media would rip brew for kill's comment

[Calgoph]

is : 1) A device employed, often illegally, to cheat, deceive, or trick, a mechanism for the secret control of a gambling wheel or other apparatus.


2) A strategem or scheme employed to promote a project : an advertising gimmick

3) A significant feature that is obscured or misrepresented; catch

4) A trivial or unnecessary innovation , as a gadget, added to enhance appeal

5) A small object whose name eludes one.


Definition of strategem ( A millitary maneuver designed to deceive or surprise an enemy. A deception)

I feel that calling Coach Kill a man who uses gimmicks continuously is not correct in any way. I feel that the word gimmick is associated with dishonesty and misleading people purposely. I feel that he is a very honest person who is not trying to portray himself as something he is not. Thats why he is successful and is why all of his staff is very loyal to him and why the fans at schools he has been at still have the highest regard for him to this day.

Rose and DPOL and Killjoy, please explain your negative selves and your know-it-all generalizations about ALL COACHES use gimmicks.

Good post. I agree completely. To me a gimmick is something that is deceptive or something that is used to gain attention while being unrelated to anything relevant (like wearing a funny hat or driving a Wienermobile so people will remember you or your product).

Up to a point, repeating words and phrases that are honest and have resonated positively in the past is just good salesmanship and is nowhere close to being a gimmick. Although, I wish he would drop the "to be honest with you" as it implies he has been something other than honest in the past. It's better to just say "frankly."

 

[fencejumpers]

Interesting discussion. I think Bob Loblaw and Dpodoll really have cut to the heart of the issue and made good points. I will say that while I understand what the definition of gimmick is, it still resonates with a negative (disingenous) connotation. I find Kill to be on the high end of "genuine" amongst college football coaches (and really like him), but to believe that all of his statements to the public are simply "straight talking" is being a little naive.

I think there is one thing some people forget in this discussion. When you consider how many times Kill (and Brewster) is interviewed, has to speak, and under the microscope, and then consider it is their job to both "motivate" your team and "sell" where the program is going, there is going to be a lot of repetition and personal phrasing that is tough to avoid. Imagine if all of your conversations were taped over a months time and then think of the words, phrases, mannerisms that could get picked apart.

 

[Monty519]

I think there is one thing some people forget in this discussion. When you consider how many times Kill (and Brewster) is interviewed, has to speak, and under the microscope, and then consider it is their job to both "motivate" your team and "sell" where the program is going, there is going to be a lot of repetition and personal phrasing that is tough to avoid. Imagine if all of your conversations were taped over a months time and then think of the words, phrases, mannerisms that could get picked apart.

Bingo. When you're addressing 20 difference audiences a month, most of whom aren't visiting a website daily that provides links to all 20 of these addresses, you're gonna find themes and ideas that are repeated, probably in all 20 of them. You can't provide 20 different messages to 20 different groups, then you just sound like you don't know what you want (sound familiar LOL?). Kill knows exactly what he wants, how he wants it, and what he wants to do to get it, so a lot of what he's gonna say is gonna be repetitive.

On the whole "gimmick" thing, I guess I never exclusively associated the word to with dishonesty and deception. I don't feel like Kill is doing that by any means, nor do I feel like the majority of what Brewster was doing was either. I've heard rumblings that GL is alluding to, but I don't know the man, I'm not gonna judge his outright character. But I don't feel like the tactics he used to sell this program were full of deception. He just sucked at his job, that's it lol.

 

[dpodoll68]

How was Reusse (or myself?) off on that comment at all?

First off, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe Reusse ever attacked Brewster's character.

Secondly, stating that someone lacks character is a very serious accusation. Saying that someone is disingenuous or a prick does not mean that they lack character. I've known a lot of a-holes in my life, but very few that are of poor character. It seems as though you are trying to equate the two. A lack of character veers off into the "cheating on his wife, kicking puppies, punching babies, stealing cars, etc." territory. A serious claim such as that needs a little more substantiation than "he was a big meanie-head to subordinates and recruits".

