Marcus: Gopher basketball early projected lineup

[Keyser Söze]

The questioning of Dp's gopher fandom is a bit ridiculous. He's far from alone for being critical on Pitino, he's just much more consistent than most. I've appreciated a couple back and forth's with DP and he's always someone that keeps you on your toes. Can't slide BS and hyperbole past him, which I appreciate. I wish he could find it within himself to not be such a urinator when others are trying to have fun, particularly if someone makes and off hand comment against Tubby, however I respect his consistency.

Also along the lines of his "fandom", go read some of what he says about Fleck on the football board. He's not anti Gopher, he's anti inconsistent success measurements, which if you compare Pitino to his predecessor on paper without any ancillary comments, Pitino is playing with house money, even I a historically pro Pitino poster, (not as stallwart as I used to be) can admit that.

I don't doubt that he is a Gopher fan, but I do think that the fact he was against Tubby being fired may subconsciously make him more critical of Pitino and influence how he has viewed him from the start.

I was a huge Tubby fan until he plateaued and recruiting went downhill. It's easier to be optimistic about Pitino than it was with Tubby at the end of his tenure because Pitino had a great year last year and got Big Ten COTY and is recruiting much better talent right now than Tubby was before he was fired. You can't blame Pitino for the suspension and all the injuries this year. It just doesn't make sense. I know some people think we still should have done a little better, but I would much rather judge a coach based on how he does with a relatively intact roster than what he does with a completely decimated one.

 

[GopherPlaya]

I don't doubt that he is a Gopher fan, but I do think that the fact he was against Tubby being fired may subconsciously make him more critical of Pitino and influence how he has viewed him from the start.

I was a huge Tubby fan until he plateaued and recruiting went downhill. It's easier to be optimistic about Pitino than it was with Tubby at the end of his tenure because Pitino had a great year last year and got Big Ten COTY and is recruiting much better talent right now than Tubby was before he was fired. You can't blame Pitino for the suspension and all the injuries this year. It just doesn't make sense. I know some people think we still should have done a little better, but I would much rather judge a coach based on how he does with a relatively intact roster than what he does with a completely decimated one.

What you are saying kind of works the same way with Tubby though. He had injuries and suspensions to deal with and still made the NCAA or NIT in 5 of 6 years. He was fired after winning a NCAA tourney game. We are optimistic about Pitino mainly because he brought a recruiting class full of Minnesota kids. We have only been to the NCAA tourney or NIT twice in Pitino's 5 season and finished with 6 wins or less in Big Ten play the other 3. I don't understand what are we so optimistic about.

 

[Winasota Gopher]

I don't doubt that he is a Gopher fan, but I do think that the fact he was against Tubby being fired may subconsciously make him more critical of Pitino and influence how he has viewed him from the start.

I was a huge Tubby fan until he plateaued and recruiting went downhill. It's easier to be optimistic about Pitino than it was with Tubby at the end of his tenure because Pitino had a great year last year and got Big Ten COTY and is recruiting much better talent right now than Tubby was before he was fired. You can't blame Pitino for the suspension and all the injuries this year. It just doesn't make sense. I know some people think we still should have done a little better, but I would much rather judge a coach based on how he does with a relatively intact roster than what he does with a completely decimated one.

This is where everyone gets mad at DP and all he is doing is being factually correct.

Tubby's plateau is higher than Pitino's "peak" at this juncture. What would you rather have a NCAA 2nd round appearance or a COTY? What would you rather have recruiting wins or tournament appearances? Tubby got fired when he was achieving at a much greater rate than Pitino has dreamed of to date.

I get your argument, and have probably made it, but it's factually incorrect. Call DP a hater, he's not, he's just not letting people re-write Tubby's time with the UofM and stomp all over it while making excuses for Pitino.

 

[Keyser Söze]

This is where everyone gets mad at DP and all he is doing is being factually correct.

Tubby's plateau is higher than Pitino's "peak" at this juncture. What would you rather have a NCAA 2nd round appearance or a COTY? What would you rather have recruiting wins or tournament appearances? Tubby got fired when he was achieving at a much greater rate than Pitino has dreamed of to date.

