Maybe we should start to accept that we are not landing any of the "big three"....

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Maybe we should start to accept that we are not landing any of the "big three"....

So I was with some friends at the Wolves/Moscow game - barnburner huh? - we got on the topic of the local big three in this years recruiting class. One of the guys in our group was a Gophers season ticket holder and a pretty passionate fan, how passionate? He got up and left the game during the first half angry and upset after a thirty some minute debate after I threw reality in this face, and he wasn't even drunk.

He had this belief that Rich Pitino is going to be like Steve Fisher and he's going to pull off some magical Fab Five class. He was serious. I think it's great that there are some passionate Gopher fans around town, but delusional?

Before he abruptly left the game, he said that if the Pitino didn't land any of the three that the U's image and basketball program will be permenatly destroyed. Because it will show how "un-hip" Minnesota is to the basketball nation by not landing three of it's own hometown players and it will damage our brand for years.

I laughed and threw this reality at him.

Jones and Vaughn will most likely be one and done, with Jones - and Reid - going to Duke. I think Vaughn goes to Iowa St, thats my opinion though.

I think Rich Pitinos system or style isn't built for "one and done" players, so you can cross Jones and Vaughn off the list. I love the Gophers and I'm a die hard fan but I can honestly say if I had a chance to go to Duke and play for Coach K, I would do it in a heartbeat. And I think the Gophers can't compete with Coach K right now, so off goes Reid.

Will this set our program back years. No. I honestly believe Rich Pitino is something special and in my blind die hard faith I think he will get this program back to the Sweet Sixteens and maybe beyond. But opinion or not, I know the "big three" won't be wearing Maroon and Gold next winter and I think some Gopher fans should start realizing and accepting that...
 


Sounds like you two are great friends. I strongly disagree and think there is still a reasonable chance of landing Rashad and/or Reid.

Also....

Jessica Alba Fan Club said:
I think Rich Pitinos system or style isn't built for "one and done" players, so you can cross Jones and Vaughn off the list.
Click to expand...

What??
 


Still a good shot at landing either Vaughn or Travis, but I don't think we will get both. I don't think Vaughn will go to ISU though, it will either be us, Kansas or the runnin rebs. If Duke lands Looney than I believe Travis is ours and I think he's a four year player. I truly believe we will get Reid Travis and I think he's a four year guy. A class of Morris, Reid and Martin would be pretty good class IMO. Who knows who the fourth will be, but I do agree with you that missing on all three won't ruin the program considering Pitino's late start.
 


Jessica Alba Fan Club said:
So I was with some friends at the Wolves/Moscow game - barnburner huh? - we got on the topic of the local big three in this years recruiting class. One of the guys in our group was a Gophers season ticket holder and a pretty passionate fan, how passionate? He got up and left the game during the first half angry and upset after a thirty some minute debate after I threw reality in this face, and he wasn't even drunk.

He had this belief that Rich Pitino is going to be like Steve Fisher and he's going to pull off some magical Fab Five class. He was serious. I think it's great that there are some passionate Gopher fans around town, but delusional?

Before he abruptly left the game, he said that if the Pitino didn't land any of the three that the U's image and basketball program will be permenatly destroyed. Because it will show how "un-hip" Minnesota is to the basketball nation by not landing three of it's own hometown players and it will damage our brand for years.

I laughed and threw this reality at him.

Jones and Vaughn will most likely be one and done, with Jones - and Reid - going to Duke. I think Vaughn goes to Iowa St, thats my opinion though.

I think Rich Pitinos system or style isn't built for "one and done" players, so you can cross Jones and Vaughn off the list. I love the Gophers and I'm a die hard fan but I can honestly say if I had a chance to go to Duke and play for Coach K, I would do it in a heartbeat. And I think the Gophers can't compete with Coach K right now, so off goes Reid.

Will this set our program back years. No. I honestly believe Rich Pitino is something special and in my blind die hard faith I think he will get this program back to the Sweet Sixteens and maybe beyond. But opinion or not, I know the "big three" won't be wearing Maroon and Gold next winter and I think some Gopher fans should start realizing and accepting that...
Click to expand...

