May Roster Construction current take

[BarnBurner]

please dont put words in other peoples mouths....

and you are right....the season itself will tell us a bunch.....so no need for you to jump off the cliff yet again with your takes when its May 4th

Is that a yes or no? What did you mean by your statement then?

 

[GopherPlaya]

JOJ has some outside game, he's not a center. Just as much as he is an undersized forward, Henley is oversized at guard at 6'8" and still growing.

Watch his film, almost all of his points come from cutting to the hoop, or spot up shooting. He didn't handle the ball much. Lightly recruited players who are going through massive growth spurts are usually more of a project. Especially when you are jumping to this level.

I mean you just described a prototypical 2 guard. It's not like 2 Guards are primary ball handlers. There are a lot of 2 guards who aren't secondary ball handlers

 

[Gopherfan84]

JOJ has some outside game, he's not a center. Just as much as he is an undersized forward, Henley is oversized at guard at 6'8" and still growing.

Watch his film, almost all of his points come from cutting to the hoop, or spot up shooting. He didn't handle the ball much. Lightly recruited players who are going through massive growth spurts are usually more of a project. Especially when you are jumping to this level.

You saying Henley or JOJ doesn't handle? JOJ is working on his perimeter game and has made huge strides, but he's still very raw there imo. Henley tapes show that he's a good passer and handler, haven't seen much from shooting yet.

 

[Gophs24]

Is that a yes or no? What did you mean by your statement then?

i didnt say anythinig that he can get whomever he wants in the portal....but that what he is/was targeting in the portal tells you something....

clearly we were after a starting caliber PG....and got one

we were after an SG type with the Stewert & Strong types....and both visited but you nor i will ever probably truly know what fell through....maybe Ben felt it just wasnt a fit....maybe Stewert wanted to come full circle and go back to where his dad coached....maybe we got the Cooper commitment and Strong was looking for a bigger roll?

but the fact that Ben hasnt gone after, at least reportedly, more guys at the position leads me to believe that he does indeed trust in Braeden and or Henley at that spot.....
and i will say i bet Ben would have loved to add a guy like Jones....and he made contact but Jones wasnt interested....

and now it seems like Ben is actively looking at filling that back up PG spot with the interest in Samuels & that Mikey kid.....so that leads me to believe that he looking at the roster sees that as still a void to fill

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

I mean you just described a prototypical 2 guard. It's not like 2 Guards are primary ball handlers. There are a lot of 2 guards who aren't secondary ball handlers

By your definition Battle, Ihnen, JOJ, and even Garcia can play 2 guard then.

And that still doesn't change that I think Henley is a project and unlikely to play much this season.

 

[bga1]

By your definition Battle, Ihnen, JOJ, and even Garcia can play 2 guard then.

And that still doesn't change that I think Henley is a project and unlikely to play much this season.

I have no idea if you are right or wrong, but Ben's recruiting activities would seem to say he thinks otherwise. If he thinks Henley is a guy that won't play much, he is betting the farm on Carrington.

 

[GopherPlaya]

By your definition Battle, Ihnen, JOJ, and even Garcia can play 2 guard then.

And that still doesn't change that I think Henley is a project and unlikely to play much this season.

I mean they can. Ihnen was recruited as a wing which is SG/SF. Dawson & Jamison played on the Wing during AAU. JOJ possess wing qualities defensively but he is too limited from a handle and shooting prospective

 

[GopherWeatherGuy]

I have no idea if you are right or wrong, but Ben's recruiting activities would seem to say he thinks otherwise. If he thinks Henley is a guy that won't play much, he is betting the farm on Carrington.

That's not all that surprising though. Carrington is very similar to Gabe Kalscheur, and Gabe started and played 31 min per game as a true freshman.

Payne also has a lot of similarities to Oturu, and Oturu started and played 24 min/game on that same team. You also have examples like Coffey, Mason, Murphy, McBrayer, Andre Hollins, Joe Coleman, who all started and played a lot of minutes as true freshman.

I don't like relying on true freshman playing that much, but it's not unprecedented here or across much of college basketball.

 

[skiumah1]

Practice must be underway on various Zone Ds...

 

[Fleckoff]

I am somewhat surprised that all of the roster spots have not been filled. I thought that he would want to fill the 13 spots, but with Cooper and Garcia having multiple years left, Coach Johnson wants to make sure that his base is freshmen recruits each year. I do believe that he wants 3 schollies to play with for the Class of 2023 and that he wants Carrington and Henley as well as Payne and maybe JOJ to feel valued on the team.

