Mason with Dan B.

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raragophers

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I was listening to KFAN (insert joke here) yesterday when Dan B interviewed Glen Mason. Mason specifically stated that the gophers can not and will not out recruit programs such as Ohio State on a year in/year out basis. Mason also emphasized the importance of putting together a recruiting class that fit a specific system rather than recruiting players based on overall skill level. After hearing these comments it made me realize why people do not follow gopher football as much as other professional sports teams in this market (more specifically the vikings)

I think a vast majority of people (outside of the state of MN) realize that the gophers will not ever become a powerhouse in football because of their inability to recruit top tier players who will ALWAYS go to schools such as USC, Ohio St., Florida, Alabama etc. Due to the parity in professional football, it brings an extra dimension into fan following. The Vikings will see a greater fan following because of the opportunity they have at winning a championship. Unlike the Vikings, the gophers best case scenario would be for them to compete for the opportunity at a rose bowl once every 5-6 years.

Bottom line:the gophers will not ever become the type of team that can compete on a year in/year out basis for a national championship or Rose Bowl. This is the reason why potential coaches consider this a transition job and not a destination job.
 

well no schit

the hilarious part though was mason acted like he implemented this system at minnesota and he did great

and of course penis head just let go right on talking about how he did the job at minnesota

i don't know who the bigger phony was in that interview......mason or penis head?
 

Honestly, there are only a handful of jobs that can compete on a year in/year out basis for a national championship or Rose Bowl. Potential coaches don't consider Iowa/Wisconsin/Oregon/Stanford/Michigan State transition jobs (unless they got the call from Ohio State/Oklahoma/USC/Alabama/Texas) but they're certainly not competing year in and year out for national championships or Rose Bowls.
 

Glen Mason isn't exactly an objective source. To me that is Glen saying " I'm the best Minnesota could/can do, I shouldn't have been fired. Minnesota can not be better than average, I just realized it before everyone else." If you needed Glen Mason to tell you that the gophers currently cannot out recruit Ohio State, stick to following the Vikings.
 

...so says the guy who couldn't get it done. I am sure plenty of coaches would disagree with Mason. The idea is not just to recruit players to a certain system, but then get the best guys possible at those positions of need.

Nobody will be able to convince me that Madison, WI and Iowa City, IA have more national appeal than Minneapolis. Get the right guy, and the program can be a consistent winner.

The reason potential coaches see this as a transition job is not the ability to win, but the money. Pay a guy $4 million to coach in Minneapolis, and suddenly the desire to leave wanes a bit.
 


Everything is cyclical. Our cycle is just a bit longer than the other Big Ten teams.:eek:
 

raragophers said:
Bottom line:the gophers will not ever become the type of team that can compete on a year in/year out basis for a national championship or Rose Bowl. This is the reason why potential coaches consider this a transition job and not a destination job.
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Weird. This applies to Wisconsin and Iowa too. Yet they aren't considered transition jobs.
 

Gopher07 said:
Honestly, there are only a handful of jobs that can compete on a year in/year out basis for a national championship or Rose Bowl. Potential coaches don't consider Iowa/Wisconsin/Oregon/Stanford/Michigan State transition jobs (unless they got the call from Ohio State/Oklahoma/USC/Alabama/Texas) but they're certainly not competing year in and year out for national championships or Rose Bowls.
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Michigan State and Stanford have a history of being transition jobs. Iowa and WI until recently (Frye and Alvarez) were not good enough to have coaches leave for better jobs. Oregon may be one of the best jobs in college football (Booster Support and fan expectations). I bet once Alvarez is gone from WI that will become a transition job.
 

GoAUpher said:
Weird. This applies to Wisconsin and Iowa too. Yet they aren't considered transition jobs.
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I disagree. If Alabama, Florida, etc...ever came knocking on Ferentz or Bielema's (Sp?) door, they would answer.
 



And yet Oregon was made into one of the best jobs during the Bellotti era. Since 1938, the program has only had four coaches with winning records (two of those coming since 1995) - Jim Aiken (21-20), Len Casanova (82-73-8), Mike Bellotti (116-55) and Chip Kelly (16-3). Before 1995, they were in a 37 year Rose Bowl drought. And they've only been to two since 1958. Never won a national title, either (we have 6). Never had a Heisman winner (we have 1). Only 2 consensus All-Americans (we have 33).

My point is, even a program like Oregon doesn't compete year in and year out for national titles and Rose Bowls. That should not be a realistic measure of success for anyone not named Ohio State, Florida, Alabama, Oklahoma, or Texas.
 

Gopher07 said:
And yet Oregon was made into one of the best jobs during the Bellotti era. Since 1938, the program has only had four coaches with winning records (two of those coming since 1995) - Jim Aiken (21-20), Len Casanova (82-73-8), Mike Bellotti (116-55) and Chip Kelly (16-3). Before 1995, they were in a 37 year Rose Bowl drought. And they've only been to two since 1958. Never won a national title, either (we have 6). Never had a Heisman winner (we have 1). Only 2 consensus All-Americans (we have 33).

