Midseason termination is not a bad thing

[GopherOhana]

Makes sense to me.

Seriously, the post you replied to is slanted and intellectually dishonest. We first got our season tickets in 90-91. The Gophs had just been to the rounds of 8 and 16 the previous two years (cleanly, I might add) and were only nine years removed from a conference title. They'd just recruited Ariel McDonald and would subsequently add Voshon Lenard, Randy Carter, and Jayson Walton. The building was full and rocking. A snapshot in time, I know, but that level of success and excitement is easily within reach for a school and a city like ours, under the right leadership and administration. This situation has always had great potential and continues to, which I suspect is why a lot of us stick around. There is no logical reason why the success they've had in Madison is not possible here.

i'm on the other end with U bball. Success is fleeting, lots of mediocre teams and some really bad ones. When you think they are starting to roll, something stupid comes up: a brawl, players selling tickets, mark hall making long distance calls on a U phone, the Madison after party and rape charges, tutors writing papers, a stolen laptop, players making a sex tape, Lynch's behaviors. after these the U seems to embrace the punishment, making the pain last longer.

Baylor can have a player kill a team mate and recover more quickly than the U can from minor infractions.

 

[dlnavra]

OK now I'm getting pissed. Let's look at the MN program from an historical perspective, and what has happened compared to the successes the Gophers have experienced.

1972-75 Bill Musselman coached the circus to many wins, led the nation in attendance '75, but was never able to overcome the ugly brawl incident vs. Ohio St. He definitely established a culture that led to the incident. Fired and NCAA discovered over 100 rule violations and Gophers were put on probation.

1977-86 Jim Dutcher guided the program to much success, but resigned in 1986 after 3 players were arrested for sexual assault while boarding the plane the morning after a Wisconsin game. The woman in question identified the players at the airport, but they were officially found not guilty after a few years.

1987-99 Clem Haskins "glory" years in Big Ten an NCAA Final Four. BTN Champs '97, yet resigned in '99 after academic scandal w/scorned Ganglehoff writing hundreds of papers for players. NCAA eliminated 6 seasons, and put MN on 4 yrs probation!

1999-06 Dan Monson took over a program in turmoil (again!), but had 5 winning seasons, 4 NITs, and an NCAA appearance despite lack of scholarships and other restrictions. Recruited well, used smoke and mirrors, but last place finish in '05-06 and '06 losses to Marist, S. Illinois, Montana, Winona St., Iowa St. caused resignation out of fatigue and frustration w/controversies in program.

2009-2013 Tubby Smith took over program in disarray (get the theme?) never finished above .500 in conf. play and was fired after 6 seasons of frustration. Was a huge advocate for construction of the athletic facilities at MN, but never saw the fruits of his labor.

2014-2021 Richard Pitino was brought in from FIU with limited experience, yet his enthusiasm and pedigree, guided MN to early success and optimism. Yet, in his 3rd season the Kevin Lynch sexual assault allegations led to a suspension and a lost season with distraction. He never recovered, and MN got worse leading to his firing in 2021. Pitino was a weak recruiter (esp. MN talent), and never delivered on the "exciting brand" of basketball he promised.

So, MN hired Minnesotan, former Gopher, MN asst. coach, and Xavier asst. Ben Johnson. After all the MN Gopher BB program has been through, I have NO problem when CBJ says he wants to build a program "the right way" with the "right guys". Give the guy a reasonable period of time to do his job before grabbing pitchforks.

Jeepers. . .Kevin Lynch? Reggie ok.

 

[TwistingMyMelon]

This is the right take. The only caveat would be if the team has absolutely quit on him. If it's midseason and we're getting trounced every game - I might make a move. If the team is competing, Ben should get the full season.

Agreed. If he gets his shit together and puts the players in place to minimize the chance of us falling into big deficits early he has a good chance of getting through this year and a fair chance of possibly getting another. The players want to win as much as they can and they will understand if a couple of them get a slight demotion in the interest of the team's success.

 

[jamiche]

I'm going to be optimistic that he will start Christie and Payne tomorrow night, the gophers will win and it will start to build from there.

The reason I don't think Ben is coaching for his job tomorrow night is who would take over for the rest of the season? There's no Molinari on that bench.

 

[Some guy]

The only benefit to a midseason firing would be to audition a different coach on the staff to be the potential replacement. If you don't feel that guy is on the staff then you gain nothing really by firing the coach before the end of the season.

Disagree.
A reason to fire mid season might be to impact the energy level of the team and fan base

 

[BarnBurner]

Yes, I do think he needs to show something this season (like a record over .500 at least) to get a 4th year and I agree that he may well have a harder time next year if Garcia leaves. Nevertheless, he deserved 3 years because other Big Ten coaches with miserable performance records got at least that much and, NO, he shouldn't be fired in mid-season.

Howe is like the biblical snake in the grass. If you follow him, you'll end up like Adam.

Because other big 10 coaches got x, so should Mn coach.

Solid.

 

[TwistingMyMelon]

Because other big 10 coaches got x, so should Mn coach.

Solid.

Yes, that's exactly right. As someone who has had to evaluate many people as part of his professional career, I believe in fairness and conformity to standards and traditions. If you never developed that sense, that's your problem not mine.

 

[Big Dawg]

IF there was potential for Ben to be fired mid-season it has dissipated after last night's victory. He will, at a minimum, last until the end of the season. A few more victories with last night's energy will get him a year 4.

 

[howeda7]

IF there was potential for Ben to be fired mid-season it has dissipated after last night's victory. He will, at a minimum, last until the end of the season. A few more victories with last night's energy will get him a year 4.

As long as they don't step on a rake in the next 4 cupcakes and win at least 1 or 2 of the first 10 conference games, yes.

 

[Bad Gopher]

IF there was potential for Ben to be fired mid-season it has dissipated after last night's victory. He will, at a minimum, last until the end of the season. A few more victories with last night's energy will get him a year 4.

As long as they don't step on a rake in the next 4 cupcakes and win at least 1 or 2 of the first 10 conference games, yes.

Ultimately, any decision should be made based on whether Ben is on track to realize the goals and ambitions Coyle had when he hired him: improve upon the previous coaching regime, who was falling short of what Coyle has staked out as a championship level of performance (whatever that means). Those were the words he used when he dismissed Whalen a year earlier than I expected. Just improving incrementally from the historically bad first couple years of Ben's tenure ought not be enough.