 

[Word]

You're right, who am I? Just someone that actually intereacted with him, knew and talked to many people that dealt with him on a daily basis, and knew the the interactions that many recruits (and their families) would tell me about him. But I'm sure you have more insider info on him.

Unless you're going to give us some facts/stories, stop making the accusations. If you have all this info, then share it. If it's just going to be vague references, then keep them to yourself. For all I know, you might be 100% correct, but unless you're going to provide the facts I think it's best to not say anything at all.

 

[Ogee Ogilthorpe]

You're

That's because people like myself have kept it to ourselves, for the team, our school and to look better. Trust me, there are MANY that would question his character.

If that was the case, I would have the same feeling for Coach Monson as I do for Brew. Both didn't meet expectations on the court or field - but have you ever seen me say a harsh word about Monson's character? No. That has nothing do do with wins and losses, but the fact that this may not have been the best fit for him, but he's a good man.

Duly noted. I certainly have no problem conceding that I have never met the man or interacted with him on any level. I defer to those that have.

I will say that very few, if any, people who have elevated themselves to any level of prominence in this world are "wart-free". When you fail, those warts seem to be a lot more noticeable than had you been successful.

 

[DMB123]

People get way to caught up on the word gimmick. They are not bad or good. They can be either. I have no problem if someone hates Brewster or loves kill. But if your primary reason for hating Brewster was his gimmicks or cliches...then you are an idiot. If your primary reason for liking kill is his lack of gimmicks or cliches....then you are an idiot.That's all I'm saying.
For the record, I didn't like Brewster as a coach and I did like his schtick.
For the record, I'm cautiously optimistic about kill and I don't really like his schtick (I actually don't dislike his schtick either, but I do dislike the way everyone seems to be slurping it).

One of the dumbest things I've ever read on this board. My primary reason for not liking Brew was his gimmicks and schtick, and my primary reason for liking Kill is his lack of anything that seems gimmicky. I'm not an idiot for thinking that.

You Brewster defenders continue to try and paint Kill as not being that different than Brew when it comes to gimmicks, cliches, or schtick. The problem with that is the two couldn't be more different. The main difference between the two is that if Kill loses he'll lose without embarrassing the University the way Brewster did constantly.

 

[dpodoll68]

One of the dumbest things I've ever read on this board. My primary reason for not liking Brew was his gimmicks and schtick, and my primary reason for liking Kill is his lack of anything that seems gimmicky. I'm not an idiot for thinking that.

You Brewster defenders continue to try and paint Kill as not being that different than Brew when it comes to gimmicks, cliches, or schtick. The problem with that is the two couldn't be more different. The main difference between the two is that if Kill loses he'll lose without embarrassing the University the way Brewster did constantly.

If Brewster had won a Rose Bowl, would you hate him? Would he have been "embarrassing" to the University? If you say "yes" to either question, you are a filthy liar. It would be difficult to have less respect for your opinion than I already do, but it is possible if you can't even admit this simple truth.

 

[Maximus]

If Brewster had won a Rose Bowl,

Impressive! Losing an argument within the first 7 words of your paragraph.

 

[dpodoll68]

Impressive! Losing an argument within the first 7 words of your paragraph.

How is that losing an argument? That's the entire nexus of my argument. The reason some hate Brewster is because he lost a lot. Period. No one would care or ever say anything about his "embarrassing" "antics" had he won championships. It's a scapegoat. Brewster and Jim Harbaugh are basically the same person, with one difference - Harbaugh is successful and won a lot of games. How many complaints did you hear coming out of Palo Alto about Harbaugh's abrasive and braggadocious personality?

 

[Rosemountian]

To be fair I bet Stanford fans might be smarter than gopher fans.

