Duke - 10-22, 1-8 from 3, 6 assists, 7 TOs
Butler - 6-23, 2-13 from 3, 6 assists, 7 TOs

Vs. Non-Tounament Teams
Guilford - 9-20, 3-9 from 3,
Loyola - 0-3, 0-1 from 3
UT-Chattanooga - 9-21, 5-11 from 3
Samford - 6-20, 2-11 from 3

While I will admit he did have some good games this year, the reason he scores so many points if because he takes so many shots. Honestly, Curry may be one of the most overrated players in a long time. (Credit to downwithgoldy for the realization that Curry is really not that great).

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=32284
Click to expand...

Don't rate him by his stats, watch the kid play. He is amazing. Put him on the Gophers this past season and we may have very well come close to winning the Big Ten. He is a shooting guard that had to play the point or he may have never seen the ball.

He scored 44 points on Oklahoma @ their place and 29 @ duke. I see that he didn't always have great games, but he is a very good shooter and can really score.
 

josh087 said:
Somardo Samuels - Louisville
Jon Leuer - Wisconsin
Kyle Singler - Duke
Hasheem Thabeet - UConn
Click to expand...

Thabeet? How can you call a guy that averages 4 blocks a game, and makes lane-driving PG's poop their pants, overrated? Seriously. He's not supposed to be a great offensive threat, and he's only been playing the game for like 5 years.
 

I would have to say Hansbrough for most over-rated player of the year. A close 2nd to Harangody.
 

WilliamsArenaGuy said:
I saw two full Louisville games, and I am still wondering how this guy ever scored a point this year. If I hadn't heard all the hype, I never even would have noticed him playing. Obviously, he wasn't that bad all year, but in the Gopher and MSU games, he was completely nonexistent.
Click to expand...

I would have to agree with samuels here also. He's an undersized post, and I have yet to see why he was supposed to be one of the top freshmen this year.
 



Curry is not overrated. If you watched the game vs. West Virgina (one of the examples that you cited with regards to your thought of him being overrated), he absolutely took that game over at the end, and basically won it for them.
 

JDGopher said:
Curry is not overrated. If you watched the game vs. West Virgina (one of the examples that you cited with regards to your thought of him being overrated), he absolutely took that game over at the end, and basically won it for them.
Click to expand...

He was 9-27 and 4-16 from 3. He helped put his team in the position where he had to take over the game. Look, I'm not saying he's a bad player, I like Curry but the fact that the media thinks he is the best thing since sliced bread gets old. The media was just looking for reasons to get them into the Tournament.
 

I know what you're saying, but I still disagree. He was ice cold before the last 5 or so minutes, but more than made up for it. On top of that, I believe his average for assists is pretty high nationwide, maybe even top 10 or 20 overall.

Anyway, my point is this: when you are the focal point of your teams offense, the other team knows it. Especially against those big schools, they have players who can shut you down, especially if they key on you. I would venture to say that although he shot poorly in some of those games, the fact that he found those points is still impressive.

Though, I have seen games where he forces way too much, I won't lie about that.

I guess I wouldn't call him overrated or underrated, but I would be willing to wager that with him, the Gophers are a legitimate threat to win the BT and make it to the Sweet 16, or further.
 

I agree with Son of a Badger. It's not that Curry is a horrible player, it's just that everyone focuses on the good and ignores the bad - similar to what went on for years with Brett Favre.

Yes, Curry was incredible at the end of that West Virginia game, as well as the end of the Oklahoma game and last year's NCAA tournament. But look at the overall game. Look at the numbers against good teams. He was without question the most overrated player in the entire NCAA this season.

And I know people like to toss out the argument that he plays on a bad team so he has to do those things. But that's all we have to go on. We don't know how he would be with better players around him. All we can say for sure is that he is a highly inefficient player against quality teams, and was all season long.
 

In Curry's games against teams in the RPI top 120 (Oklahoma, NC State, West Virginia, Purdue, Duke, Butler, and Charleston x 3, South Carolina, St Marys) he has shot 95-272 (36%) including 34-130 from three (26%), with a 58-60 assist to turnover ratio.

