Minnesota vs Iowa State in terms of overall football progam

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Maroon92

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First off congrats to the Cyclones for a great win last night. Behind the Gophers they are my next favorite team and i have been down to Ames many times over the years.

It seems long ago--but only in 2009 where the Gophers and Cyclones were at essential the same spot and played each other in the bowl game. There new coach started in '09 and ours this year and they are both similar old school type coaches. I think we have the slight recruiting advantage and the fan bases are relatively the same.

However what I can't figure out is why they seem to have turned the corner on the field (quality wins the past two years vs Ok St, Texas, Iowa etc) why all we hear is we won't be competitive (.500 record) for several more years. This is a perfect example as why I don't buy it and we should expect results much sooner than later. I saw the kare 11 piece etc and I am sorry but as a program we should expect to take steps forward every year and not assume we can't win hear or it will take 4-5 years until the coaching staff has every one on the team as their own recruits.

I think instead of having threads talking about how great Phillip Nelson is going to be in 2015 we need to be talking about raising our expectations for 2012. ISU won last night with a freshmen QB and there backup running back leading the way in OT while being a 28 point underdog and our expectations are to not give up 50 points or lets score an offensive touchdown.

If ISU can beat OSU there is no reason we shouldn't expect the gophers can't win today and next week vs the Illini. There is no way I am going to wait 3-5 years to expect wins.


Minnesota 31 NW 28
 

Nice win by Iowa State. I was going to mention this earlier in the year under the "uniform" thread...I really like Iowa States Uniforms!
 

We do not have expectations to win immediately because Brewster was a bad coach and his recruiting was not nearly as good as advertised. As a result, instead of this program heading in an upwards trajectory like ISU, we are again in a rebuilding phase. First off we need a qb. Gray is good but he will never be a great qb, hopefully Nelson will be. Until we get a qb that is a passing threat this offense will struggle. Same goes for the defense, we have a lot of young guys playing that need to develop. When comparing mn to other b10 teams using the eyeball test, our team just looks smaller. This team needs a lot of work. If we would have hired a coach that knew what they were doing, we would not be in this predicament now, instead we would conceivably be challenging top 10 teams like ISU.
 

Your "think" method wont's work for 3 basic reasons at this point in time: b(s)jm's HORRIBLE reign of inadequacy for approaching ten seasons now. That brewster clown's destruction of the football program. The mobbers and bashers here who demanded that Mason be fired back at a time when he had the Gophers beating teams such as Ohio State, Michigan, Oregon, Arkansas, Alabama, Michigan State, Penn State, etc.

You FOOLISH people seem to think it's ok for Iowa State to beat Texas, Oklahoma State and iowa once every 25 years. But, when Mason was beating equal or better teams, you felt that he HAD to be fired.

Well, watch and see just how much of a leap Iowa State makes in reaching the "next level". They haven't...and they WON'T. But it is pretty DAMN exciting to knock a team off every now and then and to be somewhat competetive.

Iowa state is now 1-18 against teams ranked #1 OR #2 at the time Iowa State played them in their last 19 matches against teams that match that description.

You people DESERVE exactly what b(s)jm and that brewster clown and the former prexy of the U of M gave you when YOU asked for it. IF you want to be like Iowa State or better, you shouldn't have done what you did. Now you have got exactly what you deserve.

Coach Kill and Coach Mason will share a rivalry that will greatly impact their chances of success...Kill at Minnesota and Mason at Kansas. The Gophers will both face Nebraska EVERY year. Nebraska will be the KEY to Coach Kill's success here at Minnesota. Nebraska was the team that Coach Mason knew he had to beat EVERY year...and never could.

Will Coach Kill be able to beat Nebraska at least once in a while? That is my key question for you people who like to use the THINK method of demanding that the Golden Gophers MUST be EXPECTED t be one of the top teams in the Big Ten Conference more often than not. You will also want to continue to FIRE your way to success for the Gophers.

It NEVER has worked and it NEVER will work. The Gophers have to find ways to win games any way they can and then hope to put together a nice run evey now and then. BUT, if they can be competetive, we can celebrate some scenes like those scenes out on the field in Ames last night on our own TCF BANK STADIUM Field.

; 0 )
 

Put down the keyboard birdie, and watch the game.
 


imthewalrus said:
You will also want to continue to FIRE your way to success for the Gophers.

It NEVER has worked and it NEVER will work. The Gophers have to find ways to win games any way they can and then hope to put together a nice run evey now and then. BUT, if they can be competetive, we can celebrate some scenes like those scenes out on the field in Ames last night on our own TCF BANK STADIUM Field.

