Midseason termination is not a bad thing

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TD12 said:
Should have kept Little Ricky!! Bottom line is Ben is not that good. Perception is reality. Ben looks like he is going through the motions. He has a hard time making adjustments.....or he is stubborn beyond belief.

The worst golfer to play with in a scramble is the guy who says he is a 1 handicap and is really a 10.

Ben seems like a nice guy, but comes off a arrogant beyond with his arms crossed and not making in game adjustments.

TIME TO GO!!
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Nice guy but arrogant??? He is diffident.
 

TD12 said:
Should have kept Little Ricky!! Bottom line is Ben is not that good. Perception is reality. Ben looks like he is going through the motions. He has a hard time making adjustments.....or he is stubborn beyond belief.

The worst golfer to play with in a scramble is the guy who says he is a 1 handicap and is really a 10.

Ben seems like a nice guy, but comes off a arrogant beyond with his arms crossed and not making in game adjustments.

TIME TO GO!!
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They should absolutely not have kept Pitino. They should have hired Smith, Medved, Dutcher or one of many other far more qualified coaches. And that is still what they should do 3 years later.

I don't see where you're getting arrogant. Ben does seem like a nice guy and I'm sure he's doing his best. It's just not good enough.
 

60's Guy said:
Can we all agree Coyle seems to have a hard time selling anything ??
How is he going to convince administration we need pay a $6 million buyout for a men's basketball coach with a last place football team.
Oh by the way I just fired the women's basketball coach I hired a couple of years ago too. But that didn't cost us as much so I think it'll be okay.
Yes, but Mark some people want to fire the football coach if he doesn't win next year....that'll be expensive too.
Let's give Ben one more year. Okay.
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People can scoff, but this is real. I can imagine having to approach the "administration" a second time in a little over a year to replace the second bad hire I've made, at great cost to the school, no less. It's a bad look from every angle. That's part of the reason you have to let this season play out. As Bud Grant always said, don't make a decision until you have to, and the U doesn't have to dump Johnson mid season.

That said, the question I'd ask people here who've been around a while is whether they think it was better that Monson was fired mid-season rather than waiting until the end. The sitautions are similar in a way, but they're very different, too. What I remember is that Molinari more than capably led the team after that. The team improved, and they weren't world beaters by any means, but they were worth watching, and I'm not sure they would've been as watchable with Monson on a slow death march.

If such a thing went down, I do consider Thorson capable of head coaching this team. Heck, he's the guy who had previous head coaching experience.
 

Bad Gopher said:
People can scoff, but this is real. I can imagine having to approach the "administration" a second time in a little over a year to replace the second bad hire I've made, at great cost to the school, no less. It's a bad look from every angle. That's part of the reason you have to let this season play out. As Bud Grant always said, don't make a decision until you have to, and the U doesn't have to dump Johnson mid season.

That said, the question I'd ask people here who've been around a while is whether they think it was better that Monson was fired mid-season rather than waiting until the end. The sitautions are similar in a way, but they're very different, too. What I remember is that Molinari more than capably led the team after that. The team improved, and they weren't world beaters by any means, but they were worth watching, and I'm not sure they would've been as watchable with Monson on a slow death march.

If such a thing went down, I do consider Thorson capable of head coaching this team. Heck, he's the guy who had previous head coaching experience.
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I shouldn't question Bud, but I prefer "what will be done eventually should be done immediately" in this case. We're not there yet, but if/when it becomes clear that 8 + B1G wins isn't happening, it's better to pull the plug if there's a large portion of the season left.
 

howeda7 said:
I shouldn't question Bud, but I prefer "what will be done eventually should be done immediately" in this case. We're not there yet, but if/when it becomes clear that 8 + B1G wins isn't happening, it's better to pull the plug if there's a large portion of the season left.
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It would certainly give Dutcher, Medved and Smith a little lead time to have some conversations with their wives and families about whether they ought to be open to a career move. I'm totally serious about this.
 
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Bad Gopher said:
I would certainly give Dutcher, Medved and Smith a little lead time to have some conversations with their wives and family about whether they ought to be open to a career move. I'm totally serious about this.
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I don't believe we would have gotten Tubby if we'd waited until March to fire Monson. He might have ended up at Michigan or Iowa or in some other conference. Maybe we'd have gotten John B, but probably more likely someone like Todd Licklighter.
 

formerlybis said:
Psst, Nebraska is squarely in the upper half of the B1G this year. They did a nice job of finding some portal pieces to go with Tominaga, including a possible all-conference player in Mast. It's a home game, so there's that, but losing to them would not be the disgrace it would have been in prior years.

