Mass exodous at Kentucky?

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SelectionSunday said:
"The 2010 APR won't be calculated for a couple of years and even then, it's blended together with 2007, 2008, and 2009 APR."

No sh*t, Sherlock. Gee, I wasn't aware of that. It's really scary that you know the person's name.
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I've known Sandy for 10 years (since Jason Parker signed at UK).

She was REALLY a good Friend Of (to) Tubby.
 


GophersOnTheRise said:
Creepin' to the max.
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Ah, baloney.

I knew Tubby's secretary (Marta McMackin) too. My sister dated a Wildcat in 1973-74-75 so I knew her (MM) since then.

I knew Erik Daniels' family from Cincinnati. That's how I know Sandy Bell (through the Daniels).

Sorry to upset you folks.
 


Pewterschmidt said:
Side note:

Over the past couple of year, as a Duke fan, I've been sick and tired of hearing that Duke hasn't been to the Final Four since 2004. Note: IT'S HARD TO MAKE IT TO THE FINAL FOUR IN A ONE-AND-DONE TOURNEY. Duke had some poor performances when it matter most (Redick vs LSU in '07) and I understand the oddity of not seeing Duke in the final four that often but people just made such a big deal about it. Now that they're in, can those that loved to make mention of it finally turn to the program that somehow went under the radar but is much more deserving of the title of "has been there since."?

Kentucky

So why has no one mentioned that it has been 12 years since Kentucky's last appearance? In the realm of the elite in college basketball, Kentucky and Duke are on the same level. Headline: 12 years is twice as long as 6.
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The difference is Kentucky has not been considered an "elite" program by the media and most fans for some time now. Duke always has. They've done well during the regular season but have done very poorly in the tournament.

Who's been a better program over the past 6-8 years? Duke or Michigan St? Duke has had more wins, recruited more McDonald's All-Americans, but Michigan St. has had a lot more success in the tournament. Yet guys like Dukie V act like they're in the final four almost every year. I met many Duke fans when I lived in North Carolina for four years. Everytime I criticized the program in any way, their reponse would almost always be "you're just jealous."

North Carolina gets a lot of pub in the media as well, but at least they've won some championships lately. Coach K is an increadible coach, one of the best all-time. But it's like it's against the law to criticize the guy. There's no way around it, Duke has under-performed in the NCAA tournament in the past 10 or so years.
 


GophersInIowa said:
The difference is Kentucky has not been considered an "elite" program by the media and most fans for some time now. Duke always has. They've done well during the regular season but have done very poorly in the tournament.

Who's been a better program over the past 6-8 years? Duke or Michigan St? Duke has had more wins, recruited more McDonald's All-Americans, but Michigan St. has had a lot more success in the tournament. Yet guys like Dukie V act like they're in the final four almost every year. I met many Duke fans when I lived in North Carolina for four years. Everytime I criticized the program in any way, their reponse would almost always be "you're just jealous."

North Carolina gets a lot of pub in the media as well, but at least they've won some championships lately. Coach K is an increadible coach, one of the best all-time. But it's like it's against the law to criticize the guy. There's no way around it, Duke has under-performed in the NCAA tournament in the past 10 or so years.
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(2005 through 2010) Last 6 years? Sparty has 3 FF, Duke 0.

(2003 through 2010) last 8? Sparty, Duke 1.

Duke FF under K were 1986-88-89-90-91-92-94-99-01-04-10. That's 11 FF in 25 seasons. Not bad.
 

The draft is weak on pt guards after Wall. Bledsoe could even make the late lottery if he tests/plays well.
 


GibsonSG said:
Daniel Orton getting drafted in the first round would be a joke. 3.4 points and 3.3 rebounds in a huge 13 minutes a game. Impressive. Guaranteed first-round millions for that kind of sheer domination. Nothing more to prove.

The common basketball fan can probably evaluate talent as well as your typical NBA scout, general manager, etc. That's why players like Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, and Josh Howard almost slipped out of the first round while (insert any number of big draft busts taken much higher.)

Can't pass Orton up though! Might be the next Karl Malone or Tim Duncan or.....oh, hell, I'm wasting my breath. :)
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Kevin Garnet syndrome, lots of ability, could develop into an all star. Guys like Garnet were drafted on potential and it worked out. NBA teams feel the risk is worth it.
 