 

[imthewalrus]

The obnoxious part of the failed brewball fiasco was the...

administration that CREATED brewball and hired a complete loser and unqualified candidate for the coaching position that the administration advertised for and recruited at the end of 2006 beginning of 2007. That is right: the completely unacceptable administrators, prexy b and bjm need to be held accountable for what they did with this hire. brewster was abrasive and obnoxious and lacking in social graces and was also completely incompetent as a gm/recruiter. Howver, HE is NOT responsible for the fact that the incompetent administrators actually hired him and put him in the position to totally fail. THAT was the complete responsibility of badger joel macturi and prexy b. THEY displayed total incompetence with the brewster hire. The darn fools even extended him at the end of his third season. prexy b and bjm alone are completely responsible for all of the incompetence that brewster displayed, all the failure he achieved and all lack of character he put on public display. He was just another one of those obnoxious "joisey boyz" that a responsible administrator would never even consider leaving alone in an office with empty glass trophy cases IF he was moving out after having been fired...THANK GOD prexy b and bjm never would have been that foolish... ; 0 )That "joisey boyz" less than classy act just wouldn't EVER cut it with the media or long-time or fans capable of judging lack of character when they experience it. That brewster used to just coach with his hair on fire while he flopped on the ground like a fish out of water and tried to spout Rose Bowl when he promptly went 0-8 in Big Ten play. Man, I get SO upset with prexy b and bjm for EVER exposing me and other long-time season ticket holders to someone as obnoxious and as incompetent as that brewster clown. I don't get angry with brewster...only the fools who hired him... ; 0 (

Gopher Lady should not be attacked by the likes of a dopodoll for just expressing her impressions of the person of questionable qualifications for a University of Minnesota coach overseeing student athletes. Of course, she expresses herself in a much more believable and human way than her attacker, dopodoll does... Thank you for expressing your concerns Gopher Lady! I think you are 100% right on the money GL.

 

[Rosemountian]

One of the dumbest things I've ever read on this board. My primary reason for not liking Brew was his gimmicks and schtick, and my primary reason for liking Kill is his lack of anything that seems gimmicky. I'm not an idiot for thinking that.

You Brewster defenders continue to try and paint Kill as not being that different than Brew when it comes to gimmicks, cliches, or schtick. The problem with that is the two couldn't be more different. The main difference between the two is that if Kill loses he'll lose without embarrassing the University the way Brewster did constantly.

Brewster defender? Did you really just call me that?

Obviously you do not pay attention to this board much. Thanks for confirming you are an idiot though.

 

[fryguy22]

blah blah blah.....

I think we should create a "wren thread" ....then at least his responses in THAT thread would pertain to the topic at hand in some way

 

[Killjoy]

Rosemountain - It Could Be Worse

Brewster defender? Did you really just call me that?

Obviously you do not pay attention to this board much. Thanks for confirming you are an idiot though.

Back in the days when Brewster was still the coach, if you said anything that could be construed as remotely positive the result would be that wren would label you a Brewster apologist. It didn't even require that Brewster was being discussed. The next thing wren would do is begin espousing his hatred of Brewster and his love of Mason.

That is because Wren is one crazy deluded person who feels it is his duty to makes it impossible to have a rational conversation. This is why he has been banned multiple times at mutiple football blogs. The truth is that if he not banned here again he will still be espousing his hatred of Brewster and his love of Mason to us for the rest of his life.

This guy believes that we should suffer his wrath for our sins of being so called Brewster apologists. For the record, I don't consider myself anywhere near being a Brewster apologist. I always felt that Brewster may very likely not be the solution. From wren's viewpoint my sin was that I didn't say that Brewster was the devil and that Mason and Weber were saints. For this sin wren is punishing us by his insessent amount of babbling and ranting of his personal agenda. Wren has made it clear he will continue to do this until he is banned again. We are truly in purgatory.

 

[alchemy2u]

I really dislike posts such as this. It's just negative, serves no purpose.

