Minus McNeal are we done?

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oleboy41

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We now have 4 scholarship guards/wings to run a 3 guard offense. Love Kendall Shell but we have no depth now. The only hope is if Buggs can play big minutes at the 3 and who knows how that will work. This is why having 2 open scholarships is pretty problematic
 

It's certainly a new unexpected challenge - but adversity is part of the game. Not done by any means.
 

Define done.

Will we win another game? Yes.

Will we go undefeated? No.
 

I think making the tournament now would be quite the achievement.
 

There are 120 minutes in a game to fill at the 1,2,3 positions. I think Mathieu, Hollins, Mason, and Morris are capable enough and good enough to be counted on to play 30 m/g each without being overused. Buggs, Martin, and King should be capable of filling in at the 3-spot if there is foul trouble. Now if Mathieu, Hollins, Mason, or Morris gets injured, then we may be in trouble. Until then, I think we'll be just fine.
 


I think we can all agree that losing a guy that averages 1.8 points and 1.3 rebounds in 10.8 minutes while shooting 47.6 from the free throw line would be the death knell for any program.
 

It may just alter how much of the game they press for. It re-emphasizes the need to NOT foul as much and that's a good fundamental this team needs anyway. Other than games where guards get in foul trouble, I just don't see this one as a season changer at all.
 

It hurts that's for sure, B1G is going to be tough, Wisconsin, Mich St, Mich, Ohio St, and Maryland look like they are going to be better than the Gophs, Iowa, Nebraska, and Illinois are pretty even, not much room for error, you fall to the bottom of that list and are probably out of the NCAA tournament.
 

bga1 said:
It may just alter how much of the game they press for. It re-emphasizes the need to NOT foul as much and that's a good fundamental this team needs anyway. Other than games where guards get in foul trouble, I just don't see this one as a season changer at all.
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This is exactly it. Pitino and the boys may need to adapt a bit to avoid fouls aka playing a more relaxed defense. We still have one of the better back courts in the Big Ten. It isn't like we are losing a lot in terms of points, rebounds, assists, etc. McNeil was an above average defender who ate up some minutes.
 



afurry91 said:
I think making the tournament now would be quite the achievement.
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I hope you realize McNeil wasn't THAT good, right?? Between Buggs and Mason getting extra minutes, I believe fans will come to realize that McNeil is replaceable. You may not agree with it now, but just give it a handful games and then you can respond back. We are really just losing depth. McNeil wasn't getting it done on the court through the first 4 games.
 

GameDay said:
I hope you realize McNeil wasn't THAT good, right?? Between Buggs and Mason getting extra minutes, I believe fans will come to realize that McNeil is replaceable. You may not agree with it now, but just give it sometime and then you can respond back.
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I don't necessarily think he was that good. In fact, I wasn't really a fan of him, but I also think we needed his minutes. He is a decent defender.

I don't think we'll have a huge drop off, but I think we might be closer to the bubble now and wouldn't be surprised to see us on the wrong side of it.
 

Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

This decreases the margin for error injury-wise, certainly, but let's not overstate the impact. This isn't losing Hollins, Mathieu, Mo, EE, King, or even Mason & Morris, all essential rotation guys. I'm actually looking forward to seeing what Buggs can do if/when he gets extended minutes. He's the guy Gophers will need to step up.
 

Richard said:
There are 120 minutes in a game to fill at the 1,2,3 positions. I think Mathieu, Hollins, Mason, and Morris are capable enough and good enough to be counted on to play 30 m/g each without being overused. Buggs, Martin, and King should be capable of filling in at the 3-spot if there is foul trouble. Now if Mathieu, Hollins, Mason, or Morris gets injured, then we may be in trouble. Until then, I think we'll be just fine.
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Under ideal circumstances you're probably right, but between potential injury that always exists and foul trouble that now goes up when everyone has to play big minutes, there's likely to be a lot of time spent in circumstances that are not ideal. As commented by others, probably affects the way we can play defense which will also affect our offense (assuming we force fewer turnovers).
 



afurry91 said:
I don't necessarily think he was that good. In fact, I wasn't really a fan of him, but I also think we needed his minutes. He is a decent defender.

I don't think we'll have a huge drop off, but I think we might be closer to the bubble now and wouldn't be surprised to see us on the wrong side of it.
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Yes, he gave us some minutes, and I agree, he was a nice defender. However, I think this allows Buggs to step into a new role and really become the player he is capable of being (which is better than what McNeil brought to the table). Plus, more minutes for Mason is NEVER a bad thing. It's one of those deals where we'll have to wait and see. I'm not too worried about it.
 