I get your argument, and have probably made it, but it's factually incorrect. Call DP a hater, he's not, he's just not letting people re-write Tubby's time with the UofM and stomp all over it while making excuses for Pitino.

Which part of my argument is factually incorrect? I think you're assuming something that I didn't say. I never compared Tubby and Pitino's peaks. I have more optimism with Pitino right now than I did with Tubby right before he was fired because I think Tubby plateaued and don't believe Pitino has. I'm not comparing their accomplishments, I'm comparing where I saw the program going.

Tubby's 2012 recruiting class was Charles Buggs and Wally Ellenson. His 2013 class was Alex Foster and Alvin Ellis. That is outrageously bad. Feel free to disagree (I don't know how you could), but I viewed recruiting as trending downward and didn't like where things were going. Tubby was old and it seemed like he was losing it. Meanwhile, compare those two classes to Isaiah Washington (jury still out, but I think he's going to be really good) in 2017 and Oturu, Kalscheur, and Omersa in 2018. I know the jury is still out on them too, but I am much, much more confident with Pitino's two most recent recruiting classes than I was with Tubby's last two. The oncourt results last year were due to things out of his control. I think the previous year is more indicative of what we can expect from him and I think there is potential to gradually improve from that.

 

[Winasota Gopher]

Which part of my argument is factually incorrect? I think you're assuming something that I didn't say. I never compared Tubby and Pitino's peaks. I have more optimism with Pitino right now than I did with Tubby right before he was fired because I think Tubby plateaued and don't believe Pitino has. I'm not comparing their accomplishments, I'm comparing where I saw the program going.

Tubby's 2012 recruiting class was Charles Buggs and Wally Ellenson. His 2013 class was Alex Foster and Alvin Ellis. That is outrageously bad. Feel free to disagree (I don't know how you could), but I viewed recruiting as trending downward and didn't like where things were going. Tubby was old and it seemed like he was losing it. Meanwhile, compare those two classes to Isaiah Washington (jury still out, but I think he's going to be really good) in 2017 and Oturu, Kalscheur, and Omersa in 2018. I know the jury is still out on them too, but I am much, much more confident with Pitino's two most recent recruiting classes than I was with Tubby's last two. The oncourt results last year were due to things out of his control. I think the previous year is more indicative of what we can expect from him and I think there is potential to gradually improve from that.

"I was a huge Tubby fan until he plateaued and recruiting went downhill."

You're saying this isn't comparing Pitino to Tubby? Forget comparing their' peaks... because Tubby would win that, what about their valleys? Tubby wins that as well.

Or were you speaking of strictly recruiting? And if recruiting is the barometer then nevermind lets not have the conversation.

 

[Keyser Söze]

"I was a huge Tubby fan until he plateaued and recruiting went downhill."

You're saying this isn't comparing Pitino to Tubby? Forget comparing their' peaks... because Tubby would win that, what about their valleys? Tubby wins that as well.

Or were you speaking of strictly recruiting? And if recruiting is the barometer then nevermind lets not have the conversation.

I was in no way shape or form comparing Tubby's peak to Pitino's peak, nor do I think it matters in the context of what I was saying. Again, my focus and my reason for optimism is because of where I see things going in the future, not what has happened in the past. Tubby improved the program from when he took over, but was struggling to take the next step. Regardless of the reasoning for that, I didn't see things getting any better. Recruiting directly impacts the product that a coach puts on the floor. Tubby's recruiting regressed, their is no doubting that. His last two recruiting classes were horrendous, and if he continued coaching here and his recruiting continued on the trend it was on, things were bound to get ugly.

I felt both in recruiting and on the court Tubby had plateaued here. That was just my opinion. It is neither factually correct nor factually incorrect, I just personally didn't think things were going to improve any further with him based on his age and how recruiting was trending down. It's also my personal opinion that Pitino has not plateaued yet. I felt he was trending up until last years temporary road block caused by injuries, and the recruits he has coming in makes me optimistic that he can continue the upward trend that he was on.

I have nothing against Tubby. He left the program better than he found it and by all accounts seems like a good guy. Losing energy and ambition as you age is normal and I think that is what happened.

