Morgan being evaluated for a possible concussion.

NW beat writer on the Skor North podcast: "If Minnesota shows up, they'll win." I hope Morgan is OK, but man, people are way too nervous about this game. It's like the Maryland talent truthers the week of that game. NW is horrible. Their QB went 7-13 with 2 INT's against the worst FBS defense maybe in history last week. Let that sink in.

If you're worried about NW's 38ish nationally ranked defense crowding the box to stop our run game while we've got 2 NFL WR's running around, consider that we'll be doing the same to them with our top 25ish defense (that probably includes 3 NFL draft picks) against the QB described above who's throwing to nobody. Dudes, MN is gonna win. Relax.

And we should worry. At this point in the season, stats don't mean a hill of beans to a wounded Wildcat team.

They smell blood, and will want nothing more than to knock off the 10th ranked Gophers.
 

If your backup is the one running the offense, your not trying to run up the score. If the backup is in running the same plays for a quarter, other teams already have 3 quarters of the offense. It’s not like they’re going to pull out a bunch of new plays to give anything else away. Run the same plays you’ve been running. It’s really not that hard.

If you are up big late you are not going to keep running your regular offense, you are going to run the ball and kill the clock. You are not going to be running the regular offense, risking interceptions or incomplete passes just to get your backup some garbage time reps against a team you are dominating. Those reps might make the fans feel better but they aren't going to do much for the QBs.
 

You’d rather Morgan get injured than risk losing the opportunity to play for the Big Ten championship? Horrible

You seem to be working under the assumption that if he plays against Northwestern he is guaranteed to get hurt again. If he is cleared to play by the doctors what makes you so sure his risk would be that much higher if he comes back against Northwestern?
 

Conjecture, I don't have inside info on his surgery, but that was certainly an injury that could end his career.

The broader point was that he suffered a critical injury while playing through a minor injury which I think everyone is starting to realize is far more common than we used to think, and he suffered that injury playing in a game that Alabama would have probably won without him.

I would prefer to see Morgan held out of a non-critical game to give him extra time to recover, especially because concussions can recur.

This is far from rigorous but as an anecdote:
"Of the 12 within-season repeat concussions, 92% occurred within 10 days of the first injury, and 75% occurred within seven days of the first injury."

Bringing him back in one week is right on the line. Makes more sense to just hold him out for a few more days, and let a new player get some reps.

If the rest of this team cannot win against Northwestern without him then they weren't going to the playoffs anyway.
The study you’re quoting - while raising concerns about risk of early repeat concussions in football players doesn’t fully apply to what you’re arguing if I read your argument correctly. It’s a relatively ancient study looking at players from 99-01 prior to the current age in which players undergo a rigorous protocol evaluating them for signs or symptoms of even mild neurological impairment. In the paper you quote many of the players were still symptomatic when returning to play. What it doesn’t answer is “if a player goes through the protocol is there a high risk period once impairment has abated?” In your study we don’t know if the 5% who suffered a second concussion within 7 days were still symptomatic or had signs of impairment when they were put back into action. One would hope there is newer data to determine the question I raised above and that is guiding the decision making.
 
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@Oregon Gopher

I'm aware of the limitations of that study and that's why I labeled it far from rigorous.
I'm going to stand my ground on this. I don't think he should play, cleared or not.

I think he suffered a concussion
- I saw a mild-mannered kid yelling at his coach on the sideline
- He looked confused
- Fleck has said nothing to change my assessment of that situation

I think there is a risk that he gets re-injured
- There is some scientific evidence that points to recurrence risk within 10 days of injury
- It just happened to Tennessee's QB this season, after he was medically cleared to return

I don't need to see him on the field this week
- The Gophers should win this game w/o him
- If they can't, then this team wasn't ready for the prime time anyway
- There are 2 available backups on this team capable of playing at a high-level from what I've seen in practice

I hear all of your arguments. I'm not discounting any of them, but I'm unlikely to change my opinion about this w/o hearing PJ Fleck say that he didn't actually have a concussion.

The reason that I say these things is that I believe coaches are hiding behind medical staffs
- Saban should not have played Tua last week because he couldn't protect himself; Saban hid behind medical staff opinions
- The Vols did the same thing w/ their QB
- I have not heard a coach take responsibility for putting in a player that should not have been playing
- I have heard a few hand that responsibility to their medical staff
- Medical staff can provide an opinion on game readiness, they can tell a coach when a player is available, but the coach needs to step in if he thinks a player is at-risk of re-injury
 
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You seem to be working under the assumption that if he plays against Northwestern he is guaranteed to get hurt again. If he is cleared to play by the doctors what makes you so sure his risk would be that much higher if he comes back against Northwestern?

He doesn't actually think that, he's a moron and a terrible poster who follows me around sniffing my taint and making horseshit, piss-poor efforts to capture me with "gotcha" moments.
 

@Oregon Gopher

I'm aware of the limitations of that study and that's why I labeled it far from rigorous.
I'm going to stand my ground on this. I don't think he should play, cleared or not.

I think he suffered a concussion
- I saw a mild-mannered kid yelling at his coach on the sideline
- He looked confused
- Fleck has said nothing to change my assessment of that situation

I think there is a risk that he gets re-injured
- There is some scientific evidence that points to recurrence risk within 10 days of injury
- It just happened to Tennessee's QB this season, after he was medically cleared to return

I don't need to see him on the field this week
- The Gophers should win this game w/o him
- If they can't, then this team wasn't ready for the prime time anyway
- There are 2 available backups on this team capable of playing at a high-level from what I've seen in practice

I hear all of your arguments. I'm not discounting any of them, but I'm unlikely to change my opinion about this w/o hearing PJ Fleck say that he didn't actually have a concussion.

The reason that I say these things is that I believe coaches are hiding behind medical staffs
- Saban should not have played Tua last week because he couldn't protect himself; Saban hid behind medical staff opinions
- The Vols did the same thing w/ their QB
- I have not heard a coach take responsibility for putting in a player that should not have been playing
- I have heard a few hand that responsibility to their medical staff
- Medical staff can provide an opinion on game readiness, they can tell a coach when a player is available, but the coach needs to step in if he thinks a player is at-risk of re-injury
Once again, Tua's existing minor injury had nothing to do with his new major injury. You're making that up to suit this bizarre agenda that you're pushing. You can just say, "I don't want Morgan to play against Northwestern" and stand behind that rather than make things up and using unrelated fallacious data to support your point.
 

@Oregon Gopher

I'm aware of the limitations of that study and that's why I labeled it far from rigorous.
I'm going to stand my ground on this. I don't think he should play, cleared or not.

I think he suffered a concussion
- I saw a mild-mannered kid yelling at his coach on the sideline
- He looked confused
- Fleck has said nothing to change my assessment of that situation

I think there is a risk that he gets re-injured
- There is some scientific evidence that points to recurrence risk within 10 days of injury
- It just happened to Tennessee's QB this season, after he was medically cleared to return

I don't need to see him on the field this week
- The Gophers should win this game w/o him
- If they can't, then this team wasn't ready for the prime time anyway
- There are 2 available backups on this team capable of playing at a high-level from what I've seen in practice

I hear all of your arguments. I'm not discounting any of them, but I'm unlikely to change my opinion about this w/o hearing PJ Fleck say that he didn't actually have a concussion.


I liked this much of that post, especially the last sentence. Do we even know officially that he had a concussion or all speculation?
 

@Oregon Gopher

I'm aware of the limitations of that study and that's why I labeled it far from rigorous.
I'm going to stand my ground on this. I don't think he should play, cleared or not.

I think he suffered a concussion
- I saw a mild-mannered kid yelling at his coach on the sideline
- He looked confused
- Fleck has said nothing to change my assessment of that situation

I think there is a risk that he gets re-injured
- There is some scientific evidence that points to recurrence risk within 10 days of injury
- It just happened to Tennessee's QB this season, after he was medically cleared to return

I don't need to see him on the field this week
- The Gophers should win this game w/o him
- If they can't, then this team wasn't ready for the prime time anyway
- There are 2 available backups on this team capable of playing at a high-level from what I've seen in practice

I hear all of your arguments. I'm not discounting any of them, but I'm unlikely to change my opinion about this w/o hearing PJ Fleck say that he didn't actually have a concussion.

The reason that I say these things is that I believe coaches are hiding behind medical staffs
- Saban should not have played Tua last week because he couldn't protect himself; Saban hid behind medical staff opinions
- The Vols did the same thing w/ their QB
- I have not heard a coach take responsibility for putting in a player that should not have been playing
- I have heard a few hand that responsibility to their medical staff
- Medical staff can provide an opinion on game readiness, they can tell a coach when a player is available, but the coach needs to step in if he thinks a player is at-risk of re-injury
What I’m gathering from this, and your other postings is that you don’t trust PJ and the medical staff to make the right decision. Is that accurate?
 



I'm kind of excited about the full wildcat offense idea.
 


I had heard all year that UMASS is awful. Like, historically awful. Northwestern not only failed to cover the spread, but actually "only" scored 45 points against UMASS. This is one of UMASS' better defensive efforts of the season. UMASS equaled Northwestern in first downs and Northwestern only had 75 yards passing. My confidence level is somewhat high of victory even if one of the freshman QBs starts this game. I'd say I am not as confident as I was prior to Rutgers, but probably somewhere in the range of my confidence level leading up to the games against Illinois or Maryland.
 

My guess is TM2 doesn’t play. I’m basing that guess on the Vegas line opening at -7, begging for $ to be placed on MN.
 




What I’m gathering from this, and your other postings is that you don’t trust PJ and the medical staff to make the right decision. Is that accurate?

That's not really what I meant. I feel that college coaches generally have been quick to try to pawn this responsibility off on their training staffs, which makes sense, because they're not MDs.

However, I don't think they should get a pass because we've seen more than a few instances where fans are watching games, wondering why a guy is still playing, and then lo-and-behold, they get hurt.

The coach then invariably says that the player was "medically cleared to play."

That gets me a little frustrated. They're watching the game. They see the same things we do, and instead of pulling their player, they let them 'tough it out.' I think that mode of thinking is outdated. This is a development league, and we have far more data about how injuries cascade than we have in the past.

We know that if you're working out with a twisted ankle then you're going to compensate, improperly load other muscles, and put yourself at risk of additional injury. We know that if you tear one ACL then you are something like 100% more likely to tear the other, etc. etc.

If something doesn't feel right to them then they still have a responsibility to act, and I don't think they should get a pass just because the medical staff demonstrated a player could run 50 yards w/o getting a headache.
 

That's not really what I meant. I feel that college coaches generally have been quick to try to pawn this responsibility off on their training staffs, which makes sense, because they're not MDs.

However, I don't think they should get a pass because we've seen more than a few instances where fans are watching games, wondering why a guy is still playing, and then lo-and-behold, they get hurt.

The coach then invariably says that the player was "medically cleared to play."

That gets me a little frustrated. They're watching the game. They see the same things we do, and instead of pulling their player, they let them 'tough it out.' I think that mode of thinking is outdated. This is a development league, and we have far more data about how injuries cascade than we have in the past.

We know that if you're working out with a twisted ankle then you're going to compensate, improperly load other muscles, and put yourself at risk of additional injury. We know that if you tear one ACL then you are something like 100% more likely to tear the other, etc. etc.

If something doesn't feel right to them then they still have a responsibility to act, and I don't think they should get a pass just because the medical staff demonstrated a player could run 50 yards w/o getting a headache.

What are your medical credentials?
 

My guess is TM2 doesn’t play. I’m basing that guess on the Vegas line opening at -7, begging for $ to be placed on MN.
I have talked about that odd line a couple times, too. When Vegas puts out a line like that, they know that major money is going to be coming in on Minnesota, and it apparently did. Usually when they are in doubt they will take the game "off the board" until information clears it up. This is a major factor in the game - whether Morgan plays or not. Fleck DID say he was in concussion protocol and he did say he had a very good Wednesday in the protocol but still nobody knows the status, although the staff and players probably have a pretty good idea right now. If the Gophers blow out Northwestern, I will shrug this off that the oddsmakers really blew that line and cost themselves a lot of money, but if Northwestern covers that spread or wins outright I will be saying, 'I KNEW IT!" Just something interesting to watch tomorrow.....
 

My guess is TM2 doesn’t play. I’m basing that guess on the Vegas line opening at -7, begging for $ to be placed on MN.

Moved to -13.5 fairly quickly. I think some places opened at -10.
 

That's not really what I meant. I feel that college coaches generally have been quick to try to pawn this responsibility off on their training staffs, which makes sense, because they're not MDs.

However, I don't think they should get a pass because we've seen more than a few instances where fans are watching games, wondering why a guy is still playing, and then lo-and-behold, they get hurt.

The coach then invariably says that the player was "medically cleared to play."

That gets me a little frustrated. They're watching the game. They see the same things we do, and instead of pulling their player, they let them 'tough it out.' I think that mode of thinking is outdated. This is a development league, and we have far more data about how injuries cascade than we have in the past.

We know that if you're working out with a twisted ankle then you're going to compensate, improperly load other muscles, and put yourself at risk of additional injury. We know that if you tear one ACL then you are something like 100% more likely to tear the other, etc. etc.

If something doesn't feel right to them then they still have a responsibility to act, and I don't think they should get a pass just because the medical staff demonstrated a player could run 50 yards w/o getting a headache.
Just to be clear, you believe Fleck and staff should ignore the medical professionals...do I have that correct? And you base that on "more than a few instances where fans are watching games, wondering why a guy is still playing"?

You want coaches to base their playing decisions on how you feel about a player while watching your TV?

That seems...sub optimal to me.
 

Just to be clear, you believe Fleck and staff should ignore the medical professionals...do I have that correct? And you base that on "more than a few instances where fans are watching games, wondering why a guy is still playing"?

You want coaches to base their playing decisions on how you feel about a player while watching your TV?

That seems...sub optimal to me.
Don't you mean sub ELITE?
 

Andy Greder with an update in this short audio clip. I’m getting the feeling he’ll probably be cleared to play, but might still sit out.

 

@Oregon Gopher

I'm aware of the limitations of that study and that's why I labeled it far from rigorous.
I'm going to stand my ground on this. I don't think he should play, cleared or not.

I think he suffered a concussion
- I saw a mild-mannered kid yelling at his coach on the sideline
- He looked confused
- Fleck has said nothing to change my assessment of that situation

I think there is a risk that he gets re-injured
- There is some scientific evidence that points to recurrence risk within 10 days of injury
- It just happened to Tennessee's QB this season, after he was medically cleared to return

I don't need to see him on the field this week
- The Gophers should win this game w/o him
- If they can't, then this team wasn't ready for the prime time anyway
- There are 2 available backups on this team capable of playing at a high-level from what I've seen in practice

I hear all of your arguments. I'm not discounting any of them, but I'm unlikely to change my opinion about this w/o hearing PJ Fleck say that he didn't actually have a concussion.

The reason that I say these things is that I believe coaches are hiding behind medical staffs
- Saban should not have played Tua last week because he couldn't protect himself; Saban hid behind medical staff opinions
- The Vols did the same thing w/ their QB
- I have not heard a coach take responsibility for putting in a player that should not have been playing
- I have heard a few hand that responsibility to their medical staff
- Medical staff can provide an opinion on game readiness, they can tell a coach when a player is available, but the coach needs to step in if he thinks a player is at-risk of re-injury

Fully agree. The Wisconsin game is 100x more important. I would not play him this week even if he clears protocol.

With one caveat. If he is cleared and they are terrified by what they see from the freshmen in practice, then he should play.
 

Fully agree. The Wisconsin game is 100x more important. I would not play him this week even if he clears protocol.

With one caveat. If he is cleared and they are terrified by what they see from the freshmen in practice, then he should play.
The only additional caveat would be if he didn't actually suffer anything in the Iowa game, and the trainers were being extraordinarily cautious by taking him out of the game at the end.

But I don't think that's how it works. I think something, maybe not a full concussion, but something more than zero happened at the end of Iowa, otherwise I don't believe they would've taken him out.
 

The only additional caveat would be if he didn't actually suffer anything in the Iowa game, and the trainers were being extraordinarily cautious by taking him out of the game at the end.

But I don't think that's how it works. I think something, maybe not a full concussion, but something more than zero happened at the end of Iowa, otherwise I don't believe they would've taken him out.

There are different grades of concussions. He could have had a grade 1 and then they were just being very cautious with it throughout the week.
 

Fully agree. The Wisconsin game is 100x more important. I would not play him this week even if he clears protocol.

With one caveat. If he is cleared and they are terrified by what they see from the freshmen in practice, then he should play.
Maybe the smart move on paper but how could you justify starting your backup QB when your starter can play in a championship game? If Fleck doesn't treat every game like a 1 game championship his players won't either.
 




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