Its not about how good or not good McNeal was. He was a D1 player and allowed for a 5 player rotation through 3 spots. Now we have 4 for 3. Any injury or foul trouble absolutely screws us. Like I said the only way to negate this is if Buggs can play a lot of minutes at the 3
 

afurry91 said:
I think making the tournament now would be quite the achievement.
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Of the things I've seen in the last couple of days that cause me some concern for the Gophers' tournament hopes, I would rank Maryland being significantly better than I thought they would be ahead of the Gophers losing McNeil. Looks like Buggs might have to step up at the 3 and I think he can. Morris can move between the 2 and 3 positions as needed. Maybe Josh Martin can grow up quickly and give some good minutes subbing at the 4.
 

oleboy41 said:
Its not about how good or not good McNeal was. He was a D1 player and allowed for a 5 player rotation through 3 spots. Now we have 4 for 3. Any injury or foul trouble absolutely screws us. Like I said the only way to negate this is if Buggs can play a lot of minutes at the 3
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I think Buggs can step up and the team doesn't have to play a 3 guard lineup at all times. In terms of depth, we're still better off than we were during the NIT last year.
 

cjbfbp said:
Of the things I've seen in the last couple of days that cause me some concern for the Gophers' tournament hopes, I would rank Maryland being significantly better than I thought they would be ahead of the Gophers losing McNeil.
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I second that.

And I like what I've seen of Purdue early on, even though K-State handled them pretty well. Boilers aren't going to be a pushover. ... that's the Gophers' first two conference games right there, both on the road.

Rutgers will be the only completely rotten team in the Big Ten this year.
 

Gophers09 said:
Under ideal circumstances you're probably right, but between potential injury that always exists and foul trouble that now goes up when everyone has to play big minutes, there's likely to be a lot of time spent in circumstances that are not ideal. As commented by others, probably affects the way we can play defense which will also affect our offense (assuming we force fewer turnovers).
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That's why I said "Buggs, Martin, and King should be capable of filling in at the 3-spot if there is foul trouble". I also don't think it's a big deal if any of the four has to play 35 minutes in a given game if one of the others is in foul trouble. Pitino stresses conditioning for a reason. Not to mention, some of the best teams in the NCAA have had major success with basically a 6-7 man rotation; it's not that uncommon.
 

afurry91 said:
I think making the tournament now would be quite the achievement.
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Thought this was a bubble team regardless and the loss of McNeil certainly doesn't help matters but making the tournament was going to be close either way.
 

Joe coleman would be playing significant minutes this season for us. I'll never understand why he left. It seems his style of play fits this system well.
 


I hope I eat a ton of Crow on Mr. Buggs because he and Martin are the answer to filling in those minutes, it wont be Shell, who is a walk on with a scholarship.
 

cjbfbp said:
Of the things I've seen in the last couple of days that cause me some concern for the Gophers' tournament hopes, I would rank Maryland being significantly better than I thought they would be ahead of the Gophers losing McNeil. Looks like Buggs might have to step up at the 3 and I think he can. Morris can move between the 2 and 3 positions as needed. Maybe Josh Martin can grow up quickly and give some good minutes subbing at the 4.
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It's a minor point but I am wondering if they play zone and King moves to the 3 spot some and they leave Buggs at the 4. He seems to be just now learning to be a little more aggressive on the boards and I'd hate to see him floating on the perimeter and losing that feel he is beginning to develop at the 4.
 

I think Morris becomes the key to this team now. He can't keep wasting possessions with bad shots like we've been seeing the last couple games. He needs to be on floor.

Speaking of Morris.....where has our buddy Howie been lately?
 

oleboy41 said:
MInus MecNeal, are we done?
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Yes, yes we are. I just saw the moving van at Pitino's house. He is quiting and leaving town and the wrecking ball crane is on the way to flatten the barn and I heard Norwood on the radio this morning talking about leaving since we no longer have a Men's basketball program.
 

If Ken Keller were still the U president he'd be talking about forfeiting the rest of the season. Biggest joker/egghead of a president the U has ever had.
 

Good lord. If our roster is so fragile that losing the #8 player in the rotation brings it down in a heap, we weren't that good to begin with.

There are 120 minutes/game between the 1,2 and 3. Previously, I would have expected both Dre's to play ~30 per game and Mason, Morris and McNeil roughly 20 each. There's no reason Mason and Morris can't each play 30 if we can learn not to foul. I'm also intrigued by what Buggs can do at the 3, though some seem to think he'll get roasted on defense. Obviously any injury or issue with any of those 4 guys now leaves us in bad shape.
 

bga1 said:
It's a minor point but I am wondering if they play zone and King moves to the 3 spot some and they leave Buggs at the 4. He seems to be just now learning to be a little more aggressive on the boards and I'd hate to see him floating on the perimeter and losing that feel he is beginning to develop at the 4.
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This might work better. They probably need to play zone when the two of them (or Martin) are in together.
 

Maximus said:
I think we can all agree that losing a guy that averages 1.8 points and 1.3 rebounds in 10.8 minutes while shooting 47.6 from the free throw line would be the death knell for any program.
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Best line in the thread! Totally agree. If losing this guy is the difference between a good season and not a good season there are much bigger issues...
 

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