; 0 )
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It worked when we fired Wacker and hired Mason. It worked when Auburn fired Tubberville and hired Chizek. It worked when Florida fired Zook and hired Meyer. It worked when Michigan St fired Smith and hired Dantonio.

Needless to say, firing someone and then making the right hire has definitely led to a TON of turnarounds.

Hopefully, our firing of Brewster leads to success here.
 

Just wait a season or two...the mobbers and bashers and the local presss will be wanting to fire Coach Kill. I say: give Coach Kill TENURE here at Minnesota and tell the mobbers and bashers to go to hell...It is the ONLY chance this program has to gain some stability and to get off the roller coaster that only knows how to go down at 90 mph under this b(s)jm reign of incompetence...

; 0 )
 

imthewalrus said:
Just wait a season or two...the mobbers and bashers and the local press will be wantign to fire Coach Kill. I say: give Coach Kill TENURE here at Minnesota and tell the mobbers and bashers to go to hell...It is the ONLY chance this program has to gain some stability and to get off the roller coaster that only knows how to go down at 90 mph under this b(s)jm reign of incompetence...

; 0 )
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Michigan really should've kept RichRod. You can't fire your way to success.
 

If the goal is to try to win as many ball games as possible, the Gophers would certainly benefit by trading conferences with ISU.
 



imthewalrus said:
Your "think" method wont's work for 3 basic reasons at this point in time: b(s)jm's HORRIBLE reign of inadequacy for approaching ten seasons now. That brewster clown's destruction of the football program. The mobbers and bashers here who demanded that Mason be fired back at a time when he had the Gophers beating teams such as Ohio State, Michigan, Oregon, Arkansas, Alabama, Michigan State, Penn State, etc.

You FOOLISH people seem to think it's ok for Iowa State to beat Texas, Oklahoma State and iowa once every 25 years. But, when Mason was beating equal or better teams, you felt that he HAD to be fired.

Well, watch and see just how much of a leap Iowa State makes in reaching the "next level". They haven't...and they WON'T. But it is pretty DAMN exciting to knock a team off every now and then and to be somewhat competetive.

Iowa state is now 1-18 against teams ranked #1 OR #2 at the time Iowa State played them in their last 19 matches against teams that match that description.

You people DESERVE exactly what b(s)jm and that brewster clown and the former prexy of the U of M gave you when YOU asked for it. IF you want to be like Iowa State or better, you shouldn't have done what you did. Now you have got exactly what you deserve.

Coach Kill and Coach Mason will share a thatalry that will greatly impact their chances of success...Kill at Minnesota and Mason at Kansas. The Gophers will both face Nebraska EVERY year. Nebraska will be the KEY to Coach Kill's success here at Minnesota. Nebraska was the team that Coach Mason knew he had to beat EVERY year...and never could.

Will Coach Kill be able to beat Nebraska at least once in a while? That is my key question for you people who like to use the THINK method of demanding that the Golden Gophers MUST be EXPECTED t be one of the top teams in the Big Ten Conference more often than not. You will also want to continue to FIRE your way to success for the Gophers.

It NEVER has worked and it NEVER will work. The Gophers have to find ways to win games any way they can and then hope to put together a nice run evey now and then. BUT, if they can be competetive, we can celebrate some scenes like those scenes out on the field in Ames last night on our own TCF BANK STADIUM Field.

; 0 )
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You are a fantastic comedian! Ever thought of doing some open mic nights?
 

Wren still gives me a headache. Imagine being his wife or children or co-workers and listening to repeated non-sense day after day?
 

I think Iowa St. is a better program right now. But I would take the future of the U of M program over ISU's in a heartbeat. ISU will always be 2nd in their own state, and IMO, has never seemed like a upper half program in the Big 12 or 10 or 8 or whatever that conference has now.
 

Maximus said:
Michigan really should've kept RichRod. You can't fire your way to success.
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How many coaches has Michigan fired in the past 45 years, other than the incompetent rich rod? (Moeller "melted down" and resigned.)

How many coaches has Minnesota fired in the past 60 plus years?

Minnesota has made itself one of the ultimate graveyards of football coaches. We even fired and forced out coaches here who had won National Championships. We fired/forced out Bierman, (Fessler resigned) Warmath, Stoll, Salem, (hoax bagged a$$ for Notre Dame in a little less than 2 seasons) Gutey, Wacker, Mason and brewster in that time frame.

Which program has had the best record during that time? Why, the one that didn't fire NEARLY as many coaches....

