MN Daily: Jeff Jones says Kill's health impacts him; Ragnow says it does not

The team I am worried about is Wisconsin especially if we can't compete with them on 11/23. They have offered both Jones & Ragnow.

They both want to play for a solid program and one that pounds the rock. Who does that better than Becky? Plus they run 69% of the time versus 61% for the Gophers and their three main RB's average 7.5yds a pop versus our three at 5.0.

Someone should tell Jones about Wisconsin RB's impeccable success rate in the NFL (ha). Montee Ball, the guy who was going to break the trend, is averaging 3.2 yards per carry on a team whose opponents never even expect a run. Impressive. I'm more worried about FSU for Ragnow. Keep winning and I think we get him though.
 

They both want to play for a solid program and one that pounds the rock. Who does that better than Becky? Plus they run 69% of the time versus 61% for the Gophers and their three main RB's average 7.5yds a pop versus our three at 5.0.

In 2012, Wisconsin ran 68.6% of the time. This year, it's 63.1% (344/545).

Minnesota is running 71.9% of the time (420/584).
 

I'm curious to see if Andersen changes the UW offense if Gordon opts for the NFL. I think he ran a heavy read-option offense at Utah State.
 

You're not understanding the issues or what is happening behind the scenes.

Crazy to think a kid is open and honest when he says he doesn't know if he can believe what Kill says (about his health) and that Kill's health is a big consideration re: Minnesota... yet you still say "maybe" it's an issue.

The future is in limbo and many people don't like uncertainty. I think the sooner Minnesota makes the right decision, the better. They finally took a temporary stand, but when will a difficult decision come?

What is happening behind the scenes since you seem to be the expert? My statement was that the position of one recruit does not make something a program changing problem. If it were, I'd think we would hear more recruits express concern. When that happens, I'll change my position.
 

You're not understanding the issues or what is happening behind the scenes.

Crazy to think a kid is open and honest when he says he doesn't know if he can believe what Kill says (about his health) and that Kill's health is a big consideration re: Minnesota... yet you still say "maybe" it's an issue.

The future is in limbo and many people don't like uncertainty. I think the sooner Minnesota makes the right decision, the better. They finally took a temporary stand, but when will a difficult decision come?

It would seem by this you believe the "right decison" is that the univeristy should either ask Kill to resign or fire him?
 


Getting buried in the attacking and spinning taking place in this thread, is the simple fact that there is now concrete proof of what many have speculated, that Kill's epilepsy does have a potential negative impact on recruiting. I never actually expected a recruit to come out and say it but low and behold Jones has done just that.

We can go back and forth on the level of impact but those that have tried to claim it is a non-issue may need to at least admit they may have been wrong. On a side note it is interesting to see Jones stock drop drastically in the eyes of a lot of posters here going from a potential stud to a roll player who we really didn't need anyway. Gotta love recruiting.
 

Getting buried in the attacking and spinning taking place in this thread, is the simple fact that there is now concrete proof of what many have speculated, that Kill's epilepsy does have a potential negative impact on recruiting. I never actually expected a recruit to come out and say it but low and behold Jones has done just that.

We can go back and forth on the level of impact but those that have tried to claim it is a non-issue may need to at least admit they may have been wrong. On a side note it is interesting to see Jones stock drop drastically in the eyes of a lot of posters here going from a potential stud to a roll player who we really didn't need anyway. Gotta love recruiting.

If he signs with us, I hope he is a roll player.
 

Getting buried in the attacking and spinning taking place in this thread, is the simple fact that there is now concrete proof of what many have speculated, that Kill's epilepsy does have a potential negative impact on recruiting. I never actually expected a recruit to come out and say it but low and behold Jones has done just that.

We can go back and forth on the level of impact but those that have tried to claim it is a non-issue may need to at least admit they may have been wrong. On a side note it is interesting to see Jones stock drop drastically in the eyes of a lot of posters here going from a potential stud to a roll player who we really didn't need anyway. Gotta love recruiting.

I don't think it's ever been speculation. Recruiting is absolutely cut-throat and I've always been quite certain that Kill's medical issues have been mentioned to possible recruits.

I hope we get both these guys, but it's likely going to be a battle.
 

Who are these people who claimed Kill's epilepsy was a <u>non-issue</u>? What we did have was people running around like their hair was on fire about the disaster that Kill's epilepsy was. At 7-2, it's clear that his epilepsy is not nearly as big an issue as some thought.
 



I don't think it's ever been speculation. Recruiting is absolutely cut-throat and I've always been quite certain that Kill's medical issues have been mentioned to possible recruits.

I hope we get both these guys, but it's likely going to be a battle.

But this is more than just a coach using it against us. This is the #1 recruit in the state saying it is a potential issue for him in deciding whether or not to go to Minnesota. The other coaches using it was a given, never expected a recruit to admit to it being an issue for him.
 