My point is, even a program like Oregon doesn't compete year in and year out for national titles and Rose Bowls. That should not be a realistic measure of success for anyone not named Ohio State, Florida, Alabama, Oklahoma, or Texas.
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I agree this is the reason why people will never follow the Gophers like they do with the Vikings.
 

I am with Silvio on this one. Minnesota shouldn't say "aw shucks" and throw in the towel. It is no secret that it would take decades of sustained Iowa/Wisconsin/Oregon type success before we could feel like we could flat out beat Ohio State in recruiting. That is obvious, but how fun would it be (and how big would Gopher football become) if we could just contend in the Big 10 every few years? Right now, the teams we are chasing (Iowa and Wisconsin) can't compete head to head with Ohio State for recruiting talent either. But, to say the Minnesota job can only be a stepping stone (as if it is a sunbelt or MAC school) is VERY short sighted in my opinion. BCS jobs are ALL destination jobs. Yes, there is some movement within the BCS to the very top tier but there are plenty of coaches that are just as talented but very content to be a hero by keeping their team in regular contention.

If I held the opinion of the original post in this thread, I'd probably give up my season tickets. I wonder how many people in the 30's were saying "Why even try to keep up with Minnesota recruiting?"
 

Dan spent a decade ripping Mason, now they are thick as thieves. "The enemy of my enemy is my friend."
 



Silvio said:
Glen Mason isn't exactly an objective source. To me that is Glen saying " I'm the best Minnesota could/can do, I shouldn't have been fired. Minnesota can not be better than average, I just realized it before everyone else." If you needed Glen Mason to tell you that the gophers currently cannot out recruit Ohio State, stick to following the Vikings.
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Mason reaffirmed what I thought was true in regards to what we as fans should expect. Mediocrity is a word gopher football will always be associated with. However, I will follow them and support them because they are my home state school.
 

That's a ridiculous loser mentality. No reason outside of the control of those involved with the program why we can't be considered greater than mediocre.
 

Schnauzer said:
I am with Silvio on this one. Minnesota shouldn't say "aw shucks" and throw in the towel. It is no secret that it would take decades of sustained Iowa/Wisconsin/Oregon type success before we could feel like we could flat out beat Ohio State in recruiting. That is obvious, but how fun would it be (and how big would Gopher football become) if we could just contend in the Big 10 every few years? Right now, the teams we are chasing (Iowa and Wisconsin) can't compete head to head with Ohio State for recruiting talent either. But, to say the Minnesota job can only be a stepping stone (as if it is a sunbelt or MAC school) is VERY short sighted in my opinion. BCS jobs are ALL destination jobs. Yes, there is some movement within the BCS to the very top tier but there are plenty of coaches that are just as talented but very content to be a hero by keeping their team in regular contention.

If I held the opinion of the original post in this thread, I'd probably give up my season tickets. I wonder how many people in the 30's were saying "Why even try to keep up with Minnesota recruiting?"
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"BCS are ALL destination jobs".....wow.
 

raragophers said:
I agree this is the reason why people will never follow the Gophers like they do with the Vikings.
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Why? The Vikings have never won a super bowl, occasionally are a factor in the conference, are a regular contender in the Division. However they are the third most storied and successful team in the conference (behind Green Bay and Chicago). If Gopher football can become competitive in the Iowa, WI, and Vikings sense they will have a strong following.

I believe 2003 showed the type of interest the casual fan is willing to put into this program if they can become competitive for in the BigTen. I don't mean contend for a conference crown every year, but be a factor in determining who goes to New Years Day bowls.
 

Gopher07 said:
That's a ridiculous loser mentality. No reason why we can't be considered greater than mediocre.
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it depends what you consider "mediocre". I consider mediocrity contending for a rose bowl 5-6 years. Do you really think the program can eclipse my definition?
 

raragophers said:
"BCS are ALL destination jobs".....wow.
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I think their is truth to what Schnauzer said. A successful coach at a BCS school with most likely only look at "upgrading" to a handful of schools. While I think there are probably a total of 10-12 of these big name schools in general. I think for each coach that list is probably down to more like 2-4 depending on the individual. See Lou Holtz, while I am to young to remember his time here it appears their was only one school that he would have left MN for.
 

raragophers said:
Mediocrity is a word gopher football will always be associated with. However, I will follow them and support them because they are my home state school.
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BS. This is only true if you don't think MN can do what WI and IA did. Any AD, coach, or president who shares a non-competitive opinion like this doesn't deserve their job.
 


Silvio said:
Why? The Vikings have never won a super bowl, occasionally are a factor in the conference, are a regular contender in the Division. However they are the third most storied and successful team in the conference (behind Green Bay and Chicago). If Gopher football can become competitive in the Iowa, WI, and Vikings sense they will have a strong following.