Your "reality" is no more valid than his. I don't understand the rush to claim "he's not coming here" as if there is some prize for being first. It doesn't make you look smart, it makes you look like you have a low opinion of Minnesota and don't expect great things from the University. It's like "I want to let myself down before someone/something else can let me down". The Gophers don't have a shot at Tyus, he's basically said as much by saying the package deal with Okafor is going to happen. Coach Pitino and Coach Young were just in Vegas LAST NIGHT. They aren't flying to Vegas for window dressing, they have a shot at Rashad who is not going to make a decision until Spring. As for Reid, the Gophers are getting his last official visit, that's always a good sign with any recruit.

The program certainly won't be destroyed if Pitino goes "0-3", but it's certainly not a good thing. Part of the reason Tubby was fired was his current standing with the Big 3 and the increasing likelihood of him missing out on all 3. This program badly needs to establish itself as a school that A. Is putting players in to the NBA and B. Remains attractive/becomes more attractive to the standout kids from in state. Rashad Vaughn coming to the "U" for a year and then becoming a first round pick would be huge for the program.

Pitino will continue to recruit Rashad and Reid hard....Maybe we should get behind his efforts instead of laying down and accepting defeat?
 

First...Is it too late to join the Jessica Alba fan club?

Second....I agree with everything you said.
 

EG#9 said:
Your "reality" is no more valid than his. I don't understand the rush to claim "he's not coming here" as if there is some prize for being first. It doesn't make you look smart, it makes you look like you have a low opinion of Minnesota and don't expect great things from the University. It's like "I want to let myself down before someone/something else can let me down". The Gophers don't have a shot at Tyus, he's basically said as much by saying the package deal with Okafor is going to happen. Coach Pitino and Coach Young were just in Vegas LAST NIGHT. They aren't flying to Vegas for window dressing, they have a shot at Rashad who is not going to make a decision until Spring. As for Reid, the Gophers are getting his last official visit, that's always a good sign with any recruit.

The program certainly won't be destroyed if Pitino goes "0-3", but it's certainly not a good thing. Part of the reason Tubby was fired was his current standing with the Big 3 and the increasing likelihood of him missing out on all 3. This program badly needs to establish itself as a school that A. Is putting players in to the NBA and B. Remains attractive/becomes more attractive to the standout kids from in state. Rashad Vaughn coming to the "U" for a year and then becoming a first round pick would be huge for the program.

Pitino will continue to recruit Rashad and Reid hard....Maybe we should get behind his efforts instead of laying down and accepting defeat?
Click to expand...

+ 1000
 





Everytime a girl rejects my advances, I sulk and think the same thing. I can't get a girl and I don't think the Big 3 will come to Minnesota. F M LIFE.
 

EG#9 said:
Your "reality" is no more valid than his. I don't understand the rush to claim "he's not coming here" as if there is some prize for being first. It doesn't make you look smart, it makes you look like you have a low opinion of Minnesota and don't expect great things from the University. It's like "I want to let myself down before someone/something else can let me down". The Gophers don't have a shot at Tyus, he's basically said as much by saying the package deal with Okafor is going to happen. Coach Pitino and Coach Young were just in Vegas LAST NIGHT. They aren't flying to Vegas for window dressing, they have a shot at Rashad who is not going to make a decision until Spring. As for Reid, the Gophers are getting his last official visit, that's always a good sign with any recruit.

The program certainly won't be destroyed if Pitino goes "0-3", but it's certainly not a good thing. Part of the reason Tubby was fired was his current standing with the Big 3 and the increasing likelihood of him missing out on all 3. This program badly needs to establish itself as a school that A. Is putting players in to the NBA and B. Remains attractive/becomes more attractive to the standout kids from in state. Rashad Vaughn coming to the "U" for a year and then becoming a first round pick would be huge for the program.

Pitino will continue to recruit Rashad and Reid hard....Maybe we should get behind his efforts instead of laying down and accepting defeat?
Click to expand...

He would have been fired regardless.
 