Thus, I think he will only sign a wing and a backup type PG good for 15 minutes a game. I still think the current construct of the roster is missing perimeter quickness both on offense and defense. They need a guy who can breakdown the defense and be a stopper against a quick opponent on the perimeter. They need 1 more ball handler and one more outside shooting threat. I can see them signing one of the two PG either Samuel or Watkins both who have only 1 year of eligibility left and are both not a serious threat to the freshmen getting time in the present and future.

i do believe the other spot is for the best wing/combo guard Coach Johnson can find. I think Strong would be a fallback option here. If they cannot find someone at a certain level, then Carrington will have a huge role.

True post— I believe it will be a near even split between Fox 22 minutes and Payne 18 minutes. It is hard to stay out of foul trouble when you are slightly undersized vs. a Dickerson or Edey. Even the Purdue duo averaged about 20 minutes a game.

Stretch 4– Garcia 30, Thompson 6, Ihnen 4. No concerns offensively. Certain small ball teams could create mismatches.
Wing —-Battle 32. Ihnen 8. I still think Henley is a year away strength and skill wise. He is not a great shooter or ball handler. A year or two of added strength and Henley will be a handful. He is amazing already in a full court game.

Combo Guard— New guy 25 and Carrington 15.

Point Guard —Cooper 28, Backup 12.

just my take

Believe Strong committed to Nevada, he would have been a nice Combo guy to add, but I think he saw himself in the Cooper role. I get the sense coach believes Ihnen can guard anything on the court, if that's the case I think he's a 25 minute guy, Think Carrington's a 15-20 minute guy and Hensley will get a rotation in the first half and if it goes well, maybe another one in the second. I think will try to bring in the Dartmouth kid, to play 8-12 minutes a night backing up Cooper, but I think we will role with 11, unless something unexpected pops up

 

[short ornery norwegian]

I hate to say this, but ----

you cannot discount NIL as a factor in recruiting. I just read a long article on SI.com. The article was mainly focused on College FB, but also touched on basketball. It suggested that, in the SEC, every player on the roster for some FB teams will be getting $50,000 in NIL. that's each player.

So, if a player is considering the Gophers vs Team X - and Team X is saying "we can get you this NIL money," while the Gophers do not have an active NIL offer..........that just makes recruiting to programs like MN even harder.

So, we need the Barn Burner NIL Collective to get going. C'mon Barn, start throwing some $$$$ at these recruits.

 

[MNVCGUY]

That's not all that surprising though. Carrington is very similar to Gabe Kalscheur, and Gabe started and played 31 min per game as a true freshman.

Payne also has a lot of similarities to Oturu, and Oturu started and played 24 min/game on that same team. You also have examples like Coffey, Mason, Murphy, McBrayer, Andre Hollins, Joe Coleman, who all started and played a lot of minutes as true freshman.

I don't like relying on true freshman playing that much, but it's not unprecedented here or across much of college basketball.

I think this is one of those areas where some get football and basketball mixed up. In football it is often a death sentence to have to rely on true freshman to play key roles because they just aren't ready in most cases.

On the flipside it is very possible for a guard especially to come in and play right away in college basketball. It becomes even more likely if you are not counting on that guard to be a star player right away but rather just a complementary piece.

Battle and Garcia are likely to be the leaders on offense in 2022-23. So if we are counting on someone like Carrington to start he won't have to come in and average 20+ points a game right off the bat.

Obviously no guarantees they will be ready right away (Thompson and Thiam certainly weren't) but as you said, it isn't unprecedented for true freshman to be ready to play in college basketball.

 

[GophersInIowa]

I hate to say this, but ----

you cannot discount NIL as a factor in recruiting. I just read a long article on SI.com. The article was mainly focused on College FB, but also touched on basketball. It suggested that, in the SEC, every player on the roster for some FB teams will be getting $50,000 in NIL. that's each player.

So, if a player is considering the Gophers vs Team X - and Team X is saying "we can get you this NIL money," while the Gophers do not have an active NIL offer..........that just makes recruiting to programs like MN even harder.

So, we need the Barn Burner NIL Collective to get going. C'mon Barn, start throwing some $$$$ at these recruits.

I do wonder how differently it will play out in the two sports. Basketball players have a lot more opportunities to make money after college. If you're a P6 college player, you can find a place somewhere overseas to make good money. Even guys like Ahanmisi has had a solid career in the Philippines. So I could see some guys not taking the higher money over the better fit as they know the opportunities will still exist after college.

