Money Money Money Big Ten Money - "Staggering" News

[Gophers_4life]

USC, UCLA for sure. GA TECH, UNC, DUKE, likely.

Georgia Tech is a very high academic school that would fit right in the Big Ten, academically.

Right in the heart of a huge market, as well.


That said ... I'm not sure it would add much, purely from a sports finance point of view.

I think of it sort of how I think about Northwestern.


True that GT is public, but only 16-17% of its total revenue comes from state funds (see table 2 of https://www.budgets.gatech.edu/File?F=Hist/19BudgetSummary.pdf )

Not sure how that compares with say the U here, but guessing it is on the low side.

 

[Gophers_4life]

If you add those 6, for the big ten pie to get bigger per school the 6 would need to be worth probably 420 million dollars.
the entire ACC is worth 450
The entire pac 12 is worth 250
Notre dame worth 15 per year (although that’s a really old deal and probably would be worth more now)

Wait a second, you're saying that the ACC's current conference media deal is worth $450M per year?

But then WAGopher's post right about that shows that the Big Ten's current media deal is only worth $440M per year.

 

[Gophers_4life]

If we're set to go up to $1B per year starting in 2023-24 FY, and the SEC is slated to only get $300M per year starting in 2024 for 10 years???

Sorry, something there doesn't make sense.

I see no chance in heck that the SEC is going to sit there and say "aw shucks, guess we're not worth as much as the Big Ten".

 

[highwayman]

You think adding Colorado and Missouri is going to make the big ten tv deal worth 140 million extra?

Denver 19th largest MSA. Kansas City 31st. St. Louis 21st. That's a lot of TVs. Each city's MSA is larger than the entire state of Iowa.

I'm not even counting the rest of either state's population.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Nebraska fan base is already heavily in KC and Denver.

Would love to know what percentage of those metro's cable/sat channel packages already have BTN in the same tier as like ESPN/2.


Would guess a fair amount of Big Ten alumni in STL as well, but less sure the impact there.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Still, the discussion here is the "main" conference TV deal, for the major football, basketball, etc. games that go on channels like ABC, ESPN/2, FOX, FS1 (currently).

So I don't think that includes anything with BTN.


Would be very interesting to basically have a breakdown of what percentages of the total check the Big Ten cuts to each school per year come from which sources.


Guessing the biggest ones have to be:
- conference "main" TV deal
- the CFP TV deal
- bowl games
- March Madness TV deal
- BTN?

 

[Gophers_4life]

(sorry for taking over this thread! I'll shut up after this)

One last thing, and re: NBC.

Obviously they could do for the Big Ten like CBS has done for the SEC. They (NBC) would have their Notre Dame games and also a weekly Big Ten major game (or possible two).


But it's hard to see them being able to do more than that. Why? Because ... where would they put those games??


The ratings of a game can and absolutely will be negatively affected if the game is on some place that only fans/alumni are going to find. Like it or not, some significant portion of major football game ratings come from people who are only "casually" invested in the game.


NBC doesn't have a cable sports channel anymore. There used to be one, but they killed it off due to poor ratings. They do have some sports content on USA Network ... but that is not a place casual people usually look to for sports.


They have the Peacock streaming service. But most people aren't going to pay for that just to watch Big Ten football unless they're fans of a team. So I don't think that's a viable option, for now, either.

 

[MaxyJR1]

 

[2nd Degree Gopher]

The 2020 SEC deal is far less per year than the 2017 B1G deal:

2017 B1G: $2.64 Billion / 6 years = $440 Million
2020 SEC: $3.00 Billion / 10 years = $300 Million

Unless I’m missing something, the B1G has a much better contract and is ready to more than triple the SEC media rights income.

If we're set to go up to $1B per year starting in 2023-24 FY, and the SEC is slated to only get $300M per year starting in 2024 for 10 years???

Sorry, something there doesn't make sense.

I see no chance in heck that the SEC is going to sit there and say "aw shucks, guess we're not worth as much as the Big Ten".

What is missing from this analysis is that, at some point soon, Texas and Oklahoma will join the SEC. The $3B contract was negotiated before that development and will undoubtedly be re-done once we know when the new schools come on board. The Big Ten may still be "top dog" when it comes to pay outs, but that isn't assured and, in any event, the gap will be far smaller than it now appears.

 

[Hates Monikers]

(sorry for taking over this thread! I'll shut up after this)

One last thing, and re: NBC.

Obviously they could do for the Big Ten like CBS has done for the SEC. They (NBC) would have their Notre Dame games and also a weekly Big Ten major game (or possible two).