While I missing on all three is what will probably happen, I do think the Gophers have an outside shot at landing Reid or Vaughn.
 



station19 said:
He would have been fired regardless.
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That's why he said part of the reason. I agree with EG's perspective. We are recruiting other wings right now - it's crucial for our coaches to gauge his level of interest and to sell our program. As enticing as it is to talk about Vaughn's recruitment, we're still several months away. Too much can still change.
 

EG#9 said:
Your "reality" is no more valid than his. I don't understand the rush to claim "he's not coming here" as if there is some prize for being first. It doesn't make you look smart, it makes you look like you have a low opinion of Minnesota and don't expect great things from the University. It's like "I want to let myself down before someone/something else can let me down". The Gophers don't have a shot at Tyus, he's basically said as much by saying the package deal with Okafor is going to happen. Coach Pitino and Coach Young were just in Vegas LAST NIGHT. They aren't flying to Vegas for window dressing, they have a shot at Rashad who is not going to make a decision until Spring. As for Reid, the Gophers are getting his last official visit, that's always a good sign with any recruit.

The program certainly won't be destroyed if Pitino goes "0-3", but it's certainly not a good thing. Part of the reason Tubby was fired was his current standing with the Big 3 and the increasing likelihood of him missing out on all 3. This program badly needs to establish itself as a school that A. Is putting players in to the NBA and B. Remains attractive/becomes more attractive to the standout kids from in state. Rashad Vaughn coming to the "U" for a year and then becoming a first round pick would be huge for the program.

Pitino will continue to recruit Rashad and Reid hard....Maybe we should get behind his efforts instead of laying down and accepting defeat?
Click to expand...

I agree with much of this post, but to suggest that Tubby was fired because of his standing with recruits is just not true.

Why do people get so worked up about landing elite talent that happens to live in Minnesota and consider it so devastating if we don't? Did anybody care that Bobby Jackson wasn't from here? Or Willie Burton? Or Voshon Lenard?

Did Kris Humphries landing at the University fundamentally change how Minnesota high school kids view this school? Or Royce White? Or Rodney Williams?

It doesn't matter as long as you get players.
 

EG#9 said:
Your "reality" is no more valid than his. I don't understand the rush to claim "he's not coming here" as if there is some prize for being first. It doesn't make you look smart, it makes you look like you have a low opinion of Minnesota and don't expect great things from the University. It's like "I want to let myself down before someone/something else can let me down". The Gophers don't have a shot at Tyus, he's basically said as much by saying the package deal with Okafor is going to happen. Coach Pitino and Coach Young were just in Vegas LAST NIGHT. They aren't flying to Vegas for window dressing, they have a shot at Rashad who is not going to make a decision until Spring. As for Reid, the Gophers are getting his last official visit, that's always a good sign with any recruit.

The program certainly won't be destroyed if Pitino goes "0-3", but it's certainly not a good thing. Part of the reason Tubby was fired was his current standing with the Big 3 and the increasing likelihood of him missing out on all 3. This program badly needs to establish itself as a school that A. Is putting players in to the NBA and B. Remains attractive/becomes more attractive to the standout kids from in state. Rashad Vaughn coming to the "U" for a year and then becoming a first round pick would be huge for the program.

Pitino will continue to recruit Rashad and Reid hard....Maybe we should get behind his efforts instead of laying down and accepting defeat?
Click to expand...

I was with you until this part. First of all, you have no idea that had anything to do with the decision. I imagine wins and losses had a ton more to do with it. Secondly, if none of the three come to the U, that would mean, by what you are saying, that both a veteran, well known coach and a young, up and coming coach struck out. If that's not an indication that they just wanted to go somewhere else no matter who or what the coach did, then I don't know what is.

Either way, hopefully we can get at least one of them to stay home.
 