; 0 )
 



imthewalrus said:
How many coaches has Michigan fired in the past 45 years, other than the incompetent rich rod? (Moeller "melted down" and resiged.)

How many coaches has Minnesota fired in the past 60 plus years?

Minnesota has made itself one of the ultimate graveyards of football coaches. We even fired and forced out coaches here who had won National Championships. We fired/forced out Bierman, (Fessler resigned) Warmath, Stoll, Salem, (hoax bagged a$$ for Notre Dame in a little less than 2 seasons) Gutey, Wacker, Mason and brewster in that time frame.

Which program has had the best record during that time? Why, the one that didn't fire NEARLY as many coaches....

; 0 )
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Salem, Gutey, Wacker Mason, Brewster. Who shouldn't have been fired and deserved more time?
 


Gute

Actually, I would have given Gutekunst more time. I am not going to rehash all of the problems HoltZ left behind, but I think John paid for some recruiting gaps with his job.
 

gopherbadgerman said:
I think Iowa St. is a better program right now. But I would take the future of the U of M program over ISU's in a heartbeat. ISU will always be 2nd in their own state, and IMO, has never seemed like a upper half program in the Big 12 or 10 or 8 or whatever that conference has now.
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Total agreement...!
 

This is Minnesota we are talking about...not Michigan. For God's sake, dude or dudette, which ever your case may be: haven't you seen the miserable results the University of Minnesota has had with it's Football Program? Haven't you seen all the coaches who have been fired here????? Running HUGE numbers of coaches through the Minnesota Program has done NOTHING good for Golden Gopher Football.
The problem at the University of Minnesota has not ALWAYS been just the coach. The administrations at the U of M NEVER made a committment to the football program the way Michigan and Ohio State did. NEVER. Crucify the administrators at the U of M before you fire any more football coaches. The fools in the administration just can NEVER get it right.
Michigan can do anything Michigan wants to do. The administration at the other U of M in Ann Arbor has ALWAYS supported the football program there. They hire very few football coaches BUT they always support their football program and are proud of their football program.

How foolish can you be foolish to the maximus?????

; 0 )
 

imthewalrus said:
You FOOLISH people seem to think it's ok for Iowa State to beat Texas, Oklahoma State and iowa once every 25 years. But, when Mason was beating equal or better teams, you felt that he HAD to be fired.

Well, watch and see just how much of a leap Iowa State makes in reaching the "next level". They haven't...and they WON'T. But it is pretty DAMN exciting to knock a team off every now and then and to be somewhat competetive.

Iowa state is now 1-18 against teams ranked #1 OR #2 at the time Iowa State played them in their last 19 matches against teams that match that description.
Click to expand...

Iowa State has been competitive Okie State, beating them more regularly than "every 25 years". They have become a "have" in the last few years, with Pickens' $$$, so the win was big; they have gone to the next level. Ferentz has a losing record against Iowa State, again, "every 25 years" is not applicable. We've played Texas 6-7 times and have one win.

As for being 1-18 against teams ranked #1 or #2, I'd be interested to see what most team's records are for comparison.
 

gopherbadgerman said:
I think Iowa St. is a better program right now. But I would take the future of the U of M program over ISU's in a heartbeat. ISU will always be 2nd in their own state, and IMO, has never seemed like a upper half program in the Big 12 or 10 or 8 or whatever that conference has now.
Click to expand...

It's hard to argue with this. Iowa State is the better program right now, but Minnesota has more advantages; which could lead to more upside. The two programs have been on similar trajectories for years. Your Wacker to our Walden, your Mason to our McCarney. Mas and Mac brought the programs to respectability, but couldn't get over the hump to the next level. Then came your Brewster to our Chizik. The best thing that could have happened was Chizik leaving and hiring Rhoads. Brew stayed too long. I have thought that Kill is Minnesota's Rhoads. The health issues concern me, but I really think he's the right guy for the job.

However, it is going to take time and support from the casual fans and administration. The new stadium is a huge boost. Minnesota needs to close their borders and look to Wisconsin as the model to follow. Like Wisconsin, the Gophers are the only BCS team in the state. It can be done here, but the one challenge the Gophers have is Pro sports. The Gophers have struggled since the Vikings got here and I don't think it is completely a coincidence. The greater Twin Cities population is also roughly the same as the State of Iowa total population.

