Mathieu needs to score more

[Gopher Warrior]

Guys,

It's really just about Julian Welch. I still want everyone to admit the Jules was an absolute stud his junior year.

Seriously, here's the deal on DeAndre's shooting numbers:

He's only made 12 3-pointers this season. I think he's 4/11 in Big Ten games. There's a reason he has only attempted 25 in 23 games. His 48% is not real.

His shooting has improved over the years - that's a hat tip to him. But to produce efficiently, shooting from 15 feet & further out isn't smart. It won't be good. Have him attempt a few treys per game and see what happens to that 48%. It's just not real.

No doubt - daps to him for making the few he has taken. But, it would be flawed to use those handful of makes to project him as a higher-volume shooter.

The truth is about half of his attempts are at the rim. That's why his 2-point field goal percentage is as good as it is. His shot location chart looks more like a centers than a strong-perimeter shooting guard.

His conference numbers have been rough. You want to make 'em uglier, have him try to pop from outside. He's does some things EXTREMELY well. Let him do those. Use that speed when prudent, young fella.

 

[GopherJake]

He's only made 12 3-pointers this season. I think he's 4/11 in Big Ten games. There's a reason he has only attempted 25 in 23 games. His 48% is not real.

I think we all understand that Deandre would not maintain a 48% conversion rate on 3 pointers if he were to make a few more attempts per game. The question is, what is "real?" I mean, how will you know? Is 40% "real?" If it were, he would still lead the team. Is 36% "real?" That's 12% less than current. If 36% is "real," that would be good for 2nd on the team.

The only way to find out if it would be effective is to try it. If it's a disaster - like watching Austin launch up brick 3s the past month - then he can abandon the tactic easily enough. I don't see it as a high-risk move.

 

[underground629]

Haha, I was actually thinking about how you liked to bring down Dre in order to defend Welch. Welch was very solid his junior. I assume you were purposely exaggerating with calling him an absolute stud. The problem was that he really needed either a wide open shot or a lot of screens set for him in order to score efficiently. It was a lot easier for him when he got to play pg. He should've gotten all of Dre's backup minutes at pg last year instead of Mav.

Anyway, nobody thinks Mathieu would keep such high percentages if he shot a lot more, especially from 3. However, he's easily our best playmaker and scorer (other than when Mo gets the ball with good position) until Dre is more himself. He has been very good scoring near the rim and shooting from midrange, and he's obviously been good from three but taken very few.

His conference numbers have not been rough--unless by numbers you're simply referring to turnovers. Yes, he needs to cut down on those. However, a lot of them have been because without Dre's scoring, he really needs to do quite a bit in order for us to manufacture points.

Guys,

It's really just about Julian Welch. I still want everyone to admit the Jules was an absolute stud his junior year.

Seriously, here's the deal on DeAndre's shooting numbers:

He's only made 12 3-pointers this season. I think he's 4/11 in Big Ten games. There's a reason he has only attempted 25 in 23 games. His 48% is not real.

His shooting has improved over the years - that's a hat tip to him. But to produce efficiently, shooting from 15 feet & further out isn't smart. It won't be good. Have him attempt a few treys per game and see what happens to that 48%. It's just not real.

No doubt - daps to him for making the few he has taken. But, it would be flawed to use those handful of makes to project him as a higher-volume shooter.

The truth is about half of his attempts are at the rim. That's why his 2-point field goal percentage is as good as it is. His shot location chart looks more like a centers than a strong-perimeter shooting guard.

His conference numbers have been rough. You want to make 'em uglier, have him try to pop from outside. He's does some things EXTREMELY well. Let him do those. Use that speed when prudent, young fella.

 

[march madness]

I guess we are all thinking lil dre shoots 3 more a game and even if he hits one what that does to his defender and how it could open up the lane even more.

 

[MadtownGopher]

Welch was the slowest guard I've ever seen. Dude played like he had cinder blocks for feet.

 

[jmag21]

Welch was the slowest guard I've ever seen. Dude played like he had cinder blocks for feet.

Yeah, he was hyped up a bit, but when he got here, his lack of athleticism was kind of staggering. Welch had great hands though. Bostick was another guy who was a lot less quick than I'd assumed he would be.

 

[Gopher Warrior]

I guess we are all thinking lil dre shoots 3 more a game and even if he hits one what that does to his defender and how it could open up the lane even more.

