MN Daily: ..."under Kill there are little signs of improvement."

[Nate]

I agree with everything but the highlighted item. I don't see us as being particularly bigger or that much more athletic than we've been going back to Mason's years. Saturday's game was another sad reminder of that, at least to me. We do have some kids coming along, but we have some growing to do.

Starting lineups from Week 2 Big Ten season 2013 vs Week 2 Big Ten season 2004. I randomly picked a Mason year, if you want me to compare a different year, I would be happy to.

LT 78 Lauer, Ben 302
LG 52 Epping, Zac 321
C 63 Christenson,Jon 306
RG 64 Bak, Caleb 302
RT 65 Campion, Josh 326

311 average


LT 74 Melander, Rian 295
LG 68 Setterstrom, M. 295
C 61 Eslinger, Greg 285
RG 66 Harston, B. 300
RT 78 Ainslie, Joe 300

295 Average

 

[OddStack]

Struggled w/ UNLV, NMSU, West Ill., SJSU. That's not progress. Yes they won but it was a battle. Then lay a rotten egg against Iowa and Mich.
The first Kill game we almost beat USC in CA. From the Texas Tech game to today I think we have regressed.

Then by your definition of BATTLE and STRUGGLE, we were a battle and struggle for Michigan. We beat UNLV by 28 and lost to Michigan by 29 not to mention both games close until at the half.

 

[Sparlimb]

It's hard to argue with people who think things need to happen immediately. If it's so bad and there isn't any progress please tell me how you recommend the pace of progress be improved.

What's immediately? We are in year 3. I think Kill deserves year 4, but I think that's it. Either you start competing and winning a few big ten games or you don't. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask any coach to come in and get 4 Big Ten wins in any of 4 years. If that's too much for the coach, then he's the wrong guy for the job. I think the folks who are frustrated, and I'm in that group, are frustrated because 3 years in we don't appear anywhere near ready to compete with any Big Ten Teams. Whoever said it earlier was right on, this team is in MAJOR need of a signature win. 6 games to win 2 more. A bowl game this year assures year 4...

 

[OddStack]

Tim Brewster first 3 years:

14-24 (.368 winning %) overall record
6-18 (.250 winning %) B10 record
9 20+ point blowout losses

Jerry Kill first 3 years:

13-18 (.419 winning %) overall record
4-14 (.222 winning %) B10 record
9 20+ point blowout losses

Don't forget that Kill schedules absolute cupcakes non conference opponents whereas with Brewster we actually faced some legitimate ones. The results are eerily similar and slightly favor Brew up to this point.

Brewster 18 B1G games in 4-14---same as Kill

Favor Brewster....premature my friend.

 

[GophersInIowa]

Then by your definition of BATTLE and STRUGGLE, we were a battle and struggle for Michigan. We beat UNLV by 28 and lost to Michigan by 29 not to mention both games close until at the half.

That 1 point makes a huge difference.

 

[beavergopher]

What's immediately? We are in year 3. I think Kill deserves year 4, but I think that's it. Either you start competing and winning a few big ten games or you don't. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask any coach to come in and get 4 Big Ten wins in any of 4 years. If that's too much for the coach, then he's the wrong guy for the job. I think the folks who are frustrated, and I'm in that group, are frustrated because 3 years in we don't appear anywhere near ready to compete with any Big Ten Teams. Whoever said it earlier was right on, this team is in MAJOR need of a signature win. 6 games to win 2 more. A bowl game this year assures year 4...

You nailed it .

 

[littlebigboy]

Just look how many Srs. are starting and how many Fr. & Sophs. That means 1 to 2 yrs. for significant improvement in the record.

 

[50PoundHead]

Starting lineups from Week 2 Big Ten season 2013 vs Week 2 Big Ten season 2004. I randomly picked a Mason year, if you want me to compare a different year, I would be happy to.

LT 78 Lauer, Ben 302
LG 52 Epping, Zac 321
C 63 Christenson,Jon 306
RG 64 Bak, Caleb 302
RT 65 Campion, Josh 326

311 average


LT 74 Melander, Rian 295
LG 68 Setterstrom, M. 295
C 61 Eslinger, Greg 285
RG 66 Harston, B. 300
RT 78 Ainslie, Joe 300

295 Average

That would be all well and good if Mason's running offense was anything like Kill's. Mason's zone-blocking scheme concentrated on smaller, quicker lineman and one-cut running backs. Kill's offense is "knock them over."