 

[Winasota Gopher]

I felt both in recruiting and on the court Tubby had plateaued here. That was just my opinion. It is neither factually correct nor factually incorrect, I just personally didn't think things were going to improve any further with him based on his age and how recruiting was trending down. If we continued having recruiting classes like his last two, I think we would have been in really rough shape. It's also my personal opinion that Pitino has not plateaued yet. I felt he was trending up until last years temporary road block caused by injuries.

I have nothing against Tubby. He left the program better than he found it and by all accounts seems like a good guy. Losing energy and ambition as you age is normal and I think that is what happened.

Fine, you're right you can't be factually incorrect because you're just using "my opinion" as a shield. I personally have the same feelings as you, but I won't use words/phrases like "Tubby Plateaued" as a defense of my opinion on Pitino. You can continue doing so if you choose, but the FACT IS Tubby won an NCAA tournament game, something Pitino hasn't sniffed getting to yet.

We're officially derailed now. My point was to come in here and defend DP, not sure why I felt that was a hill worthy to die on, but I understand his frustration, and your posts "feelings" are what gets DP (at least in my observations) to chime in and be the "anti Gopher".

 

[Keyser Söze]

Fine, you're right you can't be factually incorrect because you're just using "my opinion" as a shield. I personally have the same feelings as you, but I won't use words/phrases like "Tubby Plateaued" as a defense of my opinion on Pitino. You can continue doing so if you choose, but the FACT IS Tubby won an NCAA tournament game, something Pitino hasn't sniffed getting to yet.

We're officially derailed now. My point was to come in here and defend DP, not sure why I felt that was a hill worthy to die on, but I understand his frustration, and your posts "feelings" are what gets DP (at least in my observations) to chime in and be the "anti Gopher".

Lol I'm not trying to "use a shield". There is a big difference between stating things that are blatantly, factually incorrect (which is usually what dpo calls people out for) and stating a reasonable opinion that you might not agree with. I'm backing up why I feel Tubby plateaued here with what I consider to be reasonable arguments, and you're welcome to disagree if you want, but that's all it is, is a disagreement. I just wanted to explain why I was optimistic about Pitino and why I don't think it's unfair for me to feel that way when I didn't feel that way about Tubby.

 

[WanderingGopher]

I thought we overrated that season. We started off 3-6 in the Big Ten (during a down year) then won 7 in row but a young Maryland team & Michigan at home were the wins vs teams with a Big Ten record during that stretch. We lost as a 5 seed to Middle Tennessee State with Springs being the only injured player, which should not have set us back that with normal depth.

Then last year we received a lot of hype but I watched us vs Miami, Arkansas and Nebraska we were at full strength and lost vs Drake we squeaked a 1 point victory. We were a good team, but I don't understand how fans guarantee we were a definite NCAA team if we didn't have injuries. Maybe with Curry we would have been but we can't give Pitino a pass on us not having at least 1 viable big man option after Reggie & Curry.

Saying "just Springs" was hurt in the NCAA tourney game is way understating things. If we had "just Springs" we probably would have won at least the first round game and I believe we would have won the Big Ten tourney. Also, Mason got hurt when the game was still in question, and badly affected his play -- if you recall, had to have surgery and was out for like 3 months afterward.

As to last year, I am disappointed the team basically quit and I partly hold Pitino accountable for that, but I am also not surprised at it. I mean, the blows that team took were ridiculous, one after another. I agree that they started looking iffy early in the year -- they just were not clicking -- but it bears repeating that the team likely knew what was coming regarding Lynch. I really think that affected the team long before the hammer came down. Also bears repeating that McBrayer missing the Miami game likely cost them that game, which put a lot different spin on the first 2 months of the year.

We are getting close to the point, though, where even though all these excuses are legit it just doesn't matter. Gotta produce this year, end of story. Somewhat similar to the end of Tubby's regime; early on he had a lot of bad breaks with injuries, transfers, and ineligibility (such as Nolen) and that really killed the momentum of his tenure and he never recovered. I'm seeing some parallels with Pitino, starting with the uphill climb (after last year) to land some of these guys from the great 2019 in-state class of recruits. Pitino has to find a way to land a couple good recruits this summer and then back that up with good results on and off the court this year.