Until and unless all three sign elsewhere, there's nothing to accept.
 

bemidjigopher said:
Still a good shot at landing either Vaughn or Travis, but I don't think we will get both. I don't think Vaughn will go to ISU though, it will either be us, Kansas or the runnin rebs. If Duke lands Looney than I believe Travis is ours and I think he's a four year player. I truly believe we will get Reid Travis and I think he's a four year guy. A class of Morris, Reid and Martin would be pretty good class IMO. Who knows who the fourth will be, but I do agree with you that missing on all three won't ruin the program considering Pitino's late start.
Click to expand...

A good shot? Probably not. A chance? Sure. The favorites are clear at this point for the big three.
Tyus- Duke and Kansas
Reid- Duke and Stanford
Rashad- UNLV and UNC
 

GameDay said:
A good shot? Probably not. A chance? Sure. The favorites are clear at this point for the big three.
Tyus- Duke and Kansas
Reid- Duke and Stanford
Rashad- UNLV and UNC
Click to expand...

Obviously the leaders must not be clear if you're listing UNC as one of the top two teams for Vaughn.
 


golfing18now said:
I agree with much of this post, but to suggest that Tubby was fired because of his standing with recruits is just not true.

Why do people get so worked up about landing elite talent that happens to live in Minnesota and consider it so devastating if we don't? Did anybody care that Bobby Jackson wasn't from here? Or Willie Burton? Or Voshon Lenard?

Did Kris Humphries landing at the University fundamentally change how Minnesota high school kids view this school? Or Royce White? Or Rodney Williams?

It doesn't matter as long as you get players.
Click to expand...

I think it's just the idea that if we can't get elite talent from our own backyard, we certainly aren't getting it from elsewhere. If we missed on all of the big 3 but managed a 2014 recruiting class of Paul White, Ja'Quan Newton, Isaiah Whitehead, and Sandy Cohen then most of the fan base would (or at least should) be more than satisfied and missing on our own in-state guys wouldn't be a big deal. There does seem to be a certain sect that takes issue with out of state recruiting and thinks that the University of Minnesota owes it to Minnesotan players to offer them scholarships over better players from around the country, which I don't understand. Most of us just want good players and think that elite players from Minnesota are likely going to be easier to land than elite players from other parts of the country.

I don't think Pitino is going to lock up the big 3 and take the Big Ten by storm, but I also don't believe that we have zero shot at getting any of them and should just give up hope right now. I also don't think the program will become a laughingstock and be doomed for the next five years if we don't get any of them.

Sure an in-state class of 3 arguably top 30 recruits is rare, but some, like OP's friend seem to look at it the wrong way. It's not a case of "We need these guys or we're screwed for the next few years." It's a case of "We need these guys if we want to be getting Big Ten title hype in Pitino's second year." And it's not even like there aren't going to be any more good recruits in the next few years. Our 2015 class has two top 70-ish guys whom we seem to be in much better position to land, and Amir Coffey is in the same league as 2014's big 3.

One argument for pushing harder for in-state players that I can at least kind of understand is that if we continually get the best guys from Minnesota, it sets a precedent that Minnesotans go to Minnesota, so that in-state players will aspire to go to the U. Personally I think you'd see the same effect if we started dominating and all our players were from Canada or New York or something.
 

Cayman said:
I think it's just the idea that if we can't get elite talent from our own backyard, we certainly aren't getting it from elsewhere. If we missed on all of the big 3 but managed a 2014 recruiting class of Paul White, Ja'Quan Newton, Isaiah Whitehead, and Sandy Cohen then most of the fan base would (or at least should) be more than satisfied and missing on our own in-state guys wouldn't be a big deal. There does seem to be a certain sect that takes issue with out of state recruiting and thinks that the University of Minnesota owes it to Minnesotan players to offer them scholarships over better players from around the country, which I don't understand. Most of us just want good players and think that elite players from Minnesota are likely going to be easier to land than elite players from other parts of the country.

I don't think Pitino is going to lock up the big 3 and take the Big Ten by storm, but I also don't believe that we have zero shot at getting any of them and should just give up hope right now. I also don't think the program will become a laughingstock and be doomed for the next five years if we don't get any of them.