 

[Nate]

I realize that, but then why would you say we have gotten bigger dating back to the Mason years? I don't think anyone would argue the athletic aspect, how could anyone compete in that regard to Eslinger

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

Just look how many Srs. are starting and how many Fr. & Sophs. That means 1 to 2 yrs. for significant improvement in the record.

People seem to focus on the age a lot, especially when it comes to the offensive line. Didn't Michigan start three underclassmen (freshman/sophomores) on their O-line against us?

 

[bottlebass]

What's immediately? We are in year 3. I think Kill deserves year 4, but I think that's it. Either you start competing and winning a few big ten games or you don't. I don't think it's unreasonable to ask any coach to come in and get 4 Big Ten wins in any of 4 years. If that's too much for the coach, then he's the wrong guy for the job. I think the folks who are frustrated, and I'm in that group, are frustrated because 3 years in we don't appear anywhere near ready to compete with any Big Ten Teams. Whoever said it earlier was right on, this team is in MAJOR need of a signature win. 6 games to win 2 more. A bowl game this year assures year 4...

I actually thought we competed well in the Michigan game for the first half. Michigan only scored off our turnover and the bad sequence before half when our special teams failed to catch the punt so we had to punt from our endzone... Take away just 1 of those 2 bad sequences for the gophs and we could have been tied or even ahead going into half. I mean if we fair catch that punt, maybe we don't have the conservative play calling and we get a field goal before half and go in up 10-7??? I know that may sound crazy to some of you but I thought for that first half it looked like we could compete with Michigan and I thought we had a decent chance of stealing one if we could get some turnovers in the 2nd half. It obviously didn't go that way, but I would venture to say it looked like we were competing with Michigan for a half which would be an improvement.

I was hoping for more out of Kill's 3rd year, but I guess I'm starting to see some improvements and realizing just how far this team was down the drain before Kill and his staff stepped in. Its hard to restore a program that hasn't really been relevant in 40 years with just 3 years of a good staff. Once Kill has seniors and juniors he recruited playing both sides of the ball I think we will see the improvement. The last 2 games have been brutal (because i was hoping for a more drastic improvement) but I still feel optimism for this team and have the feeling that brighter days are coming for the first time in a long time...

 

[Big Ten Mind]

Tim Brewster first 3 years:

14-24 (.368 winning %) overall record
6-18 (.250 winning %) B10 record
9 20+ point blowout losses

Jerry Kill first 3 years:

13-18 (.419 winning %) overall record
4-14 (.222 winning %) B10 record
9 20+ point blowout losses

Don't forget that Kill schedules absolute cupcakes non conference opponents whereas with Brewster we actually faced some legitimate ones. The results are eerily similar and slightly favor Brew up to this point.

Yes Brew was a strange guy and a bit of a joke however vs. the Gophers most hated rival (WI) he was very competitive three times: 41-34, 35-32 and 31-28 losses...I'm not in to moral victories but those were respectable showings

 

[Deleted_User]

they were closer than the final score indicates.

Hmmmm? Debatable view.

 

[GopherinPhilly]

People seem to focus on the age a lot, especially when it comes to the offensive line. Didn't Michigan start three underclassmen (freshman/sophomores) on their O-line against us?

Yes, two 5th year senior tackles (one of which is a returning all american), two R-Shirt SO and a R-Shirt Fr. Which is why MI has struggled offensively giving up sacks and not running well.

We did a decent job in the first half, but had no answer when MI went to 6 offensive linemen and moved Lewan to TE on power running sets. They just demolished us over and over.

In the end, it was MI's mobile QB that we couldn't seem to tackle, power running & a very good run defense that doomed the Gophs.

 

[UpnorthGo4]

Any comparison between Kill and Brewster midway through year 3 is a worthless exercise. When Brewster started, he inheritred a team that was typically winning 6-7 games per year. Kill inherited a team that lost to South Dakota and would have gone 1-11 if Brewster was allowed to finish out the year.