I believe 2003 showed the type of interest the casual fan is willing to put into this program if they can become competitive for in the BigTen. I don't mean contend for a conference crown every year, but be a factor in determining who goes to New Years Day bowls.
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How often do the Vikings seriously compete for a NFC North title on a regular basis? How often do the gophers seriously contend for a big ten champsionship? The opportunity to contend is the underlying difference in fan support.
 

GoAUpher said:
BS. This is only true if you don't think MN can do what WI and IA did. Any AD, coach, or president who shares a non-competitive opinion like this doesn't deserve their job.
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please see my post above.
 

Silvio said:
Glen Mason isn't exactly an objective source. To me that is Glen saying " I'm the best Minnesota could/can do, I shouldn't have been fired. Minnesota can not be better than average, I just realized it before everyone else." If you needed Glen Mason to tell you that the gophers currently cannot out recruit Ohio State, stick to following the Vikings.
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It's comments like that that reassure me that even if hiring Brewster was a mistake, firing Mason was not. Mason's just trying to say that he did the best job here that anyone could possibly do, that no one could recruit to Minnesota. Nonsense. People do have this tendency to think that nothing changes, that things will continue to always be as they are now. Wisconsin and Iowa have no inherent advantages over us. The right coach can build this program up, just as Iowa and Wisconsin were built up. They can build both offense and defense, it's just a cheap excuse to say that we can't recruit here. The elite teams, they got where they were by building themselves up. No team ever became an elite team by saying "we can't do it."

If it was such a mistake to fire Mason, why hasn't anyone taken advantage of our mistake and hired him? He has a reputation for being able to take downtrodden programs and build them up to be pretty good. But no one has hired him. Sure, he probably could be hired by a lower-tier team, and maybe work his way back into the BCS. But he hasn't been inclined to go that route. Too bad, then he'd finally have the chance to prove us wrong.
 

Didn't hear the interview, but if it went as reported here, this is why I tired of Mason and why I believed it was time for the program to move on. His constant invocation of the Holy Shrine of Columbus to which all football disciples must pray on a daily basis really started to wear me out. When he beat Ohio State in Columbus, he almost sounded apologetic afterwards.

And maybe Ohio State does harvest more 4- and 5-star kids than anyone else. Does that excuse you, as a coach, from letting all the best kids from your state go somewhere else relatively unimpeded? Mason's work with the Minnesota high school football system was deplorable at best. He had a good offensive system, but he could have worked much harder as a recruiter. There simply isn't an excuse he can give that merits consideration in my book. Mason is a sharp and presentable guy. He should have been able to sell his program better than he did.

But I am not going to totally dismiss some of Mason's points here. Brewster was brought here as a recruiter, but you can go to the garden and pick all of the best-looking flowers and when they are put together they may make a very ugly bouquet. You recruit to a system. To have a system, you need a vision. And Tim Brewster is the football version of George H.W. Bush (Bush #41) when it comes to the "vision thing." In truth, someone supposedly as astute as Maturi should have realized that simply recruiting better players wasn't the complete answer. It's players and system that push you up in the football world.

Mason did a nice job at Minnesota. He worked within the confines of an athletic program that, in fairness to him, did not give him enough support to bring in quality assistants across-the-board. But he seems to think he should win the Nobel Prize for Football because he had several seasons with two 1,000 yard rushers. I wish he would have concentrated on fixing the defense instead.

The Brewster episode seems to have woken up Minnesota football fans. We're either "in it to win it" or we need to be satisfied with the Mason-esque stance that "we're never going to be Ohio State, so let's just be who we are." There needs to be a culture change.
 

raragophers said:
How often do the Vikings seriously compete for a NFC North title on a regular basis? How often do the gophers seriously contend for a big ten champsionship? The opportunity to contend is the underlying difference in fan support.
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How easy is it to compete in the NFL where salary caps, rigged schedules and the draft essentially set it up for extreme parity? VERY VERY DIFFERENT than college football. If parity is your goal, maybe you should stick to the pro game.
 

Miami wanted Alvarez and he declined. Iowa and Wisky do a great job of retaining good coaches. They pay!!!!!!!
 

Gopher07 said:
How easy is it to compete in the NFL where salary caps, rigged schedules and the draft essentially set it up for extreme parity? VERY VERY DIFFERENT than college football. If parity is your goal, maybe you should stick to the pro game.
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THAT IS EXACTLY MY POINT. Parity within the NFL creates more fan support on a year in year out basis than it does with college programs such as the Gophers. This is the reason why MN will always be a Vikings state.
 

And I'm arguing that if you're a college football fan for the same reasons you're an NFL fan, you don't get it. There are plenty of people in the state that do get it, we just need to give them a taste of success.

If we went 9-3, 7-5, 8-4, 10-2, 9-3 in consecutive years, the Gophers would be the talk of the town. But by your definition we'd be "mediocre" because in only one of those seasons would we compete for a Rose Bowl. That's the issue I have with your definition, and disagree that we wouldn't garner support.
 


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