Sure an in-state class of 3 arguably top 30 recruits is rare, but some, like OP's friend seem to look at it the wrong way. It's not a case of "We need these guys or we're screwed for the next few years." It's a case of "We need these guys if we want to be getting Big Ten title hype in Pitino's second year." And it's not even like there aren't going to be any more good recruits in the next few years. Our 2015 class has two top 70-ish guys whom we seem to be in much better position to land, and Amir Coffey is in the same league as 2014's big 3.

One argument for pushing harder for in-state players that I can at least kind of understand is that if we continually get the best guys from Minnesota, it sets a precedent that Minnesotans go to Minnesota, so that in-state players will aspire to go to the U. Personally I think you'd see the same effect if we started dominating and all our players were from Canada or New York or something.
Click to expand...

Very well stated Cayman.
 


Cayman said:
I think it's just the idea that if we can't get elite talent from our own backyard, we certainly aren't getting it from elsewhere. If we missed on all of the big 3 but managed a 2014 recruiting class of Paul White, Ja'Quan Newton, Isaiah Whitehead, and Sandy Cohen then most of the fan base would (or at least should) be more than satisfied and missing on our own in-state guys wouldn't be a big deal. There does seem to be a certain sect that takes issue with out of state recruiting and thinks that the University of Minnesota owes it to Minnesotan players to offer them scholarships over better players from around the country, which I don't understand. Most of us just want good players and think that elite players from Minnesota are likely going to be easier to land than elite players from other parts of the country.

I don't think Pitino is going to lock up the big 3 and take the Big Ten by storm, but I also don't believe that we have zero shot at getting any of them and should just give up hope right now. I also don't think the program will become a laughingstock and be doomed for the next five years if we don't get any of them.

Sure an in-state class of 3 arguably top 30 recruits is rare, but some, like OP's friend seem to look at it the wrong way. It's not a case of "We need these guys or we're screwed for the next few years." It's a case of "We need these guys if we want to be getting Big Ten title hype in Pitino's second year." And it's not even like there aren't going to be any more good recruits in the next few years. Our 2015 class has two top 70-ish guys whom we seem to be in much better position to land, and Amir Coffey is in the same league as 2014's big 3.

One argument for pushing harder for in-state players that I can at least kind of understand is that if we continually get the best guys from Minnesota, it sets a precedent that Minnesotans go to Minnesota, so that in-state players will aspire to go to the U. Personally I think you'd see the same effect if we started dominating and all our players were from Canada or New York or something.
Click to expand...

The bold part is the model the hockey team uses. We focus very heavily on in state players and do not have a whole lot of out of state (and out of country) guys. Obviously, there are a few exceptions, but if I remember right, last year was abnormally high with 4 non-Minnesotans on the roster. On an individual basis, you could probably look at some of our depth guys and say "we could have gotten a Canadian guy down here with a scholarship who would have been a little more talented", but by staying Minnesota's team, we have managed to set the precedent that this is where Minnesota's top talent wants to be. Obviously, basketball could not be as extreme as hockey because as a state we do not have as deep of a talent pool for basketball as we do for hockey at the high school level.
 

Cayman said:
I think it's just the idea that if we can't get elite talent from our own backyard, we certainly aren't getting it from elsewhere. If we missed on all of the big 3 but managed a 2014 recruiting class of Paul White, Ja'Quan Newton, Isaiah Whitehead, and Sandy Cohen then most of the fan base would (or at least should) be more than satisfied and missing on our own in-state guys wouldn't be a big deal. There does seem to be a certain sect that takes issue with out of state recruiting and thinks that the University of Minnesota owes it to Minnesotan players to offer them scholarships over better players from around the country, which I don't understand. Most of us just want good players and think that elite players from Minnesota are likely going to be easier to land than elite players from other parts of the country.

I don't think Pitino is going to lock up the big 3 and take the Big Ten by storm, but I also don't believe that we have zero shot at getting any of them and should just give up hope right now. I also don't think the program will become a laughingstock and be doomed for the next five years if we don't get any of them.