The issue with the Gophers not challenging themselves in the noncon (also a failing of CBJ) is that they haven't learned enough on where they need to get better when real teams start coming around. OSU is a good example of a team that figured some things out against good competition. MSU goes through this seemingly every year. Things that work against UNO or Ark PB won't against Nebraska. You'll never know what those things are without facing stiffer tests.
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Yup, I dont care what roster expectations are for a given year, a schedule like our non con this year should be inexcusable.

Ben didnt have to schedule some guantlet where they end up playing 5 top 15 teams before mid December. But good lord there is a clear middle ground that he could achieve schedule wise.
 

howeda7 said:
I don't believe we would have gotten Tubby if we'd waited until March to fire Monson. He might have ended up at Michigan or Iowa or in some other conference. Maybe we'd have gotten John B, but probably more likely someone like Todd Licklighter.
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Art Linkletter maybe? 🤔
 

Midseason?? Seems doubtful.

I mean, I GUESS he could survive that long. Miracle survival tales happen sometimes.
 




USAF said:
Midseason?? Seems doubtful.

I mean, I GUESS he could survive that long. Miracle survival tales happen sometimes.
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Pitino had 9 lives. Ben just needs Coyle to pull a mega-tongue or another global pandemic. Both probably more likely than winning 8 + B1G games.
 

howeda7 said:
I disagree. It gets the toxic air out of the building and lets everyone know change is coming. It was good Monson was dismissed midseason and they played better and harder for Coach Mo than they would have for him. I'm not sure there's a good interim on the staff but we can see what Thorsen is I guess.
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How do we know the toxic environment is coming from the other Coaches?
 




howeda7 said:
I didn't say it was? I'm talking about toxic environment around the program/fan base from leaving a dead coach walking to play out the string.
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I didn't say you said it..... just saying it could be the other coaches as well
 

Gopherbbdude said:
I didn't say you said it..... just saying it could be the other coaches as well
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They certainly aren't helping it seems. But getting the team to play better is only part of the reason to make a mid-season change. There's also giving the fan base hope in knowing change is coming and allowing yourself to start back channeling the replacement. The later two are more important IMO.
 

I'm as down on this program as anybody, but I still don't believe he will be fired mid-season unless he starts losing to some of the remaining trash programs on the non-conference schedule or the team quits on him. I think both are unlikely. My biggest fear is we win about six conference games and that is considered "progress". Enough progress to justify another year.
 

golfing18now said:
I'm as down on this program as anybody, but I still don't believe he will be fired mid-season unless he starts losing to some of the remaining trash programs on the non-conference schedule or the team quits on him. I think both are unlikely. My biggest fear is we win about six conference games and that is considered "progress". Enough progress to justify another year.
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I think the 6-7 win purgatory thing is a very real possibility.
 

Bad Gopher said:
People can scoff, but this is real. I can imagine having to approach the "administration" a second time in a little over a year to replace the second bad hire I've made, at great cost to the school, no less. It's a bad look from every angle. That's part of the reason you have to let this season play out. As Bud Grant always said, don't make a decision until you have to, and the U doesn't have to dump Johnson mid season.

That said, the question I'd ask people here who've been around a while is whether they think it was better that Monson was fired mid-season rather than waiting until the end. The sitautions are similar in a way, but they're very different, too. What I remember is that Molinari more than capably led the team after that. The team improved, and they weren't world beaters by any means, but they were worth watching, and I'm not sure they would've been as watchable with Monson on a slow death march.

If such a thing went down, I do consider Thorson capable of head coaching this team. Heck, he's the guy who had previous head coaching experience.
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I think waiting until the end of the season is just punishing season ticket holders. With a midseason firing, you at least have the appearance of acknowledging the utter futility of a coach floundering with his position.

You have to do the cost-benefit analysis. Will the number of season tickets lost, regardless of replacement sales, be a number greater than or equal to 75% of the buyout?

That number, the people who have given up season tickets in the last 3 years, should tell you the impact CBJ has had. There are always opportunists who want to get their season tickets started while the team is down and will tolerate a down year or two because they view the long run to have an upside. That is why new season ticket sales during the previous three years should be ignored.
 