Brewster inherited a team with three straight pathetic Mason recruiting classes (2004, 2005, and 2006) and one recruiting class (2007) that was put together in three weeks, a redshirt freshman QB who couldn't hit open receivers no matter how close they were to him, a defensive backfield in which three true freshman started a larger number of the games, and an offensive line that would have been Mason's worst at Minnesota by far.

 

[RodentRampage]

"This is a results-based business, and under Kill there are little signs of improvement"

Now that seems more accurate.

+1 There is a difference between "there are little signs of improvement" and "there is little sign of improvement". The former observes multiple areas of improvement, if not major signs of improvement. The latter denies that there is any significant improvement.

 

[Iceland12]

Brewster inherited a team with three straight pathetic Mason recruiting classes, a redshirt freshman QB who couldn't hit open receivers no matter how close they were to him, a defensive backfield in which three true freshman started at least half the games or more, and an offensive line that would have been Mason's worst at Minnesota by far.

One of the things that pissed people off about Mason was during the end of the his last year was that he kept telling people that in 2007 he was looking "at a major rebuilding year." People who wanted him gone screamed about it. "After 10 years we're looking at a major rebuilding year?!!??!"

Then Brewster came in had a horrible year and the Masonites kept saying that Glen "would have won at least 4 games", because they couldn't come out and say that Glen was lying could they?

Now, after Brewster's tenure is gone, Kill/Mason supporters keep saying that Mason gave Brewster WAY more talent than Kill got.

Most likely? - Mason was right, most of his talent left and he hadn't recruited well those last couple of years.

- Brewster was a "Dead man walking" his last year and a half and he couldn't bring anybody in then either.

- Kill has yet to sign anybody who's been a much of a contributor, but it's early.

 

[RodentRampage]

Brewster inherited a team with three straight pathetic Mason recruiting classes (2004, 2005, and 2006) and one recruiting class (2007) that was put together in three weeks , a redshirt freshman QB who couldn't hit open receivers no matter how close they were to him, a defensive backfield in which three true freshman started a larger number of the games, and an offensive line that would have been Mason's worst at Minnesota by far.

It's funny that the quarterback who couldn't hit receivers has is tied for the Gophers second highest completion percentage with Cory Sauter at 57.0%, just behind Mark Carlson's 57.2%.

 

[Iceland12]

It's funny that the quarterback who couldn't hit receivers has is tied for the Gophers second highest completion percentage with Cory Sauter at 57.0%, just behind Mark Carlson's 57.2%.

Always thought that Weber was quite good when Brewster ran that Pass-heavy Offense. Even in the 2nd Half of his first season, when the Gophers were OUT of healthy Running Backs, Weber put-up some numbers. That said, his Stats look pretty good for all 4 of his years. Only in 2009, when Brewster inexplicably decided to make the Pass an "only after everything else fails" did his numbers falter, but conversely, he didn't take the beating he took in his first two years.

Overall though, even if he didn't run as much the last two seasons, he took so many damn hits over his career it's amazing that he was a good as he was. What wasn't amazing is the toll that it took on him and his accuracy that last season. Even then when Horton FINALLY turned the Passing Game loose again those last two games he put some numbers back on the board didn't he?

 

[UpnorthGo4]

Gopher's starting line-up against Michigan in 2007

Pos ## Offense

WR 1 Wheelwright, E. - Senior
WR 7 Decker, Eric - Sophomore
LT 64 Shidell, Steve - Senior
LG 52 Tow-Arnett,Jeff - Sophomore
C 77 Brinkhaus, Tony - Senior
LG 53 Burris, D.J. - RS Freshman
RT 76 Alford, Dominic - RS Freshman
WR 81 Spry, Ralph - True Freshman
WR 6 Herndon, Tray - True Freshman
QB 8 Weber, Adam - RS Freshman
RB 22 Bennett, Duane - True Freshman

Pos ## Defense

LE Henderson, Ray - Sophomore
LT Allen, Neel - Senior
RT Meisel, Todd - Senior
RE Campbell, Lee - Sophomore
SLB Davis, Steve - Junior
MLB Hightower, Deon - Junior
WLB Mannion, Kevin - Junior
CB Theret, Kyle - True Freshman
FS Thomas, Curtis - True Freshman
SS Barber, Dom - Senior
CB Collado, Ryan - True Freshman