Sure an in-state class of 3 arguably top 30 recruits is rare, but some, like OP's friend seem to look at it the wrong way. It's not a case of "We need these guys or we're screwed for the next few years." It's a case of "We need these guys if we want to be getting Big Ten title hype in Pitino's second year." And it's not even like there aren't going to be any more good recruits in the next few years. Our 2015 class has two top 70-ish guys whom we seem to be in much better position to land, and Amir Coffey is in the same league as 2014's big 3.

One argument for pushing harder for in-state players that I can at least kind of understand is that if we continually get the best guys from Minnesota, it sets a precedent that Minnesotans go to Minnesota, so that in-state players will aspire to go to the U. Personally I think you'd see the same effect if we started dominating and all our players were from Canada or New York or something.
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree less. Did you see the posts a while back that showed the percentage of 5-star players who stay local for school - even when they have an elite school close by? It's natural for those types of players to explore their options, mostly because they have a lot of options. At least when it comes to 4-star players, Minnesota has gotten more of those from out of town than from the local area in recent years.
 

Jessica Alba Fan Club said:
So I was with some friends at the Wolves/Moscow game - barnburner huh? - we got on the topic of the local big three in this years recruiting class. One of the guys in our group was a Gophers season ticket holder and a pretty passionate fan, how passionate? He got up and left the game during the first half angry and upset after a thirty some minute debate after I threw reality in this face, and he wasn't even drunk.

He had this belief that Rich Pitino is going to be like Steve Fisher and he's going to pull off some magical Fab Five class. He was serious. I think it's great that there are some passionate Gopher fans around town, but delusional?

Before he abruptly left the game, he said that if the Pitino didn't land any of the three that the U's image and basketball program will be permenatly destroyed. Because it will show how "un-hip" Minnesota is to the basketball nation by not landing three of it's own hometown players and it will damage our brand for years.

I laughed and threw this reality at him.

Jones and Vaughn will most likely be one and done, with Jones - and Reid - going to Duke. I think Vaughn goes to Iowa St, thats my opinion though.

I think Rich Pitinos system or style isn't built for "one and done" players, so you can cross Jones and Vaughn off the list. I love the Gophers and I'm a die hard fan but I can honestly say if I had a chance to go to Duke and play for Coach K, I would do it in a heartbeat. And I think the Gophers can't compete with Coach K right now, so off goes Reid.

Will this set our program back years. No. I honestly believe Rich Pitino is something special and in my blind die hard faith I think he will get this program back to the Sweet Sixteens and maybe beyond. But opinion or not, I know the "big three" won't be wearing Maroon and Gold next winter and I think some Gopher fans should start realizing and accepting that...
Click to expand...
We have a better chance of signing all 3 then you do of Jessica Alba knowing that you even exist!
 

EG#9 said:
Part of the reason Tubby was fired was his current standing with the Big 3 and the increasing likelihood of him missing out on all 3.
Click to expand...

Link?

If there's any truth to this (there isn't), firing a coach on the basis of whether he may or may not sign some recruits that may or may not help the team in the future is an absolute f8cking joke. You don't retain or dismiss coaches on the basis of recruiting, you retain or dismiss coaches on the basis of winning (cleanly). Minnesota fired Tubby Smith because they think they can do better than their best coach in 23 years, not on the basis of whether or not he may or may not have signed some hyped recruits. What a completely asinine and ridiculous assertion.
 

Tubby was fired because of his inability to avoid the the annual 2nd half collapse. It was destroying the program.
 

MadtownGopher said:
Tubby was fired because of his inability to avoid the the annual 2nd half collapse. It was destroying the program.
Click to expand...

Agreed. If we were firing coaches on the basis of recruiting ability and not game performance, I would really question the competence of our athletic department. One thing I would love to see out of the new hire is a team that I feel better about on March 1 than I do on January 1.
 

MadtownGopher said:
Tubby was fired because of his inability to avoid the the annual 2nd half collapse. It was destroying the program.
Click to expand...

The NCAA tournament game was won in the 1st half of the season, apparently.

It's also specious to suggest that the program was being "destroyed", given that the most successful season under Tubby Smith was his last. If something is being "destroyed", it would seem to suggest a downward trend, not an upward one.
 

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