In football, many guys will never get that opportunity.

 

[Formerswish]

I think this is one of those areas where some get football and basketball mixed up. In football it is often a death sentence to have to rely on true freshman to play key roles because they just aren't ready in most cases.

On the flipside it is very possible for a guard especially to come in and play right away in college basketball. It becomes even more likely if you are not counting on that guard to be a star player right away but rather just a complementary piece.

Battle and Garcia are likely to be the leaders on offense in 2022-23. So if we are counting on someone like Carrington to start he won't have to come in and average 20+ points a game right off the bat.

Obviously no guarantees they will be ready right away (Thompson and Thiam certainly weren't) but as you said, it isn't unprecedented for true freshman to be ready to play in college basketball.

I agree that it's not unprecedented for freshmen to be ready to play, and out of the MN freshmen to play, I believe Payne is the most ready. Assuming he adds some upper body strength to his already strong 230 lb frame, he is going to provide defense and rebounding at a pretty high level from the start. I don't see him as a 10 min a game guy. I see him as a huge contributor from the beginning. His skill level will surprise a lot of people, can't wait to see him out there. Talent is still talent, whether he's a freshman or senior.

 

[ecoperson]

Believe Strong committed to Nevada, he would have been a nice Combo guy to add, but I think he saw himself in the Cooper role. I get the sense coach believes Ihnen can guard anything on the court, if that's the case I think he's a 25 minute guy, Think Carrington's a 15-20 minute guy and Hensley will get a rotation in the first half and if it goes well, maybe another one in the second. I think will try to bring in the Dartmouth kid, to play 8-12 minutes a night backing up Cooper, but I think we will role with 11, unless something unexpected pops up

Strong is considering Colorado State, California, Illinois State, Oklahoma and Wake Forest. Hunter McIntosh is going to Nevada.

I think Henley will surprise a few people.

 

[Keyser Söze]

JOJ has some outside game, he's not a center. Just as much as he is an undersized forward, Henley is oversized at guard at 6'8" and still growing.

Watch his film, almost all of his points come from cutting to the hoop, or spot up shooting. He didn't handle the ball much. Lightly recruited players who are going through massive growth spurts are usually more of a project. Especially when you are jumping to this level.

By his film, do you mean a 2 minute highlight video from a year ago? Or have you seen recent full game footage? I haven't seen him play so I don't have a strong opinion, but Ben supposedly thinks Henley could play some PG for us this year. If that's true then I'm skeptical that he's a raw project.

 

[Blackhammer]

Is it likely Battle will play some off guard? Not sure he can defend guards but he has a decent handle .

 

[BarnBurner]

I hate to say this, but ----

you cannot discount NIL as a factor in recruiting. I just read a long article on SI.com. The article was mainly focused on College FB, but also touched on basketball. It suggested that, in the SEC, every player on the roster for some FB teams will be getting $50,000 in NIL. that's each player.

So, if a player is considering the Gophers vs Team X - and Team X is saying "we can get you this NIL money," while the Gophers do not have an active NIL offer..........that just makes recruiting to programs like MN even harder.

So, we need the Barn Burner NIL Collective to get going. C'mon Barn, start throwing some $$$$ at these recruits.

SON, you have $$ to burn based on not going across the street to save on gas. Drop your donation.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

I think this is one of those areas where some get football and basketball mixed up. In football it is often a death sentence to have to rely on true freshman to play key roles because they just aren't ready in most cases.

On the flipside it is very possible for a guard especially to come in and play right away in college basketball. It becomes even more likely if you are not counting on that guard to be a star player right away but rather just a complementary piece.

Battle and Garcia are likely to be the leaders on offense in 2022-23. So if we are counting on someone like Carrington to start he won't have to come in and average 20+ points a game right off the bat.

Obviously no guarantees they will be ready right away (Thompson and Thiam certainly weren't) but as you said, it isn't unprecedented for true freshman to be ready to play in college basketball.

I think this is a good point but I do really struggle with the idea that these wing spots would be handed to incoming true freshman. I have no issue with them earning those and taking the majority of minutes.

Take Gabe Kalscheur's freshman season. He started every single game and played over 30 minutes per night. However, it wasn't clear going into that season he was going to be in that role. The team was returning Amir Coffey and Dupree McBrayer. They had Washington returning (people had high hopes for him going into year 2) and they signed Brock Stull for depth competition. He was an important piece of our team but the spot wasn't just absolutely handed to him in May.