Who are these people who claimed Kill's epilepsy was a <u>non-issue</u>? What we did have was people running around like their hair was on fire about the disaster that Kill's epilepsy was. At 7-2, it's clear that his epilepsy is not nearly as big an issue as some thought.

I think these are different issues. The 7-2 proves that the coaching staff has been able to hold it together while Kill has been sidelined and forced into a more limited role (used the right version that time). The comments from Jones reflect more to the future and bringing in top talent. Granted this is just one case but when it involves the top guy in the state it takes on a bit more significance.
 

What is happening behind the scenes since you seem to be the expert? My statement was that the position of one recruit does not make something a program changing problem. If it were, I'd think we would hear more recruits express concern. When that happens, I'll change my position.

While I'm inclined to agree with you; Real or imagined, there is something to his point. I think it is at least worth addressing in order to properly respond. Take the following:

The future is in limbo and many people don't like uncertainty

The future is in limbo - it is obviously in limbo everywhere. Saban (or insert any coach) could die tomorrow from, well, anything. Yet we assign the larger risk to Kill through our own ignorance of his condition. The point is people wrongly always project current conditions into the next four years, especially immature children, instructed by men who's well paying jobs are aided by strategically misinforming said young minds about rival coaches.

Sure is a lot easier to construct a false narrative for Missouri or Alabama than it is for MN right now.

Heck, think of how cyclical teams are; Take Alabama; team gets good, wins championships, recruits flow. However, recruits came after sustained success, not before. Given the last team to Three Peat was 80 years ago, These current recruits are unlikely going to be part of the AL trend. Problem is, try to tell the J.C .Hassenhauers of the world that. Look for the rising star not the current star.

There is some risk with Kill's illness. However, it can be a good thing too. It all depends how the issue is framed by the coaches and university.

The U seams to be doing well with it. I think Souhan, as dumb as he was, was a blessing. His ignorant diatribe, unleashed a flow of positive emotion and press. We couldn't buy that kind of emotionally charged advertising. MN was being regulary mentioned in ESPN and national press. Given emotions are the best keys to creating long term memories having an outpouring of such attached to the school's name is huge. Kids won't care about the context, they'll positively remember Minnesota. Especially given were being mentioned tangentially elsewhere in National champion talk (Louisville for bball and 3peat stuff in Football).

All in all, I think your point beats your arch nemesis's, but his does merit consideration, because that's how kids are liable to think.
 

While I'm inclined to agree with you; Real or imagined, there is something to his point. I think it is at least worth addressing in order to properly respond. Take the following:



The future is in limbo - it is obviously in limbo everywhere. Saban (or insert any coach) could die tomorrow from, well, anything. Yet we assign the larger risk to Kill through our own ignorance of his condition. The point is people wrongly always project current conditions into the next four years, especially immature children, instructed by men who's well paying jobs are aided by strategically misinforming said young minds about rival coaches.

Sure is a lot easier to construct a false narrative for Missouri or Alabama than it is for MN right now.

Heck, think of how cyclical teams are; Take Alabama; team gets good, wins championships, recruits flow. However, recruits came after sustained success, not before. Given the last team to Three Peat was 80 years ago, These current recruits are unlikely going to be part of the AL trend. Problem is, try to tell the J.C .Hassenhauers of the world that. Look for the rising star not the current star.

There is some risk with Kill's illness. However, it can be a good thing too. It all depends how the issue is framed by the coaches and university.

The U seams to be doing well with it. I think Souhan, as dumb as he was, was a blessing. His ignorant diatribe, unleashed a flow of positive emotion and press. We couldn't buy that kind of emotionally charged advertising. MN was being regulary mentioned in ESPN and national press. Given emotions are the best keys to creating long term memories having an outpouring of such attached to the school's name is huge. Kids won't care about the context, they'll positively remember Minnesota. Especially given were being mentioned tangentially elsewhere in National champion talk (Louisville for bball and 3peat stuff in Football).

All in all, I think your point beats your arch nemesis's, but his does merit consideration, because that's how kids are liable to think.

Most kids I have met are smarter than GW.
 



Who are these people who claimed Kill's epilepsy was a <u>non-issue</u>? What we did have was people running around like their hair was on fire about the disaster that Kill's epilepsy was. At 7-2, it's clear that his epilepsy is not nearly as big an issue as some thought.

Look back at threads in the past. Plenty of people claimed Kill's health issues were a non-issue.

The 3-0 record with Kill's head coaching duties removed may actually indicate to some that his health issues are more of an issue than they previously thought.

It would seem by this you believe the "right decison" is that the univeristy should either ask Kill to resign or fire him?