 

[bizzle22]

Which part of my argument is factually incorrect? I think you're assuming something that I didn't say. I never compared Tubby and Pitino's peaks. I have more optimism with Pitino right now than I did with Tubby right before he was fired because I think Tubby plateaued and don't believe Pitino has. I'm not comparing their accomplishments, I'm comparing where I saw the program going.

Tubby's 2012 recruiting class was Charles Buggs and Wally Ellenson. His 2013 class was Alex Foster and Alvin Ellis. That is outrageously bad. Feel free to disagree (I don't know how you could), but I viewed recruiting as trending downward and didn't like where things were going. Tubby was old and it seemed like he was losing it. Meanwhile, compare those two classes to Isaiah Washington (jury still out, but I think he's going to be really good) in 2017 and Oturu, Kalscheur, and Omersa in 2018. I know the jury is still out on them too, but I am much, much more confident with Pitino's two most recent recruiting classes than I was with Tubby's last two. The oncourt results last year were due to things out of his control. I think the previous year is more indicative of what we can expect from him and I think there is potential to gradually improve from that.

I see that you are offering your opinion and have no problem with that. I'm sure you are aware that not everyone shares that same opinion, but you are certainly entitled to state yours on a message board just like the rest of us. I have a different one:

I wasn't ecstatic about the 2012 class, but I don't know if I agree that it looked "outrageously bad" at the time. Ellenson also had offers from West Virginia, Utah, and Nebraska so it isn't like Tubby was the only one who saw something there. I'm sure his younger brother (a la Michael Hurt) was a factor in his recruiting. Buggs was a project which is why he was redshirted. I'm not arguing they were a good class by any means, and obviously hindsight is 20/20. The MN high school class of that year was pretty awful.

And I'm not sure it is completely fair to say Tubby's class was Foster and Ellis. We still had one scholarship available and were working hard to flip Gavin Schilling. Possibly could have with his AAU teammates Alex Foster and Alvin Ellis already committed. And Foster and Ellis weren't some no name 2-star recruits. Foster was a three star with offers from Tennessee, Auburn, Wisconsin, and Nebraska. Ellis was also a three star with offers from Michigan State, Kansas State, Tennessee, and Wichita State. With our third we either could have gotten Schilling or possibly Reid Travis. We'll never know. (Although I do think it is safe to say we weren't getting Tyus or Rashad Vaughan regardless of whether the coach was Pitino or Tubby.)

I realize that most of the guys I mentioned never went on to have great collegiate careers, but I'm also a big believer that unless you are talking about the top tier recruits it can really come down to the system and how a player is used to determine how successful he is in college. (That could turn into a whole other conversation and we don't need to go down that rabbit hole.)

Just trying to point out that there were also reasons for optimism after the 2012-13 season. I felt like the players we had coming back were capable of making the NCAA tournament again, which is a big reason why I do not look as favorably on the 2013-14 season as others do. But I get it that it is a matter of personal opinion.

 

[Tim1406]

Maybe with Curry we would have been but we can't give Pitino a pass on us not having at least 1 viable big man option after Reggie & Curry.

I hope we are better this year but I still think if you look at 2 years ago we may be overrating Pitino as a coach because I remember while they were 3-6 a lot of us thought he was in over his head.

How many teams have 3 legitimate centers? Maybe just MSU last year but outside of that I can’t think of any team that could withstand losing 2 centers in one year... then there were the other injured players.

Anyway my overall point was to point out that a season should be judged on more than what round of the tournament you get to. Regular season matters as well.

 

[GopherPlaya]

How many teams have 3 legitimate centers? Maybe just MSU last year but outside of that I can’t think of any team that could withstand losing 2 centers in one year... then there were the other injured players.

Anyway my overall point was to point out that a season should be judged on more than what round of the tournament you get to. Regular season matters as well.