But it's hard to see them being able to do more than that. Why? Because ... where would they put those games??

Peacock?

No, the Big Ten doesn't necessary want their games on Peacock, where many fans could not find them. But would NBC be willing to pay enough to have a weekly game there to promote the service? The recent Gopher-Notre Dame hockey series was on Peacock, so it wouldn't be totally new to NBC.

I know Fox and ESPN are involved, so I'm just spitballing here. But you ask where they would put the games. If you're NBC and want to get into college football, three games on NBC (two Big Ten games and the Irish) and a game each Saturday on Peacock would be a great way to start.

 

[Some guy]

What is missing from this analysis is that, at some point soon, Texas and Oklahoma will join the SEC. The $3B contract was negotiated before that development and will undoubtedly be re-done once we know when the new schools come on board. The Big Ten may still be "top dog" when it comes to pay outs, but that isn't assured and, in any event, the gap will be far smaller than it now appears.

Literally isn’t going to be redone because in the contract it won’t be redone.
they will get more but the dollars per school won’t increase. Just an increase to cover more schools. Which is why all the national writers are talking about the big ten getting 2 new deals before the next SEC deal

 

[Some guy]

Denver 19th largest MSA. Kansas City 31st. St. Louis 21st. That's a lot of TVs. Each city's MSA is larger than the entire state of Iowa.

I'm not even counting the rest of either state's population.

The entire pac 12 deal is 250 million.
let’s say Colorado is 1/4 of the value of the pac 12 (it isn’t)
But if it was. Missouri would have to be worth 80 million in revenue to Break even on the deal.

If you really think that LOL

 

[Some guy]

Wait a second, you're saying that the ACC's current conference media deal is worth $450M per year?

But then WAGopher's post right about that shows that the Big Ten's current media deal is only worth $440M per year.

About 32 million per school for ACC
Times 14 schools
450 million

Not sure which post you’re talking about for WAGopher

 

[noamfromm]

As talked about many times I don't think the B1G will take on any schools that are not AAU.

Pitt...Yes
Notre Dame...No
Cincy...No
Colorado...Yes
Missu...Yes
ISU...Yes
BC...No
Kentucy...No
Louisville...No

Nebby should have been expelled.

If Notre Dame du Lac wanted to be a full member we would accept them with open arms.

 

[Gophers_4life]

About 32 million per school for ACC
Times 14 schools
450 million

Not sure which post you’re talking about for WAGopher

It's post #26.

Ah, so I see where you went "wrong" with the ACC. That's the total money the conf gives out to each school, from all sources of revenue it takes in (CFP, TV deal, March Madness, etc.). The Big Ten gives each school over $50M per year.

The ACC's TV deal with ESPN is only worth $240M per year.

https://www.on3.com/news/conference-tv-deals-current-status-college-football/

 

[PoockItInfor6]

In the very near future - Hopefully the school will be able to pay players and this works out to a huge advantage for us!

 

[Some guy]

It's post #26.

Ah, so I see where you went "wrong" with the ACC. That's the total money the conf gives out to each school, from all sources of revenue it takes in (CFP, TV deal, March Madness, etc.). The Big Ten gives each school over $50M per year.

The ACC's TV deal with ESPN is only worth $240M per year.

https://www.on3.com/news/conference-tv-deals-current-status-college-football/

Yeah. The number I was referencing is closer to the 450 million though. Because the 50 million per school is soon to be 71 million per school or more.
Any additions to the conference need to bring st least 71 million in additional revenue to increase pie pieces: that’s better studied by looking at total than by looking at just the espn deal

 

[2nd Degree Gopher]

Literally isn’t going to be redone because in the contract it won’t be redone.
they will get more but the dollars per school won’t increase. Just an increase to cover more schools. Which is why all the national writers are talking about the big ten getting 2 new deals before the next SEC deal

I haven't seen the ESPN-SEC contract and I am aware of the fact that such contracts often call for proportionate increase (or decrease) if there are membership changes. If you have specific knowledge of that in this case I'd be interested in seeing it. I would be quite surprised if the contract has a provision that specifically provides that it can't be re-visited if there are membership changes. Again, if you have seen the contract or seen it reported that such a provision exists, I'd be interested in seeing it.

Even if all of that is true, however, ESPN/Disney and the SEC have tied themselves together for decades and have forged a significant partnership. As such, I would anticipate that they will re-visit their agreement once Oklahoma and Texas are in the fold and they have seen what deal the Big Ten gets.