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Ewert86PC said:
I think waiting until the end of the season is just punishing season ticket holders. With a midseason firing, you at least have the appearance of acknowledging the utter futility of a coach floundering with his position.

You have to do the cost-benefit analysis. Will the number of season tickets lost, regardless of replacement sales, be a number greater than or equal to 75% of the buyout?

That number, the people who have given up season tickets in the last 3 years, should tell you the impact CBJ has had. There are always opportunists who want to get their season tickets started while the team is down and will tolerate a down year or two because they view the long run to have an upside. That is why sales during the previous three years should be ignored.
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You must also view it against the change in buyout from this year to next, not the entire thing. If we drag it out until 2025, the buyout will still exist and be $3-4 million. So you're only saving ~$2 million by bringing back dead coach walking next year. 2,000 season tickets next year vs (at least) 6,000 with a new coach makes that up pretty easily.
 

Not arrogance but looks like deer in the head lights.
 

Bad Gopher said:
People can scoff, but this is real. I can imagine having to approach the "administration" a second time in a little over a year to replace the second bad hire I've made, at great cost to the school, no less. It's a bad look from every angle. That's part of the reason you have to let this season play out. As Bud Grant always said, don't make a decision until you have to, and the U doesn't have to dump Johnson mid season.

That said, the question I'd ask people here who've been around a while is whether they think it was better that Monson was fired mid-season rather than waiting until the end. The sitautions are similar in a way, but they're very different, too. What I remember is that Molinari more than capably led the team after that. The team improved, and they weren't world beaters by any means, but they were worth watching, and I'm not sure they would've been as watchable with Monson on a slow death march.

If such a thing went down, I do consider Thorson capable of head coaching this team. Heck, he's the guy who had previous head coaching experience.
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Bad Gopher said:
People can scoff, but this is real. I can imagine having to approach the "administration" a second time in a little over a year to replace the second bad hire I've made, at great cost to the school, no less. It's a bad look from every angle. That's part of the reason you have to let this season play out. As Bud Grant always said, don't make a decision until you have to, and the U doesn't have to dump Johnson mid season.

That said, the question I'd ask people here who've been around a while is whether they think it was better that Monson was fired mid-season rather than waiting until the end. The sitautions are similar in a way, but they're very different, too. What I remember is that Molinari more than capably led the team after that. The team improved, and they weren't world beaters by any means, but they were worth watching, and I'm not sure they would've been as watchable with Monson on a slow death march.

If such a thing went down, I do consider Thorson capable of head coaching this team. Heck, he's the guy who had previous head coaching experience.
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They don’t have to dump him mid season but if they determine by then he’s a failure and plan to do it they dang sure better be putting a short list of candidates together by then.
 

One thing about a midseason termination is it may limit your candidate pool in a way. Let's say Niko Medved has a great season at CSU where they are ranked in the top 25 all season. Johnson is fired in February. CSU is having their best season in history and Niko starts getting asked over and over about the Minnesota job as he looks like the clear frontunner. Maybe he's not comfortable pulling a Saban and saying he's staying when he's not. He makes a statement saying he's aware of the opening at his alma mater, but he's got a great thing going at CSU. Now our season isn't even over yet and we've been turned down by a mid major coach. The optics are terrible. This could start a dominio effect like the Pitino hire where guys we didn't even interview had their agents drop Minnesota interest (Fleck style) to get their current employer to extend them. Now we're getting turned down by 5,6,7 guys and the Reusse's of the world are writing columns and the process becomes a laughing stock.

Not saying this is a likely scenario and I could seen benefits to a mid season termination, just something to consider. Also there might be a benefit to letting the decision maker (Coyle or whoever) work in relative secrecy to gauge interest so we have a candidate ready to announce a day or two after Johnson is actually fired as opposed to having months where a hire can't be made and having a bunch of public speculation.
 