No, I've always said a reasonable path to consider is reassigning him as a "special assistant" or some made up position. This helps to ease the concerns of those worried about "starting over" as you keep the staff in the program, with Claeys elevated.

The issues are many, but some perspectives:
- Kill's seizures date back more than 20 years. He's seen many doctors. Even if he said, "hey guys, I'm back 100%" this afternoon it's crazy to think it's unlikely he'll continue to have issues.
- I think it's likely the U told him "hey, you've been a bad patient - we're taking away your HC duties.. you need to invest in your health"... which is great. But I don't know that you can change the man. He's a tough son of a gun and for anyone - but especially a guy like Kill - changing your ways is difficult. The "more sleep", "walks around the neighborhood", "take things off his plate" talk is nice, but not sure it's much more than lip service.
- I also believe Kill will be freaked if he returns to the sidelines. Imagine if he was out there Saturday and PSU beats Minnesota and there's another trip to the hospital. More "supporters" would flip on him. Stress is bad for Jerry Kill but how are you going to alleviate it with him as head coach? Totally a crappy position for him to be in and it's not fair - but it's reality.

I like the idea of helping the guy be involved with the program while also putting his health first. To me, that means no more head coaching. Until you make that call I think you're just kicking the can down the road.

Thoughts of Kill coming back as head coach, staying healthy for the next decade and enjoys much success with Minnesota are wonderful thoughts. Just tough for me to envision. And nearly impossible to erase worries of recruits and others unless he gets through a couple of years without missing time during the season... but it's been at least a decade since that's happened.
 

- Kill's seizures date back more than 20 years. He's seen many doctors. Even if he said, "hey guys, I'm back 100%" this afternoon it's crazy to think it's unlikely he'll continue to have issues.

Before I make my point: let me be clear that I think Kill should remain as Head Coach of the program unless the results on the field indicate otherwise. He should not be let go/resign because of his seizures.

With that out of the way, the above quote is similar to a thought I have had. One of the lines we hear trumpeted frequently by the University, Kill supporters, etc.. is how treatable epilepsy is and how 70% (?) of epileptics eventually get it under control with the right medications, etc.. The unspoken suggestion here is that we should just be patient and it will most likely work its way out.

...well, the analytic in me looks at those statistics in an entirely different light. If 70% of epileptics get their seizures under control, and after 20 years and undoubtedly top-notch medical care Jerry Kill has not gotten his seizures under control, it seems to me pretty likely that he is, unfortunately, in the 30% of hard cases who never will.
 

Jones

I've had a feeling for awhile that Jones is going to Missouri.

The body language of every comment Jones has made to date suggests strongly to me that he is gone. He's already made up his mind to go somewhere else.
 

Having the university relieve him of his coaching duties and reassigning Kill as a "special assistant" seems just like a nice way of saying "resign or be fired" as the head coach.
 

Look back at threads in the past. Plenty of people claimed Kill's health issues were a non-issue.

No, they said that his seizures weren't as big an issue as you thought they were.

The 3-0 record with Kill's head coaching duties removed may actually indicate to some that his health issues are more of an issue than they previously thought.

You realize that doesn't make a bit of sense, don't you?
 

With that out of the way, the above quote is similar to a thought I have had. One of the lines we hear trumpeted frequently by the University, Kill supporters, etc.. is how treatable epilepsy is and how 70% (?) of epileptics eventually get it under control with the right medications, etc.. The unspoken suggestion here is that we should just be patient and it will most likely work its way out.

...well, the analytic in me looks at those statistics in an entirely different light. If 70% of epileptics get their seizures under control, and after 20 years and undoubtedly top-notch medical care Jerry Kill has not gotten his seizures under control, it seems to me pretty likely that he is, unfortunately, in the 30% of hard cases who never will.

Yep. It's one of my frustrations with the U. Many colleges do it, but the amount of b.s. spouted out is silly. Fortunately for universities, the masses will gobble up what "the leaders" of the schools say regardless of how ridiculous it is.

One reason to hold onto hope for Kill is that a big reason for his continuing issues might be that he's been a really bad patient. (But again... a good treatment is stripping him of his HC duties.)

scools12 said:
Having the university relieve him of his coaching duties and reassigning Kill as a "special assistant" seems just like a nice way of saying "resign or be fired" as the head coach.

Yes, "as the head coach" - most definitely.
 

That Kill's health issues are a recruiting issue has been obvious for years, but it's a bigger issue today than ever before for some (although there will continue to be those who insist it's a non-issue). If I'm Jerry I am hesitant to step on the sidelines again this season for fear of what another game day episode does for my future.

Rough situation. I do think if you create a 'special assistant' type position for Kill and give the keys to Claeys you can ride the current momentum a bit... otherwise the issue is at the forefront probably more than ever before.