Meanwhile, in his other games, he has shot 211-392 (54%) including 94-193 (49%) from three, and has a 125-59 assist to turnover ratio.

It's really hard for me to praise a guy who pads his statistics against the bad teams, including all his conference games, and can't even approach the same level of production against top teams.

Again, he has streaks that are very impressive at times against good teams, but all that does is mask the poor game he had leading up to it. Like you brought up the end of the West Virginia game, where he was no doubt very impressive down at the end, when I think he hit three three-pointers in the final few minutes. But that's all anybody remembers or talks about. You never hear about how he turned it over 8 times in that game, or how he was shooting 25% for the game before that, or how he was 1-13 on threes before the last three.

Good player? Yes. Great at the end of the game? Yes. But the fact that he was even discussed as a possible national player of the year is a joke.
 

Down with Goldy said:
Good player? Yes. Great at the end of the game? Yes. But the fact that he was even discussed as a possible national player of the year is a joke.
Click to expand...

Curry's ranks among all NCAA players this year

Points per game: #1
Assists per game #22
Steals per game: #13
Free throw %: #6

btw of the 21 players who averaged more assists per game than Curry this year--only 3 averaged more than 20 ppg. None touched Curry average 29 ppg, next closest guy who had 25 ppg (played for Chicago State)

This guy is scoring, stealing, and dishing as good as anyone in college hoops. And he has little to no supporting cast so he is constantly double teamed. He was easily the most doubled teamed back court player in the NCAA this year.

Oh...and like you readily admit, he can take over a game, and can hit clutch shots.

God he sucks!!!!!:eek:
 

Plus I think using field goal percentages

is one of your lamest cherry-picking arguments you can find. Some kid could sit in the corner and spot up shoot and get some decents points, and have great %. Is he one of the best in the NCAA??

Curry scores, steals, and assists all within the top 25 in the nation.

BTW he is the only guy that falls within the top 25 for these three categories--arguably the three most important for a guard.
 

Wait what






Wait what conference did he play in? A player of his caliber should have great stats when you play in a mid-major. Plus no one ever said that Curry sucked.
 

You guys are idiots, Curry is not overrated.

He is the only player on his team, everyone on the other team spends all their energy trying to stop him. Besides Lovedale, that Davidson team was BRUTAL outside of Curry. He faced defenses we have never seen before this year (i.e. the game he only took 2 shots but Davidson still won huge). Give him a few players to compliment him and take the pressure off him and I doubt you would be calling him overrated.

Overrated is Levance Fields.
 

I know a lot of people like him, but as far as our own Gophers go, Westbrook is overrated, thought I admire his heart and effort.
 

JDGopher said:
I know a lot of people like him, but as far as our own Gophers go, Westbrook is overrated, thought I admire his heart and effort.
Click to expand...

All he does is beat the Badgers. I know what you're saying but if all he ever does the rest of his career is light the Badgers up to sweep them again next year I won't say a bad thing about him.

I don't really think anybody believes Westbrook is a star. We are a team that lacks any stars and because he was the leading scorer the broadcasters had to call him a "key to the game" every game.
 

Field goal percentage is an overrated stat when evaluating players? I can't seriously believe that was typed. The entire goal of the sport is to make baskets, and, against good teams, Curry was extremely inefficient at doing it.

You point to his scoring average, and leading the country in points per game. Sure, that's impressive, but he was also second in the country in field goal attempts, so wouldn't it logically follow that he would be close to the top in scoring, just based on sheer volume? Would you rather have Curry, who scores 28.6 points in a game and takes 20.2 shots to do it, or someone like Jodie Meeks (also a guard), who averaged 23.7 points per game, but only needed 15.8 shots? How about another guard, James Harden, who averaged 20.1 points on just 12.9 field goal attempts?

