***MINNESOTA AT NEBRASKA BOTH TEAMS NEED A WIN IN-GAME THREAD!!!***

Donate To GopherHole
MinnGopher said:
I'm not really sure what the allure of playing Treyton more is to some. He is a slow, 6'10/190lbs, and can't guard a 4 or 5 very well. On offense he stands on the arc setting screens and waiting to shoot a 3 ball, and is pretty much zero threat to take it to the rim. He is a freshman and can develop but doesn't look the part right now.

I'm not completely knocking him, he will continue to get better and if he can keep his 3pt stroke/put on some weight, he will grow into a role.
Click to expand...
If we had pulled out some of the games where we were in it and competing well the calls for TT and Thiam to play more would be much quieter. But since we have been losing there seems to be this thought process that we should just put them out there whether they deserve it or not.

Screw practice and whatever the coaches are seeing on a daily basis.....the fan coaches know best how to bring along and develop a player, just a shame that our actual coaches won't listen.
 




swanyj said:
I agree with you somewhat in regards to wins. But I think getting both Thiam and TT at least 10 min per game early would have been helping right now. This year never should have been strictly about wins.....we all like winning BB, but we also brought Johnson in to improve for the future of this program. Without early development of the young guys we will not improve. Next year we have a good crop of guys coming in but they will be deer in the headlights. All freshman suffer from the game being too fast and not having experience to deal with the level of play. Without having more experience from TT and Thiam (if he is any good...we do not know due to lack of playing time), it will be very hard next year as well. Depth development should start day 1 if you are a good coach that is looking towards the future. All of these guys will be gone next year except Battle, so there is NO excuse to not have started developing TT and Thiam by letting them get at least 10-15 minutes per game. As I said, when we first saw TT for the 2-3 minutes he was in early in the season, many did not think highly of him. But now that we are seeing more minutes we can see potential. We need to see more minutes from Thiam and let him get his feet wet, we may yet be surprised and start to see potential in him. But clearly if Johnson does not get going, Thiam will be gone and we will never know. This is what happened with Pitino, lack of bench development that clearly resulted in trouble when the main guys went down.
Click to expand...
unprecedented circumstances this year for this team... take everything you know about college basketball program and player development and throw it out the window. open transfer window aligned with hiring an unknown coach coming off of COVID year combined with injuries to two key players before the season even began equals a whole lotta stink. there is nothing to gain from this season other than game film showing future recruits how we want to play... that is it. throwing two unprepared players on the floor does not help with setting any sort of foundation. come back next year if you want to start identifying patterns.
 


skiumah1 said:
Agreed. Other teams have figured us out more and more as the season has gone on as well. More tape. The ball dominant Willis offense has lost steam, and we just don't have other guys to make things happen.

I like Battle though. I like Battle, Ihnen and Fox next year if you can find some guards to play with those guys. Haven't seen a second of Fox obviously so maybe I'm jumping the gun but the kid was recruited by everybody.
Click to expand...
From what I've seen of Fox prior to this year, I think his impact will probably be much more on defense than on offense next year. At least early. He seemed to be a guy who scored most of his points slashing to the paint in D-2.
 

MNVCGUY said:
If we had pulled out some of the games where we were in it and competing well the calls for TT and Thiam to play more would be much quieter. But since we have been losing there seems to be this thought process that we should just put them out there whether they deserve it or not.

Screw practice and whatever the coaches are seeing on a daily basis.....the fan coaches know best how to bring along and develop a player, just a shame that our actual coaches won't listen.
Click to expand...
The season is a lost one, has been for a while, it's called potential, Sutherlin, Stephens, and Loewe were played with by the Nebraska guards, I don't care how much effort they put in on defense they can't they can't defend at this level, Thiam can, develop it.

TT in a couple of years can be a game changer, I can't wait to see how he develops.
 

MNVCGUY said:
If we had pulled out some of the games where we were in it and competing well the calls for TT and Thiam to play more would be much quieter. But since we have been losing there seems to be this thought process that we should just put them out there whether they deserve it or not.

Screw practice and whatever the coaches are seeing on a daily basis.....the fan coaches know best how to bring along and develop a player, just a shame that our actual coaches won't listen.
Click to expand...
Same page man, there is always this weird allure to some fans to play the backup. Like playing Mond against the packers, like benching Morgan in the middle of the season. I get giving them some time for developmental reasons but think people take it a little too far.
 

ecoperson said:
unprecedented circumstances this year for this team... take everything you know about college basketball program and player development and throw it out the window. open transfer window aligned with hiring an unknown coach coming off of COVID year combined with injuries to two key players before the season even began equals a whole lotta stink. there is nothing to gain from this season other than game film showing future recruits how we want to play... that is it. throwing two unprepared players on the floor does not help with setting any sort of foundation. come back next year if you want to start identifying patterns.
Click to expand...
In regards to young players seeing game-time, there are a lot of great coaches who have the philosophy "When you show me you can do the things I need consistently in practice, that's when you get floor time". Obviously, none of us has been the practice regularly and had a chance to see exactly what BJ is demanding that Thompson and Thiam be able to do before getting game time. As Eco mentioned, throwing unprepared players into a game, doesn't really make that much difference in their development. There are a lot of coaches that feel the same way.