 

[Some guy]

I haven't seen the ESPN-SEC contract and I am aware of the fact that such contracts often call for proportionate increase (or decrease) if there are membership changes. If you have specific knowledge of that in this case I'd be interested in seeing it. I would be quite surprised if the contract has a provision that specifically provides that it can't be re-visited if there are membership changes. Again, if you have seen the contract or seen it reported that such a provision exists, I'd be interested in seeing it.

Even if all of that is true, however, ESPN/Disney and the SEC have tied themselves together for decades and have forged a significant partnership. As such, I would anticipate that they will re-visit their agreement once Oklahoma and Texas are in the fold and they have seen what deal the Big Ten gets.

I am not going to go find the articles but I believe it was a steward mandel article from yesterday

 

[Gophers_4life]

Yeah. The number I was referencing is closer to the 450 million though. Because the 50 million per school is soon to be 71 million per school or more.
Any additions to the conference need to bring st least 71 million in additional revenue to increase pie pieces: that’s better studied by looking at total than by looking at just the espn deal

Cool, but then you were talking about the PAC 12 schools only being $250M. So just as long as it's all consistence, whichever one you go with.

 

[Some guy]

Cool, but then you were talking about the PAC 12 schools only being $250M. So just as long as it's all consistence, whichever one you go with.

Pac 12 payouts are around 400. I must have had old numbers upon looking it up again right now

 

[highwayman]

Literally isn’t going to be redone because in the contract it won’t be redone.
they will get more but the dollars per school won’t increase. Just an increase to cover more schools. Which is why all the national writers are talking about the big ten getting 2 new deals before the next SEC deal

You literally made up that I said this. Fake quote. Nice work.

 

[Some guy]

You literally made up that I said this. Fake quote. Nice work.

Made up that I said what?

I see, somehow I flip flopped who was in quotes. The thing I was responding to was said by #2 gopher but somehow I posted it quoting you saying it. I’m going to blame my phone

 

[nitramnaed]

If Notre Dame du Lac wanted to be a full member we would accept them with open arms.

It's moot anyway as ND is never going to join the B1G for football or basketball.

 

[Gophers_4life]

It's moot anyway as ND is never going to join the B1G for football or basketball.

Yeah, agree. Too much history with the Big East in hoops and far too many alumni who are vehemently opposed to ending independent in football.

It could genuinely be a thing where they would net lose money per year, due to big donors would stop giving if they ever stopped being independent in football. Some folks are that stubborn about it.

As recently as 1990, you had all of these teams who were independent:

(Cincinnati cut off on the bottom)


Now every single one of those other than Army and ND are in football conferences.

 

[Gophers_4life]

Peacock?

No, the Big Ten doesn't necessary want their games on Peacock, where many fans could not find them. But would NBC be willing to pay enough to have a weekly game there to promote the service? The recent Gopher-Notre Dame hockey series was on Peacock, so it wouldn't be totally new to NBC.

I know Fox and ESPN are involved, so I'm just spitballing here. But you ask where they would put the games. If you're NBC and want to get into college football, three games on NBC (two Big Ten games and the Irish) and a game each Saturday on Peacock would be a great way to start.

Yes. That will probably be something of their sales pitch to the Big Ten, is my guess.

But I also don't think ESPN is out of the picture altogether. Could be wrong though. But I do think they will want some slice of the Big Ten pie still.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

Literally isn’t going to be redone because in the contract it won’t be redone.
they will get more but the dollars per school won’t increase. Just an increase to cover more schools. Which is why all the national writers are talking about the big ten getting 2 new deals before the next SEC deal

It's the timing of the deals that makes the B1G upcoming so lucrative. Whether he was thinking that far ahead or not, Delaney ended up putting the B1G in an absolutely perfect position for this upcoming deal by not locking into a deal back then for a major length. The SEC is locked into theirs for a while, which is what makes the B1G deal look so much better

 

[GopherRock]

 

[Goldmember]

What is missing from this analysis is that, at some point soon, Texas and Oklahoma will join the SEC. The $3B contract was negotiated before that development and will undoubtedly be re-done once we know when the new schools come on board.

I’ve heard the guys at ESPN are good guys. Really nice guys too. So as soon as Texas and Oklahoma join the SEC, ESPN is going to just rip-up that contract that everybody signed last year and they’ll offer the SEC something substantially better so that they can keep up.

 

[Some guy]

I’ve heard the guys at ESPN are good guys. Really nice guys too. So as soon as Texas and Oklahoma join the SEC, ESPN is going to just rip-up that contract that everybody signed last year and they’ll offer the SEC something substantially better so that they can keep up.

I don’t understand why people think the SEC would just give away money they already have locked in contractually