+100%

Wow, it didn't take long for a small group to start criticizing our new coach! He hasn't even been here to coach a game yet and you guys are trying to discredit him and his approach to coaching. You should all turn in your M sweatshirts and be forced to wear red and white striped sweaters!

You can try to find selective definitions to justify using a term that is normally associated with deception, but it just won't work.

All people are salesman in just about everything we do and most of it is positive in nature. Many of us had to sell our wife's on the idea of marrying us (how is that for a Killism?).

And lay off of GL, I am sure if she feels that the last guy was not a eagle scout she had some reasons for it. She is entitled to her opinion and doesn't need to justify it with documented facts.

So... These aren't the droids you are looking for, you can go about your business, move along.

Let us get onto a real topic.

 

[Rosemountian]

It isn't criticism. At least not of the coach. It is commentary. Isn't this a message board?

Edit:
I just got a PM from D(u)MB123.....he called me an internet tough guy and asked if I was as tough in person.
I did get a good laugh from the whole deal though, so I guess that is a positive.

 

[josh087]

administration that CREATED brewball and hired a complete loser and unqualified candidate for the coaching position that the administration advertised for and recruited at the end of 2006 beginning of 2007. That is right: the completely unacceptable administrators, prexy b and bjm need to be held accountable for what they did with this hire. brewster was abrasive and obnoxious and lacking in social graces and was also completely incompetent as a gm/recruiter. Howver, HE is NOT responsible for the fact that the incompetent administrators actually hired him and put him in the position to totally fail. THAT was the complete responsibility of badger joel macturi and prexy b. THEY displayed total incompetence with the brewster hire. The darn fools even extended him at the end of his third season. prexy b and bjm alone are completely responsible for all of the incompetence that brewster displayed, all the failure he achieved and all lack of character he put on public display. He was just another one of those obnoxious "joisey boyz" that a responsible administrator would never even consider leaving alone in an office with empty glass trophy cases IF he was moving out after having been fired...THANK GOD prexy b and bjm never would have been that foolish... ; 0 )That "joisey boyz" less than classy act just wouldn't EVER cut it with the media or long-time or fans capable of judging lack of character when they experience it. That brewster used to just coach with his hair on fire while he flopped on the ground like a fish out of water and tried to spout Rose Bowl when he promptly went 0-8 in Big Ten play. Man, I get SO upset with prexy b and bjm for EVER exposing me and other long-time season ticket holders to someone as obnoxious and as incompetent as that brewster clown. I don't get angry with brewster...only the fools who hired him... ; 0 (

Gopher Lady should not be attacked by the likes of a dopodoll for just expressing her impressions of the person of questionable qualifications for a University of Minnesota coach overseeing student athletes. Of course, she expresses herself in a much more believable and human way than her attacker, dopodoll does... Thank you for expressing your concerns Gopher Lady! I think you are 100% right on the money GL.

Part of me still holds out hope that the idea of Wren (Wayne, Renegade Rambler, iamthewalrus) is all really one big, elaborate con - and someday he (or she) will show up at a tailgate party and reveal themself to be a cool, hip dude who totally loves all things related to grilling, drinking, laughing-at-the-simpleton-compared-to-my-accomplishment-kelly leeks-fake-death-ploy..., and Gopher Sports. And the whole time, the Gopherhole persona of this bitter, dilusional, paragraph-repeating old-timer was really just all a brilliant deception by the man (or woman) who just might have pulled off the greatest internet message board hoax of all time.

 

[imthewalrus]

kelly leeks...I met him once at the halftime get-together...

of some people who used to post...of course, that was long before he went to the dark side and eventually blew his mind out in a car...or so the story goes.




; 0 )

 

[Killjoy]

Wren

You and congressman Weiner suffer from the same problem. You both are very deluded and confused about your own behavior. In your own mind you see yourself as just a good old guy who is telling the truth and has perfected his slick. It just ain’t so wren and long boring self-congratulating posts won’t make it so.