As I mentioned, haven't been to practice to actually see for ourselves, but what if TT is getting absolutely dominated in the paint by Curry and Daniels (who aren't even Honorable Mention caliber bigs)? What if the standard Johnson is looking for is "just be defensively competitive every day in practice and show that you're capable of stopping your teammates in the paint x-percentage of the time" and we'll try to work you in.

Again, not being at meetings and practices, but based on some of the things Johnson has said and his reactions to some questions from media, it seems likely that Ben has had many conversations with Thompson with the basic theme, "You're shooting for floor time next year. This year is about gaining size and practicing against other college players". If Thompson is truly serious about wanting to be a Gopher, pretty sure he knows and understands that he needs a lot of work in everything except maybe his 3-point shot to be ready to contribute. I'm guessing that Coach Johnson is being very careful with Thompsons minutes and trying very hard to only put him in situations in which he's fairly certain that Thompson can have a positive experience as opposed to putting him in situations in which (based what he's seen in practice every day) it's likely he'll get hammered. Good coaches also tend to keep that in mind as well, when doling out game time.

Now, if you are one of those who believe that the ONLY way to be ready to play in games is to actually play in games, then you'll probably disagree with this post.
 



Chico Gopher said:
In regards to young players seeing game-time, there are a lot of great coaches who have the philosophy "When you show me you can do the things I need consistently in practice, that's when you get floor time". Obviously, none of us has been the practice regularly and had a chance to see exactly what BJ is demanding that Thompson and Thiam be able to do before getting game time. As Eco mentioned, throwing unprepared players into a game, doesn't really make that much difference in their development. There are a lot of coaches that feel the same way.

As I mentioned, haven't been to practice to actually see for ourselves, but what if TT is getting absolutely dominated in the paint by Curry and Daniels (who aren't even Honorable Mention caliber bigs)? What if the standard Johnson is looking for is "just be defensively competitive every day in practice and show that you're capable of stopping your teammates in the paint x-percentage of the time" and we'll try to work you in.

Again, not being at meetings and practices, but based on some of the things Johnson has said and his reactions to some questions from media, it seems likely that Ben has had many conversations with Thompson with the basic theme, "You're shooting for floor time next year. This year is about gaining size and practicing against other college players". If Thompson is truly serious about wanting to be a Gopher, pretty sure he knows and understands that he needs a lot of work in everything except maybe his 3-point shot to be ready to contribute. I'm guessing that Coach Johnson is being very careful with Thompsons minutes and trying very hard to only put him in situations in which he's fairly certain that Thompson can have a positive experience as opposed to putting him in situations in which (based what he's seen in practice every day) it's likely he'll get hammered. Good coaches also tend to keep that in mind as well, when doling out game time.

Now, if you are one of those who believe that the ONLY way to be ready to play in games is to actually play in games, then you'll probably disagree with this post.
Click to expand...
Except when he played an entire 40 minutes.
 



Bad Gopher said:
The sad part is that, if they do finish last in the conference, you can't make much of a case that they overachieved. They'd turn out to be just as bad as they were supposed to be.
Click to expand...
They greatly overachieved by beating Michigan at Ann Arbor and Rutgers with three starters out. They enormously overachieved by playing Sparty to the last second at East Lansing. They overachieved by beating Miss. St and a couple of other good teams in non-conference.

They are outmanned every game by better athletes and deep benches. They are worn out and tired from the effort given. It will go down as a good first season for Johnson given the givens.
 



BarnBurner said:
Sure was.

He had to play, and he played very good BB. Yet TT is still painted as less than......
Click to expand...
You continue to deploy the same simplistic black/white analysis that you tend to use elsewhere. One must be willing to explore the gray instead of digging in your heels.
  • There was little to no film on Thompson until Rutgers. Teams now know his strengths and weaknesses and can exploit them.
  • Rutgers walked in thinking they would run away with the game against a squad that could barely make the minimum 7 players. Rutgers got behind and we were fortunate that the game ended when it did or we might have lost.
  • Thompson may have matched up perfectly against Rutgers as they do not have a dominant inside game.
  • Players sometimes have one game where they play out of their mind. They then regress to the mean. Does Charles Buggs several years ago against Iowa ring a bell? Brandon Johnson went off with the 3 ball last year vs.Iowa but never showed that level of form and accuracy again.
No one is claiming that Thompson is garbage. They are just aware enough to know that freshman bigs take some time to mature.
 