I think attendance will end up being the deciding factor. Sid had an article after Monson left. Muturi wouldn't admit it, but it made money sense at the time. And Muturi started spending more time with the team, went down to Orlando to watch them. Monson started having moments that were "out of character"

After 5 Big Ten games, Iowa at Williams on Monday, 1/15(MLK day) & Wisconsin at Williams on Tuesday 1/23 Could we see more visiting fans than Maroon & Gold? May have caught a break, both are scheduled during the week. Let's fix it...Just win
 

EG#9 said:
One thing about a midseason termination is it may limit your candidate pool in a way. Let's say Niko Medved has a great season at CSU where they are ranked in the top 25 all season. Johnson is fired in February. CSU is having their best season in history and Niko starts getting asked over and over about the Minnesota job as he looks like the clear frontunner. Maybe he's not comfortable pulling a Saban and saying he's staying when he's not. He makes a statement saying he's aware of the opening at his alma mater, but he's got a great thing going at CSU. Now our season isn't even over yet and we've been turned down by a mid major coach. The optics are terrible. This could start a dominio effect like the Pitino hire where guys we didn't even interview had their agents drop Minnesota interest (Fleck style) to get their current employer to extend them. Now we're getting turned down by 5,6,7 guys and the Reusse's of the world are writing columns and the process becomes a laughing stock.

Not saying this is a likely scenario and I could seen benefits to a mid season termination, just something to consider. Also there might be a benefit to letting the decision maker (Coyle or whoever) work in relative secrecy to gauge interest so we have a candidate ready to announce a day or two after Johnson is actually fired as opposed to having months where a hire can't be made and having a bunch of public speculation.
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Meh. I think that over estimates how much non -MN media would care to ask him about that. He might get asked once, he can firmly say he's not thinking about anything but his team and he won't likely be asked again. It's not like it's the Kentucky job.

And I think the second scenario is more problematic. Coaches don't like AD's sneaking around behind the back of coaches who are still employed. If Ben is out, at least back channels can be made with agents. They won't talk to you about a job that's not open.
 

howeda7 said:
Meh. I think that over estimates how much non -MN media would care to ask him about that. He might get asked once, he can firmly say he's not thinking about anything but his team and he won't likely be asked again. It's not like it's the Kentucky job.

And I think the second scenario is more problematic. Coaches don't like AD's sneaking around behind the back of coaches who are still employed. If Ben is out, at least back channels can be made with agents. They won't talk to you about a job that's not open.
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I was actually thinking more about the CSU media asking him as this could shape up to be like their best season in program history.

I am probably over thinking it, was just trying to present a case why it may be a better idea to wait. I am not sure if I'd prefer moving on in January/February or moving on at the end of year.
 


GopherWeatherGuy said:
Ben isn't getting another year and they likely won't have to pay him 6 million. Also the football team didn't finish last.

Ben isn't getting fired midseason either, unless they start 0-10 in the B1G.
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Thread could have been closed after this post
 

in practical terms - what does a mid-season firing accomplish?

on the plus side, it lets candidates know the job is open and allows agents to begin back-channel negotiations while maintaining plausible deniability for their clients.

on the flip side - who coaches the team for the rest of the season? You have:

Dave Thorson - about 6 years as a college assistant after spending most of his career as a HS coach.

,Jason Kemp - has been an assistant at Ohio, Toledo, North Dakota State and William & Mary.

Marcus Jenkins - assistant at Richmond and Princeton.

Josh Adel - former Video Coordinator with 3 years as an assistant coach. started as a team manager with Florida.

not exactly a Murderer's Row of options.
 

EG#9 said:
I was actually thinking more about the CSU media asking him as this could shape up to be like their best season in program history.

I am probably over thinking it, was just trying to present a case why it may be a better idea to wait. I am not sure if I'd prefer moving on in January/February or moving on at the end of year.
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"CSU media" is probably one or two beat writers. Like Marcus Fuller with Ben, they're not going to want to piss him off. If he's having the best season in team history he'll have lots of job rumors around. They'd likely ask him about it once when the firing is announced and that would be the end of it.
 

EG#9 said:
One thing about a midseason termination is it may limit your candidate pool in a way. Let's say Niko Medved has a great season at CSU where they are ranked in the top 25 all season. Johnson is fired in February. CSU is having their best season in history and Niko starts getting asked over and over about the Minnesota job as he looks like the clear frontunner. Maybe he's not comfortable pulling a Saban and saying he's staying when he's not. He makes a statement saying he's aware of the opening at his alma mater, but he's got a great thing going at CSU. Now our season isn't even over yet and we've been turned down by a mid major coach. The optics are terrible. This could start a dominio effect like the Pitino hire where guys we didn't even interview had their agents drop Minnesota interest (Fleck style) to get their current employer to extend them. Now we're getting turned down by 5,6,7 guys and the Reusse's of the world are writing columns and the process becomes a laughing stock.
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...and then everyone dies. ;)
 

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