I4 knew what was coming (reach, dribble right) & still couldn't contain. No need to shoot deep for him. He ate the Hoosiers' lunch (although his shot chart shows....he attempted some -and missed - from outside of the paint)

 

[Bad Gopher]

Lil Dre reminds me of how Al Nolen was hard to stop on the drive at times, sometimes even unstoppable. That's a weapon.

 

[BarnBurner]

I4 knew what was coming (reach, dribble right) & still couldn't contain. No need to shoot deep for him. He ate the Hoosiers' lunch (although his shot chart shows....he attempted some -and missed - from outside of the paint)

Sure did.

Next game - my prediction is he makes some and misses some - from outside the paint.

And inside the paint.

 

[underground629]

GW, still waiting to hear how Mathieu's numbers have been rough in conference other than turnovers

 

[Holy Man]

Lil Dre reminds me of how Al Nolen was hard to stop on the drive at times, sometimes even unstoppable. That's a weapon.

I remember Al being able to get to the basket and not able to finish. Defense was his calling card. Dre is a little smaller, but a much better finisher.

 

[march madness]

Dre has amazing body control and he is fearless.

 

[Bad Gopher]

I remember Al being able to get to the basket and not able to finish. Defense was his calling card. Dre is a little smaller, but a much better finisher.

I remember him getting a lot of free throws, actually. That's how we beat Louisville.

 

[SelectionSunday]

I remember him getting a lot of free throws, actually. That's how we beat Louisville.

Yep. I made that trip to Arizona, and Louisville had no answer for Nolen at the end of the game. They were playing man, so Tubby just spread the floor and Nolen repeatedly beat his guy to the bucket every time. Same thing Pitino did the other night on the crucual possession when it was 62-60. Cleared the floor for Mathieu and the guy guarding him had no chance.

 

[march madness]

I still cannot believe that some people didn't like Al Nolen. The last pure pg we have had until lil Dre. People didn't like that he wasn't a great outside shooter, but that was his only weakness. I am not saying Joseph didn't have talent, but it should have been used off the ball.

 

[station19]

I still cannot believe that some people didn't like Al Nolen. The last pure pg we have had until lil Dre. People didn't like that he wasn't a great outside shooter, but that was his only weakness. I am not saying Joseph didn't have talent, but it should have been used off the ball.

Maybe because he wasn't that great offensively. He was a tremendous defensive player(yes defense counts) and an excellent ball handler. He was not much of a threat from outside and not really strong finishing at the rim. When he went down is probably when he was most appreciated. Mn has a pretty short list of quality pg's.

 

[Winasota Gopher]

I still cannot believe that some people didn't like Al Nolen. The last pure pg we have had until lil Dre. People didn't like that he wasn't a great outside shooter, but that was his only weakness. I am not saying Joseph didn't have talent, but it should have been used off the ball.

He was absolutely terrible with body control and finishing at the rim (in comparison to DeAndre)... If he had the knack to finish through contact he might have had a professional career. I LOVED me some Al Nolen, just the type of guy you want on your team. Tough nosed, played hard, did the little things. I loved that team, he and DJ were a great combo on the defensive end of the floor.

Just imagine one of the Teague boy's with the ability to play defense. That would have been Al Nolen with touch around the rim.

 

[GopherJake]

I didn't really appreciate when he was suspended from the team for academic reasons, costing us wins and driving another of the several nails into Tubby's Minnesota coffin.

 

[Gopher Warrior]

GW, still waiting to hear how Mathieu's numbers have been rough in conference other than turnovers

Oh, didn't realize you were waiting. If you're of the belief that a 28% turnover rate isn't a big deal and that an Ortg of around 97 is good, I probably won't be able to help you much.

 

[Section201]

Oh, didn't realize you were waiting. If you're of the belief that a 28% turnover rate isn't a big deal and that an Ortg of around 97 is good, I probably won't be able to help you much.

gw, can you put those numbers in context with the numbers of other BIG point guards?

thanks

 

[jamalo]

Oh, didn't realize you were waiting. If you're of the belief that a 28% turnover rate isn't a big deal and that an Ortg of around 97 is good, I probably won't be able to help you much.

How much would it cost to have you switch from GopherWarrior to BadgerWarrior and have you post exclusively on the Bucky site? I'll pledge some money for that to happen!!!

 

[fryguy22]

Oh, didn't realize you were waiting. If you're of the belief that a 28% turnover rate isn't a big deal and that an Ortg of around 97 is good, I probably won't be able to help you much.