Last edited:

swanyj said:
I think fatigue is totally a factor. Johnson continually riding the same horses, you can see the guys are gassed when it comes to crunch time. And now that is factoring in from the start. Another reason he should have been getting at least 10-15 minutes from the start for Thiam and TT so as to give the other guys a breather and not wear them down as he has. Doing the same thing Pitino did.
Click to expand...
You cannot play Thiam while you are trying to win.
 

ecoperson said:
unprecedented circumstances this year for this team... take everything you know about college basketball program and player development and throw it out the window. open transfer window aligned with hiring an unknown coach coming off of COVID year combined with injuries to two key players before the season even began equals a whole lotta stink. there is nothing to gain from this season other than game film showing future recruits how we want to play... that is it. throwing two unprepared players on the floor does not help with setting any sort of foundation. come back next year if you want to start identifying patterns.
Click to expand...
I think we got lucky with Ben Johnson...for the long term. But what you describe above is why so many here were concerned at the point of the hire and in the ensuing weeks when the entire roster left.

For a coach that has never been a head coach before to rebuild an entire roster and compete in the Big Ten at a school that hasn't succeeded in 40 years is a pretty daunting task. Next year will be tough as well. I hope that next year Ben will be willing and confident enough to sacrifice short term wins to build with the young guys he is recruiting by playing them. Go 8 or 9 deep and let them learn and get better as the year goes on.

The Big Ten coaches learned what it takes to beat what Ben is doing and there is no doubt that the team looks and is playing rattled right now. It will be interesting to see how he adjusts.
 


MinnGopher said:
I'm not really sure what the allure of playing Treyton more is to some. He is a slow, 6'10/190lbs, and can't guard a 4 or 5 very well. On offense he stands on the arc setting screens and waiting to shoot a 3 ball, and is pretty much zero threat to take it to the rim. He is a freshman and can develop but doesn't look the part right now.

I'm not completely knocking him, he will continue to get better and if he can keep his 3pt stroke/put on some weight, he will grow into a role.
Click to expand...
The allure is that he's better than Daniels and Ogele. Playing seniors with no upside helps neither today or tomorrow.
 

Confidence is so important to big men. Guards tend to be fine just running up and down the court throwing up shots but it seems that big men often struggle with the mental part of the game. Johnson knows what Thompson's make-up is. Maybe he doesn't want to risk a young player getting the yips that suddenly ruin a career.

Thompson's La Lumiere team seemed very guard heavy so it is not as if he is coming in with a lot of recent run under his belt. I honestly worried that this might have set his development back.
 

the big question is:

Is this a blip, or a trend?

I don't think I'm overstating the case to say that the PSU game on Saturday is now a very important game for the team and the coaching staff.

If the Gophers come back with a better game plan and better effort, things won't look so bad.

But, if the Gophs stink up the joint again, it will get really ugly the rest of the way, and cast a lot of doubt on Johnson as a coach.

realistically, there are 4 "winnable" games left in the season. 2 with PSU and 2 with NW. any other wins would be upsets.

The Gophs need to win as least 2 of those 4 games, and preferably 3. If they don't, it's going to get ugly, and that could carry over to the off-season and recruiting.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
the big question is:

Is this a blip, or a trend?

I don't think I'm overstating the case to say that the PSU game on Saturday is now a very important game for the team and the coaching staff.

If the Gophers come back with a better game plan and better effort, things won't look so bad.

But, if the Gophs stink up the joint again, it will get really ugly the rest of the way, and cast a lot of doubt on Johnson as a coach.

realistically, there are 4 "winnable" games left in the season. 2 with PSU and 2 with NW. any other wins would be upsets.

The Gophs need to win as least 2 of those 4 games, and preferably 3. If they don't, it's going to get ugly, and that could carry over to the off-season and recruiting.
Click to expand...
I think nw is better than you think and will be tough to beat.
 


short ornery norwegian said:
the big question is:

Is this a blip, or a trend?

I don't think I'm overstating the case to say that the PSU game on Saturday is now a very important game for the team and the coaching staff.

If the Gophers come back with a better game plan and better effort, things won't look so bad.

But, if the Gophs stink up the joint again, it will get really ugly the rest of the way, and cast a lot of doubt on Johnson as a coach.

realistically, there are 4 "winnable" games left in the season. 2 with PSU and 2 with NW. any other wins would be upsets.