The comments from Jones are reasonable and very understandable.

hey....it's CAPTAIN HINDSIGHT everybody. a.k.a. as GOPHERwarrior.

sp_1411_clip05.jpg
 


How could this be true!? I thought Kill's health wouldnt impact recruiting according to the experts on GH. This is case #1 that his health does impact recruiting and you can bet there are others where the recruit just doesnt say it.

Some interesting comments from Jones and Ragnow, this is the first time I've seen a recruit come out and say that Kill's health impacts him.
Jones said Kill’s battle with epilepsy affects his recruitment tremendously.
 

Really tough to read that and see either committing.
Deron Thompson and one of the other backs will probably commit if Jones takes off.
Too bad if that happens, he could be a star here. In the SEC he's probably a special teamer.
Ragnow I think at least has to look at our O and see how fun that it could be for an Olineman to play in that style.

This staff has made enough shrewd recruiting moves to believe they will have a good solid plan in place should we miss out on these guys.
They wipe their rears with recruiting services and star rankings.

Nevertheless let's hope Jones and Ragnow see how much success they could both have here and stay home to help Kill and Co elevate the U to a top 10 team.

+1
 

How could this be true!? I thought Kill's health wouldnt impact recruiting according to the experts on GH. This is case #1 that his health does impact recruiting and you can bet there are others where the recruit just doesnt say it.

Yep. This is how I always saw the situation.
 

No, they said that his seizures weren't as big an issue as you thought they were.

I seem to remember more than a few posters claiming it wasn't an issue at all. I put those people on one end of the spectrum. On the opposite end were the people who thought recruiting is dead because of Kill's seizures. Most logical thinkers were in the middle somewhere.
 

"This staff has made enough shrewd recruiting moves to believe they will have a good solid plan in place should we miss out on these guys.
They wipe their rears with recruiting services and star rankings".


Pretty funny line, but no they don't and they've been very open about it. All three guys, Kill, Claeys, and Limegrover, when asked, have responding by saying that sure, they'd be very happy if more 4 and 5 star guys gave them a chance and ended-up here but they don't. So they take the guys they can get who fit the system.
 

Yep. It's one of my frustrations with the U. Many colleges do it, but the amount of b.s. spouted out is silly. Fortunately for universities, the masses will gobble up what "the leaders" of the schools say regardless of how ridiculous it is.

One reason to hold onto hope for Kill is that a big reason for his continuing issues might be that he's been a really bad patient. (But again... a good treatment is stripping him of his HC duties.)

First of all, what exactly is all this b.s. that you say they throw out? You like to say things as fact without actually telling us anything.

Is it the 70% thing? What about the first 17 years of the 20 in which it appeared he did have it under control? Maybe the medication he was taking then did have it under control to an extent. Maybe something has changed since then and it is taking some time to figure it all out.

I could absolutely be wrong with all of this. So could you. That's the point so many have been trying to make. You're assuming so much, and that is why so many disagree with you.

I did find your "the masses will gobble up what "the leaders" of the schools say regardless of how ridiculous it is" comment kinda ironic. That's how many feel about the media. The average person will believe anything they say in many situations.
 

I believe Ragnow tweeted earlier that Coach Kill's epilepsy didn't affect his interest in the U. Perhaps Jones' statement saying Coach Kill's health does affect his interest coincides with his perceived weakening bond to MN and increased interest in Missouri. Much easier for the instate kid to say the coach's health affected his condition rather than say I don't want to go to the U, I want to go to Missouri because I want to play for a top ten team. Less chance of facing a backlash if you can blame it on something.
 


I think we will be just fine without Jeff and Ragnow. Would I like to have them? YES. But, we have so many 2* recruits on this team who are presumably over achieving that I fully trust Kill and staff to find players that WANT to be here and can perform ON and OFF of the field.

If home state kids like Jeff and Frank cannot see where this program has risen too and where it's headed with this STAFF than so be it. If they don't want to play for their home state school in front of their friends and family then so be it. I'll take kids like Derrick Wells or Theiren Cockran (both 2* recruits) with a chip on their shoulder that want to be here any day of the year. In time (as soon as next year), with the Minnesota kids, I really hope that it becomes the cool thing to play for the U!
 

I believe Ragnow tweeted earlier that Coach Kill's epilepsy didn't affect his interest in the U. Perhaps Jones' statement saying Coach Kill's health does affect his interest coincides with his perceived weakening bond to MN and increased interest in Missouri. Much easier for the instate kid to say the coach's health affected his condition rather than say I don't want to go to the U, I want to go to Missouri because I want to play for a top ten team. Less chance of facing a backlash if you can blame it on something.

Been thinking the same thing. The thing is...we will never truly KNOW. Could a kid not want to play at MN and be uncomfortable with Coach, sure. Probably weren't going to get that kid anyway, as I am sure they factor many things into their decision.
 




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