Even Oturu wasn't handed a spot. He took over starting for Curry after like 6 or 7 games.

 

[Dakota2]

I think this is a good point but I do really struggle with the idea that these wing spots would be handed to incoming true freshman. I have no issue with them earning those and taking the majority of minutes.

Take Gabe Kalscheur's freshman season. He started every single game and played over 30 minutes per night. However, it wasn't clear going into that season he was going to be in that role. The team was returning Amir Coffey and Dupree McBrayer. They had Washington returning (people had high hopes for him going into year 2) and they signed Brock Stull for depth competition. He was an important piece of our team but the spot wasn't just absolutely handed to him in May.

Even Oturu wasn't handed a spot. He took over starting for Curry after like 6 or 7 games.

Who has handed a freshman a starting spot in May?

 

[Holy Man]

Who has handed a freshman a starting spot in May?

A lot of posters are giving a pass on not getting a starting quality shooting guard in the portal with the de facto assumption that one or more freshmen will be taking big minutes in that role. I highly doubt those minutes were promised as Ben doesn’t seem to be that kind of coach. Playing time for the frosh may not be the plan but it is a reasonable assumption given spring recruiting so far.

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

Who has handed a freshman a starting spot in May?

I'm arguing for the idea that we need to add a wing(s). Some posters have said that CBJ clearly wants to give the spot to Carrington. If that's true and we aren't really pursuing wings, I think it's a massive mistake.

 

[Gopherfan84]

I mean they can. Ihnen was recruited as a wing which is SG/SF. Dawson & Jamison played on the Wing during AAU. JOJ possess wing qualities defensively but he is too limited from a handle and shooting prospective

You are what you guard. JOJ got an offer because of his versatility on the defensive end as his skills still need to continue to develop.

 

[Dakota2]

A lot of posters are giving a pass on not getting a starting quality shooting guard in the portal with the de facto assumption that one or more freshmen will be taking big minutes in that role. I highly doubt those minutes were promised as Ben doesn’t seem to be that kind of coach. Playing time for the frosh may not be the plan but it is a reasonable assumption given spring recruiting so far.

We all know at least two freshmen are going to play. Maybe more. But the previous poster said someone has handed a starting spot to a freshman in May. Don't think Ben did that. Just wondering who it was.

 

[Dakota2]

I'm arguing for the idea that we need to add a wing(s). Some posters have said that CBJ clearly wants to give the spot to Carrington. If that's true and we aren't really pursuing wings, I think it's a massive mistake.

I would bet coach is not done pursuing quality players no matter what role they would fill. Something may pan out or not.

 

[BarnBurner]

You are what you guard. JOJ got an offer because of his versatility on the defensive end as his skills still need to continue to develop.

Did cbj tell Joj his offer was due to his versatility on the defensive end?

 

[Gopherfan84]

Did cbj tell Joj his offer was due to his versatility on the defensive end?

Yes

 

[Bob_Loblaw]

You are what you guard. JOJ got an offer because of his versatility on the defensive end as his skills still need to continue to develop.

That's only somewhat true. You also need to have spacing and ball handling. Parker Fox might be athletic enough to guard wings but unless he is a much better shooter than we know, we wouldn't to play him with two post players. It would absolutely destroy spacing.

 

[ecoperson]

I'm arguing for the idea that we need to add a wing(s). Some posters have said that CBJ clearly wants to give the spot to Carrington. If that's true and we aren't really pursuing wings, I think it's a massive mistake.

I think 'give the spot to Carrington' is not accurate. Johnson said in his mid week presser that he wants to give the young guys a chance to get some meaningful minutes. No coach is guaranteeing anyone a starting spot.

Reading between the lines, it seems that Johnson really likes what he has and is willing to roll with that crew and let them grow a bit. Maybe he listened to all of the advice of the GopherHole coaching cabal and decided to try to play some of the youngsters this year.

 

[Allshade]

I think this is a good point but I do really struggle with the idea that these wing spots would be handed to incoming true freshman. I have no issue with them earning those and taking the majority of minutes.

Take Gabe Kalscheur's freshman season. He started every single game and played over 30 minutes per night. However, it wasn't clear going into that season he was going to be in that role. The team was returning Amir Coffey and Dupree McBrayer. They had Washington returning (people had high hopes for him going into year 2) and they signed Brock Stull for depth competition. He was an important piece of our team but the spot wasn't just absolutely handed to him in May.

Even Oturu wasn't handed a spot. He took over starting for Curry after like 6 or 7 games.