Iowa State doesn't have to worry about Pro sports, but we do have another BCS team in state. In the '70s, a Des Moines Register poll found that the Cyclones were the most popular team in the state. They went to 3 bowls that decade and even stayed home once, while in the Top25...that's when bowls meant something. They went 8-3 one season with loses to #1-OU, #2-NU and #3-CU. The years under Majors and Bruce were headed in the right direction, but then Woody Hayes punched the Clemson player and Bruce left for home. Poor hires and *NO* administrative support sent Iowa State into their worst years in the mid-'80s until 2000. That's a hell of a hole to dig out of, but they are trying and have the admin support they need. At the time ISU went into a dive, Iowa (after decades as a horrible program) hired Fry and the tables turned.

Balance may be starting to be restored again. For a couple of years in the '70s, ISU had a larger enrollment than Iowa. ISU has had a larger undergrad enrollment for years and more Iowans attend ISU. If the current enrollment #s continue, ISU will be larger than Iowa in a year or two. Things are changing in Ames, against decades old (many self-inflicted) obstacles. ISU has 6 wins so far this season, while playing the 8th toughest schedule in the country. Rhoads has already taken a step past McCarney, but the next level is a few, challenging steps away. I like the way we are trending.

It can happen in Minnesota, but I think the Alumni (not the fans here, I am preaching to the choir) need to increase support, a new AD is needed NOW, and then be patient with Kill. I do see this team improving. It might actually help that our beloved Vikings are terrible right now. The state is desperate for a winner, besides the Lynx. One thing to keep in mind the Gophers have played the 16 toughest schedule in the nation and that has played a role in their record. Assuming good health for Kill, I see them easily doubling their wins next year.
 

StPaulCyclone said:
Iowa State is the better program right now, but Minnesota has more advantages; which could lead to more upside. The two programs have been on similar trajectories for years. Your Wacker to our Walden, your Mason to our McCarney. Mas and Mac brought the programs to respectability, but couldn't get over the hump to the next level. Then came your Brewster to our Chizik. The best thing that could have happened was Chizik leaving and hiring Rhoads. Brew stayed too long. I have thought that Kill is Minnesota's Rhoads. The health issues concern me, but I really think he's the right guy for the job.

However, it is going to take time and support from the casual fans and administration. The new stadium is a huge boost. Minnesota needs to close their borders and look to Wisconsin as the model to follow. Like Wisconsin, the Gophers are the only BCS team in the state. It can be done here, but the one challenge the Gophers have is Pro sports. The Gophers have struggled since the Vikings got here and I don't think it is completely a coincidence. The greater Twin Cities population is also roughly the same as the State of Iowa total population.

Iowa State doesn't have to worry about Pro sports, but we do have another BCS team in state. In the '70s, a Des Moines Register poll found that the Cyclones were the most popular team in the state. They went to 3 bowls that decade and even stayed home once, while in the Top25...that's when bowls meant something. They went 8-3 one season with loses to #1-OU, #2-NU and #3-CU. The years under Majors and Bruce were headed in the right direction, but then Woody Hayes punched the Clemson player and Bruce left for home. Poor hires and *NO* administrative support sent Iowa State into their worst years in the mid-'80s until 2000. That's a hell of a hole to dig out of, but they are trying and have the admin support they need. At the time ISU went into a dive, Iowa (after decades as a horrible program) hired Fry and the tables turned.

Balance may be starting to be restored again. For a couple of years in the '70s, ISU had a larger enrollment than Iowa. ISU has had a larger undergrad enrollment for years and more Iowans attend ISU. If the current enrollment #s continue, ISU will be larger than Iowa in a year or two. Things are changing in Ames, against decades old (many self-inflicted) obstacles. ISU has 6 wins so far this season, while playing the 8th toughest schedule in the country. Rhoads has already taken a step past McCarney, but the next level is a few, challenging steps away. I like the way we are trending.

It can happen in Minnesota, but I think the Alumni (not the fans here, I am preaching to the choir) need to increase support, a new AD is needed NOW, and then be patient with Kill. I do see this team improving. It might actually help that our beloved Vikings are terrible right now. The state is desperate for a winner, besides the Lynx. One thing to keep in mind the Gophers have played the 16 toughest schedule in the nation and that has played a role in their record. Assuming good health for Kill, I see them easily doubling their wins next year.
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Ageed. There is NO comparison between the two institutions, either academically or location or stadium or facilities. I grew up 5 miles from the ISU ag farms in a Cyclone family and happily sent my daughter to Minneapolis this fall and didn't think twice, well, maybe twice, about out of state tuition.

Rhoads is the PERFECT fit of Ames. He will do well there, and has the program heading in the right direction, but it is his third year. Hardly fair for some to compare at this point in time, and Chiz left a LOT more talent in Ames than Brew did in Minneapolis.