Orton is not making a mistake. He is going to be a 1st round pick this year, and the lockout (potentially) next year means now is the time to go if he doesn't want to stay three years. I know OSU tried to recruit him, and Orton maintained all along that he wanted to be a 1 & done. He went to a school where he was behind Cousins on the depth chart, so he didn't get as much PT as he would've about anywhere else.

Where is all the bashing of Calipari for having 5 first-round picks and not winning the national title or even making the Final Four? All that talent & not even really coming close to beating WVU - gotta be the coach's fault, right? Duke, with significantly less talent, destroyed WVU. I can remember so many fans accusing Matta of being a poor coach after he took a very similar team (hell, they had 2 fewer first round picks) to the NC game and lost to the defending champs who returned basically their whole team. If Matta is all recruiter & no coach, then what is Calipari???

Calipari might get a few more top recruits to try to replace them, but it aint that easy. UK will not be anywhere near as good next year compared to what they were this year. Brandon Knight didn't play all that well in the McD's AA game & he is certainly no John Wall, and Enes Kanter is no Cousins.
 

Calipari did an amazing job considering the hand he was dealt. New system, little actual tournament experience and a whole lot of newcomers. There was no one on that team to tell the younger guys "This is how we do this or that" because none of the returning guys had any clue either. Ask anyone around the program what they thought this team would do and what they actually accomplished and you'll find nothing but smiles. Most thought they were looking at a 2 or 3 seed at best and approaching double digit losses. They just hoped to make a run in the tourney in the end. No one predicted they'd do what they did.

I said all season this team's ceiling was the Elite 8 and they accomplished that. Was it disappointing in how they lost? Sure, but that's the tournament for you. Couldn't throw it in the ocean and a team that doesn't shoot the three well at all plays out of their mind from the perimeter. They brought a whole lot of fun back to the program and outside of the negative folks who'll never be happy with anything but perfection (and they'd still probably find something to bitch about) everyone pretty much views this season has a resounding success.

2011 is actually what the staff and people around the program had targeted for a true national championship contending team. People make a big deal out of losing so many players but this was just a perfect storm. Cousins came in as a two year player at least and now people are mentioning him in some circles to go as high as 2. Bledsoe wasn't on anyone's draft radar until GM's started to come to workouts and see his potential.
 

Patterson

The Truth said:
Calipari did an amazing job considering the hand he was dealt. New system, little actual tournament experience and a whole lot of newcomers. There was no one on that team to tell the younger guys "This is how we do this or that" because none of the returning guys had any clue either. Ask anyone around the program what they thought this team would do and what they actually accomplished and you'll find nothing but smiles. Most thought they were looking at a 2 or 3 seed at best and approaching double digit losses. They just hoped to make a run in the tourney in the end. No one predicted they'd do what they did.

I said all season this team's ceiling was the Elite 8 and they accomplished that. Was it disappointing in how they lost? Sure, but that's the tournament for you. Couldn't throw it in the ocean and a team that doesn't shoot the three well at all plays out of their mind from the perimeter. They brought a whole lot of fun back to the program and outside of the negative folks who'll never be happy with anything but perfection (and they'd still probably find something to bitch about) everyone pretty much views this season has a resounding success.

2011 is actually what the staff and people around the program had targeted for a true national championship contending team. People make a big deal out of losing so many players but this was just a perfect storm. Cousins came in as a two year player at least and now people are mentioning him in some circles to go as high as 2. Bledsoe wasn't on anyone's draft radar until GM's started to come to workouts and see his potential.
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Perhaps it was not your intent but you seem to ignore and/or minimalize what Patterson has done for the KY program. I wish he had followed Tubby here.
 

No, it wasn't my intent. Nobody had any clue as to the offensive system, defense, scheme or strategies. Ramon and Perry had more NCAA tournament experience than Patrick (who had, until this season, played in a grand total of zero NCAA tournament games) and even that was limited. People make a big deal about Rose at Memphis but what they tend to forget is that he was surrounded by a veteran, talented and experienced supporting cast. That was not the case at Kentucky this year and it makes what they did accomplish that more amazing.

And Tubby offered Patrick a scholarship to Minnesota. He and his parents declined. Patrick wanted to play for Kentucky.
 




Somebody should really tell some of these guys that Kevin McHale is no longer a GM in the NBA.
 

The Truth said:
Calipari did an amazing job considering the hand he was dealt. New system, little actual tournament experience and a whole lot of newcomers. There was no one on that team to tell the younger guys "This is how we do this or that" because none of the returning guys had any clue either. .

Couldn't throw it in the ocean and a team that doesn't shoot the three well at all plays out of their mind from the perimeter.