Next up, you point to his assists per game, an impressive 5.7 per game, ranking him 22nd in the country. Of course, he also turned it over 3.7 times per game. Of the 21 guys who averaged more assists per game than him, only two (Chris Lowe of UMass and David Holston of Chicago State) turned it over more than he did. How impressive is a 1.5 assist-to-turnover ratio?

Combine that information with the info I posted earlier in this thread comparing his stats against top 120 teams to his production against weaker teams, and I honestly don't see any way this guy isn't overrated.

I get your argument is that he has a poor surrounding cast, but aren't we basing our opinions on what we actually see, not scenarios you can dream up in your head? The fact is that he played the season. We saw it. It happened. You may think if he was on a good team he'd be a superstar, but I think it's just as likely he'd be a spot up shooter - a damn good one, but still a spot up shooter. WE WILL NEVER KNOW. Based on his ACTUAL performance, he is NOT an all-american. He beat up on bad teams, and sucked against good ones. It happened.
 

Down with Goldy said:
Field goal percentage is an overrated stat when evaluating players? I can't seriously believe that was typed. The entire goal of the sport is to make baskets, and, against good teams, Curry was extremely inefficient at doing it.

You point to his scoring average, and leading the country in points per game. Sure, that's impressive, but he was also second in the country in field goal attempts, so wouldn't it logically follow that he would be close to the top in scoring, just based on sheer volume? Would you rather have Curry, who scores 28.6 points in a game and takes 20.2 shots to do it, or someone like Jodie Meeks (also a guard), who averaged 23.7 points per game, but only needed 15.8 shots? How about another guard, James Harden, who averaged 20.1 points on just 12.9 field goal attempts?

Next up, you point to his assists per game, an impressive 5.7 per game, ranking him 22nd in the country. Of course, he also turned it over 3.7 times per game. Of the 21 guys who averaged more assists per game than him, only two (Chris Lowe of UMass and David Holston of Chicago State) turned it over more than he did. How impressive is a 1.5 assist-to-turnover ratio?

Combine that information with the info I posted earlier in this thread comparing his stats against top 120 teams to his production against weaker teams, and I honestly don't see any way this guy isn't overrated.

I get your argument is that he has a poor surrounding cast, but aren't we basing our opinions on what we actually see, not scenarios you can dream up in your head? The fact is that he played the season. We saw it. It happened. You may think if he was on a good team he'd be a superstar, but I think it's just as likely he'd be a spot up shooter - a damn good one, but still a spot up shooter. WE WILL NEVER KNOW. Based on his ACTUAL performance, he is NOT an all-american. He beat up on bad teams, and sucked against good ones. It happened.
Click to expand...

No, what we saw was him carry a rag tag group of absolute scrubs through the entire season, constantly double and triple teamed at every turn, to the verge of an NCAA birth. They beat WVU, a very tough Big East team. I dont take anything away from him for his poor shooting % when his entire team is just looking at him to create and score every single basket. Put any superstar guard in the country in his shoes and I guarantee they wouldn't do as good as him. He is more than just a "spot up shooter" we know this because we saw it last year in the tourney when he was paired with a legit PG (that white guy who graduated), he was playing the 2 and got a lot better looks and flat out dominated.

I guarantee that you never played organized basketball past 5th grade or were never a scorer. You dont know what its like when the entire team constantly looks at you to do everyone on offense. I am amazed he managed to average near 30.
 


What Up Guy said:
I guarantee that you never played organized basketball past 5th grade or were never a scorer. You dont know what its like when the entire team constantly looks at you to do everyone on offense.
Click to expand...

If this is what your argument boils down to you're too dumb to even bother with.

I'm not saying he sucked. He's a very good player, as I've admitted in pretty much every post I've written. Based on his performance this year, particularly his shooting percentage, assist-to-turnover ratio, and dismal performance is against good teams, I think anyone discussing him as a possible player of the year was way off base. MVP? Yeah, I can see that, but not POY.
 

I think James Harden is a bit overrated. Don't get me wrong, he has a huge upswing; but everytime I saw him play he forced things. He was always a turnover waiting to happen.
 


You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom