Monson recruits

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mninny

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Monson left Tubby his recruits and the 2 years of 20 wins were with these kids. Take the overall stats from Monson's recruits and compare those with Tubby's recruits. Monson recruits are better in stats. Trevor has actually been Tubby's most successful player. Tubby brought out the best from Monson's players. and Monson's players bought into his system. Look at Ralph and Colton they should be dominating in the league. Rodney is not the type of player we thought he would be. Not to take anything from Paul Carter(Tubby recruit) he was a good player, but didn't always get a chance to play. He didn't last year give his players the minutes to be effective on the court. With Al's injury, somebody else should be able to step up if motivated. Other teams have lost players and found a way to win.
 

mninny said:
Monson left Tubby his recruits and the 2 years of 20 wins were with these kids. Take the overall stats from Monson's recruits and compare those with Tubby's recruits. Monson recruits are better in stats. Trevor has actually been Tubby's most successful player. Tubby brought out the best from Monson's players. and Monson's players bought into his system. Look at Ralph and Colton they should be dominating in the league. Rodney is not the type of player we thought he would be. Not to take anything from Paul Carter(Tubby recruit) he was a good player, but didn't always get a chance to play. He didn't last year give his players the minutes to be effective on the court. With Al's injury, somebody else should be able to step up if motivated. Other teams have lost players and found a way to win.
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Monson left a 9-22 team. Tubby took (almost) that same team and went 20-14.

The 2009 team was a combination of leftover players and recruits. It went 22-11.

The 2010 team was mostly recruits with some leftover players. It went 21-14.

The 2011 team is mostly recruits and is (currently) 17-11.

Each year is > than 9-22.
 

recruits

Friend of Tubby

Take the points and all the aggressive plays from Monson's recruits, just put Tubby's recruits stats and see how many games they would have won. Monson's recruits stuck with Coach . His own recruits became nomads(leaving every year). This year, take Blake away with his points (we saw the struggle without Nolan) where would the team be?
 

mninny said:
Friend of Tubby

Take the points and all the aggressive plays from Monson's recruits, just put Tubby's recruits stats and see how many games they would have won. Monson's recruits stuck with Coach . His own recruits became nomads(leaving every year). This year, take Blake away with his points (we saw the struggle without Nolan) where would the team be?
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I did. See above.
 



rrjackIII said:
I know you are stickler for stats FOT. I am sure it just slipped your mind but Monson left a team that was 2-5. Molinari left a team that was 9-22.
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Technicality but noted. 2-5 team is 29% W-L record. 9-22 is also 29% record.
 


L
Friend Of Tubby said:
Monson left a 9-22 team. Tubby took (almost) that same team and went 20-14.

The 2009 team was a combination of leftover players and recruits. It went 22-11.

The 2010 team was mostly recruits with some leftover players. It went 21-14.

The 2011 team is mostly recruits and is (currently) 17-11.

Each year is > than 9-22.
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Tubby smith may have more structure and discipline, but he has proven to be a severe disappointment when it comes to recruiting. His players either never showed up or simply left. And most of the ones that did stay have grossly underachieved. Look at colton iverson and Rodney Williams. They are bad players. RSIII isn't much to brag about either. Who knows maybe Monson would succeeded with his players when they matured. We will never know. What we do know is that a team strictly made of Tubby playets, like this years squad, is absolutely terrible.
 

MaroonGopher said:
L

Tubby smith may have more structure and discipline, but he has proven to be a severe disappointment when it comes to recruiting. His players either never showed up or simply left. And most of the ones that did stay have grossly underachieved. Look at colton iverson and Rodney Williams. They are bad players. RSIII isn't much to brag about either. Who knows maybe Monson would succeeded with his players when they matured. We will never know. What we do know is that a team strictly made of Tubby playets, like this years squad, is absolutely terrible.
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Maybe you hadn't noticed. This year's team (almost all Tubby recruits) was 16-4 a month ago.
 



Friend Of Tubby said:
Maybe you hadn't noticed. This year's team (almost all Tubby recruits) was 16-4 a month ago.
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Please.

You cant have it both ways.

First you say they were 16-4 a month ago. In the next breath you say if not for the injury to Nolen, .....


Without Hoff the warrior (Monson recruit) this team is worse than horrible. Westy and more imprtantly Damian were the glue for last years team.

Those are the facts. and those were Monson kids.

Spin it friend.
 

BarnBurner said:
Please.

You cant have it both ways.

First you say they were 16-4 a month ago. In the next breath you say if not for the injury to Nolen, .....

Without Hoff the warrior (Monson recruit) this team is worse than horrible. Westy and more imprtantly Damian were the glue for last years team.

Those are the facts. and those were Monson kids.

Spin it friend.
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Last year's team left 4 or 5 W on the table (Miami FL, Tex A&M, at IU, at NWU, Mich St and Purdue at home) so they must not have been Super Glue.

The team was 16-4 and playing well (Top 15 ranked) until Nolen got hurt again, period.
 

Tubby has recruited very average players with the exception of Trevor. Underperforming on that front given his salary. Nolan is not Kobe Bryant. His limited skill set should have been easy to replace with the proper recruits and/or player retention.
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
Last year's team left 4 or 5 W on the table (Miami FL, Tex A&M, at IU, at NWU, Mich St and Purdue at home) so they must not have been Super Glue.

The team was 16-4 and playing well (Top 15 ranked) until Nolen got hurt again, period.
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Rationalize away friend.

Your man is nearly in year 5.
 



beavergopher said:
Tubby has recruited very average players with the exception of Trevor. Underperforming on that front given his salary. Nolan is not Kobe Bryant. His limited skill set should have been easy to replace with the proper recruits and/or player retention.
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Hogwash.

Royce White, Devoe Joseph, Andre Hollins (to name 3 examples) are very ABOVE average recruits.
 

Friend of Tubby will eat his crow next year when a team made up of entirely Tubby's recruits is fighting for an NIT berth.
 

Most of us saw how the guys who Tubby was handed played with little to no effort (see Thanksgiving tourney or the Clemson game on ESPN) during Monson's last year. Tubby got a lot of those kids to play much harder, and for the most part, I've seen a lot more Gophers on the floor after loose balls than I did during the Monson era. Also, Al Nolen and Blake Hoffarber were Monson recruits, but never played for Dan as their first year was under Tubby.

I do think most everyone would find it shocking that the final two Monson recruits are 2 of the 3 most important players on the team in Tubby's fourth year. That says something about his recruiting/player development/retention.

I certainly think Tubby deserves a mulligan on this season, I just wish there were more encouraging signs that he was going to turn the corner. For example, Beilein had a Sophomore in Darius Morris and a Freshman in Tim Hardaway Jr in the game yesterday who both appear to have brighter futures than any underclassmen on our roster.
 

Friend Of Tubby said:
Hogwash.

Royce White, Devoe Joseph, Andre Hollins (to name 3 examples) are very ABOVE average recruits.
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He is poor judge of character or a bad manager of personalities. In case you hadn't noticed the first two players are now a Cyclone and a Duck. Al's injury would be a footnote to the season if Cobbs and Devoe were still here. RW and DV have proved to be above average at one thing----screwing their teammates over.
 








The only way they go to the NCAA's is win their last two reg season games and get to the B10 tournament finals, and even then I think it is 50/50 at best. Probably need to win the B10 tourney. The way they have been playing I would say that is prayer...
 

It's not recruiting that caused the problems with this team it was retention. You can't start over again every two years with new players. It doesn't work. Not having Nolen, Joseph, and even Cobbs really makes a difference. Tubby took a risk recruiting Corey Joseph at the expense of other pg's and it cost him. Add in the injuries and Devoe Joseph leaving and the result is what we see.

I found the Monson interview very informative. He said that going after four year players that develop, turns into consistancy and success, that is what he would change if he had it to do over again at Minnesota. He said he avoids the Juco players now.
 

jovs said:
It's not recruiting that caused the problems with this team it was retention. You can't start over again every two years with new players. It doesn't work. Not having Nolen, Joseph, and even Cobbs really makes a difference. Tubby took a risk recruiting Corey Joseph at the expense of other pg's and it cost him. Add in the injuries and Devoe Joseph leaving and the result is what we see.

I found the Monson interview very informative. He said that going after four year players that develop, turns into consistancy and success, that is what he would change if he had it to do over again at Minnesota. He said he avoids the Juco players now.
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this it isn't complete accurate. Calipari starts over every year with new players. not saying Minnesota can get that kind of talent but recruiting matters. the problem with the situation here is that the players recruited especially the big men have not developed and in Iverson look to have regressed.

no way in year 4 of this regime with or without the players currently not playing or have left the program should this team have ever loss 4 straight home games. not when it has been the excuse several times on this board that when Minnesota lost on the road it only shows how hard it is to win a B10 road game.

it is hard to win B10 road games except at the Barn.
 

gopherbadgerman said:
The only way they go to the NCAA's is win their last two reg season games and get to the B10 tournament finals, and even then I think it is 50/50 at best. Probably need to win the B10 tourney. The way they have been playing I would say that is prayer...
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I agree. Not that it really matters, but it would be nice to see Al back for the BTT. Fun to see what happens if he can come back and play.
 

beavergopher said:
He is poor judge of character or a bad manager of personalities. In case you hadn't noticed the first two players are now a Cyclone and a Duck. Al's injury would be a footnote to the season if Cobbs and Devoe were still here. RW and DV have proved to be above average at one thing----screwing their teammates over.
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What would your post about Royce be if Tubby hadn't recruited him (citing character issues) and he committed to Kentucky and was their star player? Tubby couldn't even land Royce White? Fire him? He can't land the top talent in the state? Terrible judge of talent?

(To add to your "personalities" argument. Royce White LOVED Tubby. Always said he did. Never once uttered a bad word or even hinted at one. Royce didn't transfer because of Tubby, he transferred because of the UMPD and what he felt was unfair treatment)

What if he didn't land Rodney? A 4-Star recruit out of MN? (Same as Leaur was actually ...) Would you be saying ... another failure at landing a top in-state recruit? He's the same as Monson?

As far as Devoe, it is common knowledge he failed a drug test (two actually) and was possibly doing worse than that. How is that Tubby's fault now?
 

I think the bottom line is that there were higher expectations from Tubby than has been delivered. No matter HOW that has happened, it has...

There are tons of factors, but IMO the bottom line is that if MN was 25-3 right now he would be getting all the credit in the world, so he should get the lions share of the blame as well.

I do agree the biggest issue is not landing players, it is keeping them.
 

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