All that EITHER of those numbers says is that he turns the ball over too much. That's already been admitted. Can you read?

 

[Winasota Gopher]

All that EITHER of those numbers says is that he turns the ball over too much. That's already been admitted. Can you read?

Wow... that's tough to read.

You guys harp on GW waaay too much. He isn't saying DeDre sucks... he's saying he's not a great shooter. I bet if you asked DeDre if he was a good shooter he'd let you know that's not his strength.

If you haven't noticed some of Dre's struggles since the Nebraska game, you haven't been watching. I don't need GW's stats to tell me that. Thing is, the kid is resilient, he has a knack for making big plays down the stretch, is an annoying defender and he's a goddamn blast to watch play the game of basketball.

 

[underground629]

Well, considering I didn't say either of those things, I don't think I need your help. I guess it's my turn to cherry-pick some of your advanced stats:

Whatever happened to your seemingly favorite one? Mathieu has an eFG% of .515. That's compared to Austin's .453. Of course you'd never critique him once in 4 years though since he's your favorite player.

Ortg seems like a great measure: Joey King comes in at number 2 on the team at 122.7 (just behind Malik), with the two of them making up a tier nowhere close to the rest of the team. Offensive beast EE comes in at 3rd. Mathieu comes in at dead last of anyone on the team playing major minutes... if that doesn't tell you it's not a very good measure, I can't help you either. Use your eyes and think critically.

Oh, didn't realize you were waiting. If you're of the belief that a 28% turnover rate isn't a big deal and that an Ortg of around 97 is good, I probably won't be able to help you much.

 

[mnsports1]

Wow... that's tough to read.

You guys harp on GW waaay too much. He isn't saying DeDre sucks... he's saying he's not a great shooter. I bet if you asked DeDre if he was a good shooter he'd let you know that's not his strength.

If you haven't noticed some of Dre's struggles since the Nebraska game, you haven't been watching. I don't need GW's stats to tell me that. Thing is, the kid is resilient, he has a knack for making big plays down the stretch, is an annoying defender and he's a goddamn blast to watch play the game of basketball.

Wait! What?

 

[Jeshurun]

I remember him getting a lot of free throws, actually. That's how we beat Louisville.

Everybody knows that free throws don't matter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Gopher Warrior]

gw, can you put those numbers in context with the numbers of other BIG point guards?

thanks

A few select B1G PG's...

Walton 124 20
Ferrell 116 17
Gesell 113 16
Appling 107 14
R. Johnson 106 18
Frazier 103 21
Craft 102 27
Mathieu 97 28
Jackson 96 24

---------------------
Player A... ORtg 112, %Shots 22%, OR% 7%, DR% 14%, Stl% 3.8, FC/40 2.1, Blk% 2.1
Player B... ORtg 107, %Shots 20%, OR% 3, DR% 8%, Stl % 3.5, FC/40 3.3, Blk% 0.2

 

[60's Guy]

Mostly different thoughts

I agree with GW that you do not want DeAndre shooting more threes. If he wanted to shoot he would. If he thought he could make more of them he'd shoot them. He has the freedom. It's not who he is. You can't make someone into something they aren't at this level. The result would be lost confidence and lesser play in all areas.

The other result of him shooting more threes is transition uncontested hoops the other way by the opponent from "hot" rebounds and transition defense disadvantages.

What he does need to do more is attack the basket even more. That's who he is. That's what he is good at.
He can finish at the rim. The only way to get the other team in foul trouble is by DeAndre attacking the hoop.
He can make free throws. Why did we beat Penn State? Their guard fouled out.

DeAndre makes big plays. He's fearless. You can't have him thinking at all about should I or shouldn't I attack.
You live with the turnovers. He's not perfect. He wouldn't have been available in April if he was. You try to make him into something he's not and he becomes Maverick/Oto like...unsure.

Live with it! He's awesome! He's fun to watch! AND Pitino can coach! Trust him a little.

 

[underground629]

GW, you responded to something else in this thread after I responded to what you said. I'm honestly just curious to hear what you have to say to each part of my last post. I feel like you judge players pretty early on and then hold a really strong confirmation bias and cherry-pick stats to support your stance.

I really think you're too into a lot of these advanced (though "non-traditional" is probably more apt) stats that are quite arbitrary and can't encapsulate aspects of the game that are important. Ortg is a horrible measure.