The Gophs need to win as least 2 of those 4 games, and preferably 3. If they don't, it's going to get ugly, and that could carry over to the off-season and recruiting.
Click to expand...
I am honestly not concerned with carry over. The guys overachieved in the preseason. They've held up in conference fairly well considering. Many here thought that they would be blown out of some games in the BIG10. They've only lost one game by over 20.

This team knows who they are and what their limitations are. The players will welcome a new start next year to build on the successes that they have had this year. The recruits still can see what this coaching staff can do. They also know what the pundits said at the beginning of the year and that this team has overachieved.

All will be fine. I want a couple more wins just to send the seniors out with a bang.
 

short ornery norwegian said:
the big question is:

Is this a blip, or a trend?

I don't think I'm overstating the case to say that the PSU game on Saturday is now a very important game for the team and the coaching staff.

If the Gophers come back with a better game plan and better effort, things won't look so bad.

But, if the Gophs stink up the joint again, it will get really ugly the rest of the way, and cast a lot of doubt on Johnson as a coach.

realistically, there are 4 "winnable" games left in the season. 2 with PSU and 2 with NW. any other wins would be upsets.

The Gophs need to win as least 2 of those 4 games, and preferably 3. If they don't, it's going to get ugly, and that could carry over to the off-season and recruiting.
Click to expand...
Agreed. If they lose to PSU, I have trouble seeing them win another game. 11-18, 2-18 would be a huge disappointment given where we started. And even given the low expectations we started with, I'd give it a disappointing C.
 

Dakota2 said:
You cannot play Thiam while you are trying to win.
Click to expand...
No one said to start him. Playing him 10-15 minutes is what is needed to get him ready for next year. Winning this year is not the goal. The goal is the future development of this team.
 

ecoperson said:
I am honestly not concerned with carry over. The guys overachieved in the preseason. They've held up in conference fairly well considering. Many here thought that they would be blown out of some games in the BIG10. They've only lost one game by over 20.

This team knows who they are and what their limitations are. The players will welcome a new start next year to build on the successes that they have had this year. The recruits still can see what this coaching staff can do. They also know what the pundits said at the beginning of the year and that this team has overachieved.

All will be fine. I want a couple more wins just to send the seniors out with a bang.
Click to expand...
Wanted 4 more and last night was one of those 4.
Still disappointed.
 

howeda7 said:
Agreed. If they lose to PSU, I have trouble seeing them win another game. 11-18, 2-18 would be a huge disappointment given where we started. And even given the low expectations we started with, I'd give it a disappointing C.
Click to expand...
isn't this just typical MN basketball? raise hopes during the first half of the season then crash and burn the second half. In the past we could point to injuries. Wear&tear on the starters this year? easier for opponents to game plan with so few moving pieces for the gophers?
 

Dakota2 said:
They greatly overachieved by beating Michigan at Ann Arbor and Rutgers with three starters out. They enormously overachieved by playing Sparty to the last second at East Lansing. They overachieved by beating Miss. St and a couple of other good teams in non-conference.

They are outmanned every game by better athletes and deep benches. They are worn out and tired from the effort given. It will go down as a good first season for Johnson given the givens.
Click to expand...
Not saying they didn't overachieve; I'm saying it's hard to make a convincing case--to recruits, fans, media, etc. The feather in their hat would still be to finish strong and separate themselves from last place in the conference. What you're trying to do this year is make a lockdown case to coaches and parents that their sons are going to be developed, coached well, and have a chance to win at Minnesota.
 

I do think some of it just comes down to this:

Which team has the better athletes?

Most nights in the B1G, the Gophers simply are not as athletic as the teams they are playing. Now, you can overcome that with a combination of effort, schemes and effective play. But, when push comes to shove, athletes make plays. and the team with better athletes or more athletes is generally going to make more plays.

now, it looks like the Gophs will be more athletic next year with the players coming in and the players coming off injury. but there is still a lot of room for improvement in that area.
 

GopherOhana said:
isn't this just typical MN basketball? raise hopes during the first half of the season then crash and burn the second half. In the past we could point to injuries. Wear&tear on the starters this year? easier for opponents to game plan with so few moving pieces for the gophers?
Click to expand...
nothing typical about this year or team. they exceeded expectations through the non-conference but most were very worried about conference play. add limited bench, less talent, and far less inside size (and talent) to your last two statements and you've got a fairly good list for why we've seen the losses creep up.

the team has lost one game by 20+, there were posters on here who suggested that they were going to be blown out in every game.
 

You must log in or register to reply here.



Top Bottom