2011 is actually what the staff and people around the program had targeted for a true national championship contending team. People make a big deal out of losing so many players but this was just a perfect storm. Cousins came in as a two year player at least and now people are mentioning him in some circles to go as high as 2. Bledsoe wasn't on anyone's draft radar until GM's started to come to workouts and see his potential.
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LOL. Calipari didn't do a great job in the Elite 8 when it mattered most - can't call that an amazing job because his team fell short of the F4 which mostly everyone was predicting them to make when the brackets came out. Calipari should be the one who's branded as a great recruiter and poor coach a lot moreso than Matta, yet Cal gets a pass for some reason (charisma? thick, full head of hair?). His only two final fours have been vacated, so obviously he is a poor coach when it comes to running his programs within the rules. As for this year, he has 3-5 first round picks and lost to a team that will have none this year unless Devin Ebanks leaves, and Ebanks might not be a 1st rounder. The great Calipari's team "starts" the game 0 for 20 on 3s - at what point should your coach step in and say "hey guys, Cousins down low is being guarded by the opposing team's PG, Joe Mazzulla, let's pound the ball inside and stop shooting so many 3s" but they never did stop shooting 3s and took 3s a lot more often than they got shots for Cousins (UK shot 4-32 on 3s, Cousins was 6-11 on 2s and 3-5 on FTs, and had 6 offensive rebounds which may have accounted for some of his shot attempts). No way should UK have shot 3x as many 3s as Cousins shot 2s in that game, especially with Mazzulla guarding Cousins, but that's what they did. That was certainly a subpar coaching job by Calipari against WVU. WVU was not that bad of a 3-point shooting team on the season (34%), and while they started off hot, for the game they were 10-23 on 3s (43%), which is not all that out of the ordinary and is hardly WVU "playing out of their mind"

Cousins was 1 & done from the beginning. Anyone who says otherwise is clueless, because no matter what anybody said, he always was a 1 & done talent with his size and athletic ability, and you just don't count on those type of players coming back. Foolish to plan for '11-12 when you really can't plan on the guys you've landed staying past '09-10!
 

Couple of points to remember. Patterson will have his degree. He has also expressed the possibility of returning for his final year of eligibility and attending graduate school. This is to develop more of his outside game that he learned only this year. Some of the potential "one & dones" could return if they haven't gone too far with hiring an agent, most likely to return IMO is Orton.

I ditto remarks by The Truth in that the game at UK was more fun this year. The players had fun. The fans had fun. A lot was accomplished in just one year.
 

Orton is gone. He wanted to be one & done all along & was very open and honest about it. He has a legit shot at the first round & likely will be a 1st round pick. With the lockout possibly coming in 2011, Orton is not coming back to Kentucky. Practically no chance.
 

OSUfan you may be right. The NBA likes its set-up of the one and done as they get to evaluate who has potential to further their NBA banner and return monetary value. ( It's nearly impossible to watch them in high school- no TV exposure) I just don't think Orton had enough playing time to show his stuff. Maybe he'll get a chance in the developmental league. Orton could be better - from what was said he already he thinks he is - but IMO he needs more work. Leaving the court in a huff during a game because he didn't get to play doesn't help. He might be spending a lot of time on the bench and coaches don't like problem-children.
 

I don't know where you're reading, but I've seen plenty of questions about John Calipari's X's and O's abilities over the last few years, particularly after the Memphis-Kansas championship game. In fact, if there's one coach in college basketball who is a lightning rod for criticism, it's Calipari.

As for Matta? To be honest, on a national scale, I thought he received quite a bit of credit in guiding the Buckeyes to the national championship game. He just doesn't resonate on a national level like Calipari does or several other coaches at this point in time, for that matter.
 

The Truth said:
No, it wasn't my intent. Nobody had any clue as to the offensive system, defense, scheme or strategies. Ramon and Perry had more NCAA tournament experience than Patrick (who had, until this season, played in a grand total of zero NCAA tournament games) and even that was limited. People make a big deal about Rose at Memphis but what they tend to forget is that he was surrounded by a veteran, talented and experienced supporting cast. That was not the case at Kentucky this year and it makes what they did accomplish that more amazing.

And Tubby offered Patrick a scholarship to Minnesota. He and his parents declined. Patrick wanted to play for Kentucky.
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Actually Patrick wanted to play for a school 2 hours from his home. Kentucky fit that bill.

There was never a formal scholarship offer by Minnesota.
 

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