As much fun as it was to see all those associated with ISU get to enjoy their biggest win in school history Friday night (and I'm one who generally roots against them as I live in a cul-de-sac of Clown grads), lets not forget that it was the FIRST win in 58 games vs. teams in the top SIX. I certainly hope that we are aiming higher than that.
 

Brew had a top 20 recruiting class in there and Chizik's classes were ranked comparably to McCarney's; so I am not sure Rhoads has had a talent edge over Kill. He's just had a head start.

UofM is a very good academic institution, but keep in mind that ISU is also a AAU member. While ISU has a beautiful campus, Ames is what it is college town that built up around the university. Unfortunately, the city's leadership has held it's development back. UofM has a great, urban location; but I wonder how much that helps recruiting.

The new stadium is an advantage, but don't know that the facilities don't compare after that. Especially with the FOF ISU has started on and should be completed next fall. Certainly, the fan support in Ames often surpasses the results on the field, etc. and that is an advantage.

You grew up in a family of Cyclones and use use the term "Clowns"?
 

after playing both UMINN & ISU (and again in 2014 at ISU) I still think GOPHERS are more talented, just not coached as well.

Minneapolis vs Ames isnt even compareable. Gophers will be back soon!
 


I agree with what you're saying StPaulCyclone...I think ISU is ahead of the U because of better coaching for a longer period of time. Rhodes is a better coach than Brew at a lot of areas (having a system, evaluating talent, cultivating talent), and so while the U might have a tad more raw ability, ISU is a better football team now. If Kill is succesful, those areas where Rhodes outcoached Brew will be minimized (or possibly swing in our favor) and we'll pass ISU.

ISU has a good thing going though. They have a good coach.
 

TheJackass said:

Ageed. There is NO comparison between the two institutions, either academically or location or stadium or facilities. I grew up 5 miles from the ISU ag farms in a Cyclone family and happily sent my daughter to Minneapolis this fall and didn't think twice, well, maybe twice, about out of state tuition.

Rhoads is the PERFECT fit of Ames. He will do well there, and has the program heading in the right direction, but it is his third year. Hardly fair for some to compare at this point in time, and Chiz left a LOT more talent in Ames than Brew did in Minneapolis.

As much fun as it was to see all those associated with ISU get to enjoy their biggest win in school history Friday night (and I'm one who generally roots against them as I live in a cul-de-sac of Clown grads), lets not forget that it was the FIRST win in 58 games vs. teams in the top SIX. I certainly hope that we are aiming higher than that.
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I said my family graduated and cheered for the clowns, not me. I always did the opposite of what was expected of me. I started following the Hawks in '77 when the series resumed, and graduated from FSU in '91, and started following the Gophs when they recruited my daughter, and bought full in to Goldy early in the Iowa game this year. That was an amazing experience.

Back on topic. I seen most of Rhoads games and all of Coach Kills games. The ratings might say one thing, but my eyes tell me that Chiz left a bit more talent.

Ames is a decent town, but is on par with Manhattan and Dekalb, and maybe West Lafayete. It's not even close to Iowa City, Lawrence, Tallahassee, Madison, let alone Minneapolis.

End result is that I see no reason that The U cannot return to a top tier program with the right staff and proper support. I don't see ISU ever becoming a top 10/15 program on a consistent basis.
 

I understand that you didn't attend ISU, but that family did; that's I would have thought you'd have more respect, or at least originality, than to use the term "Clowns".
 

This ISU upset is a reminder of how much higher expectations are for Minnesota than anyone here wants to admit.

In 1999 Minnesota also beat the #2 team in the nation in the month of Novemeber under a 3rd-year head coach. It was seen merely as a "step in the right direction". Yet, this win happened on the road against a team that was considered unbeatable at the time.

There is a pretty large percentage of our "fan base" that will not really be happy until Minnesota is competing with Michigan for the division every year (with Nebraska, Iowa, Michigan State or Northwestern there to merely play the occasional role of spoiler).
 

Goldmember said:
If the goal is to try to win as many ball games as possible, the Gophers would certainly benefit by trading conferences with ISU.
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Things change from year to year, but this year ISU has one of the toughest schedules in the nation (#5 last I saw) and ESPN has the Big XII ranked as the 2nd toughest conference, while the BIG is ranked 4th. As an ISU fan, I would gladly change schedules with the Gophers.

By the time the year is over, ISU will have played 7 ranked teams & possibly 3 top ten teams.
 

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