Eric Curry is not a true center. He was a 4 that can play 5 in stretches. We only had 1 true center who we didn't recruit he was a transfer coming back to his home state

 

[Keyser Söze]

I see that you are offering your opinion and have no problem with that. I'm sure you are aware that not everyone shares that same opinion, but you are certainly entitled to state yours on a message board just like the rest of us. I have a different one:

I wasn't ecstatic about the 2012 class, but I don't know if I agree that it looked "outrageously bad" at the time. Ellenson also had offers from West Virginia, Utah, and Nebraska so it isn't like Tubby was the only one who saw something there. I'm sure his younger brother (a la Michael Hurt) was a factor in his recruiting. Buggs was a project which is why he was redshirted. I'm not arguing they were a good class by any means, and obviously hindsight is 20/20. The MN high school class of that year was pretty awful.

And I'm not sure it is completely fair to say Tubby's class was Foster and Ellis. We still had one scholarship available and were working hard to flip Gavin Schilling. Possibly could have with his AAU teammates Alex Foster and Alvin Ellis already committed. And Foster and Ellis weren't some no name 2-star recruits. Foster was a three star with offers from Tennessee, Auburn, Wisconsin, and Nebraska. Ellis was also a three star with offers from Michigan State, Kansas State, Tennessee, and Wichita State. With our third we either could have gotten Schilling or possibly Reid Travis. We'll never know. (Although I do think it is safe to say we weren't getting Tyus or Rashad Vaughan regardless of whether the coach was Pitino or Tubby.)

I realize that most of the guys I mentioned never went on to have great collegiate careers, but I'm also a big believer that unless you are talking about the top tier recruits it can really come down to the system and how a player is used to determine how successful he is in college. (That could turn into a whole other conversation and we don't need to go down that rabbit hole.)

Just trying to point out that there were also reasons for optimism after the 2012-13 season. I felt like the players we had coming back were capable of making the NCAA tournament again, which is a big reason why I do not look as favorably on the 2013-14 season as others do. But I get it that it is a matter of personal opinion.

It's hard to remember as it was a long time ago, but I remember people saying that most, if not all of the high major offers for Alex Foster had expired as he failed to develop the way people expected when he was younger. He ended up being rated 222 in the composite, which isn't good for a high major recruit. I don't remember any excitement around his commitment and people were pretty lukewarm about Ellis' commitment as well. His composite ranking was even worse at 317. Wally's was 266 and Buggs' didn't have a comparable one as he was a prep school recruit. Oturu at 49 and Washington at 62 blow those guys out of the water and Kalscheur and Omersa are ranked higher than anyone from the 2012 and 2013 classes too. Gavin Schilling wouldn't have saved those classes even if he would have committed.

Adding Stull and Carr are huge too, especially Carr. Recruiting right now is much, much better than the end of Tubby's time here. Next season is going to be fun, even with Carr sitting out.

 

[ltf]

I see that you are offering your opinion and have no problem with that. I'm sure you are aware that not everyone shares that same opinion, but you are certainly entitled to state yours on a message board just like the rest of us. I have a different one:

I wasn't ecstatic about the 2012 class, but I don't know if I agree that it looked "outrageously bad" at the time. Ellenson also had offers from West Virginia, Utah, and Nebraska so it isn't like Tubby was the only one who saw something there. I'm sure his younger brother (a la Michael Hurt) was a factor in his recruiting. Buggs was a project which is why he was redshirted. I'm not arguing they were a good class by any means, and obviously hindsight is 20/20. The MN high school class of that year was pretty awful.

And I'm not sure it is completely fair to say Tubby's class was Foster and Ellis. We still had one scholarship available and were working hard to flip Gavin Schilling. Possibly could have with his AAU teammates Alex Foster and Alvin Ellis already committed. And Foster and Ellis weren't some no name 2-star recruits. Foster was a three star with offers from Tennessee, Auburn, Wisconsin, and Nebraska. Ellis was also a three star with offers from Michigan State, Kansas State, Tennessee, and Wichita State. With our third we either could have gotten Schilling or possibly Reid Travis. We'll never know. (Although I do think it is safe to say we weren't getting Tyus or Rashad Vaughan regardless of whether the coach was Pitino or Tubby.)

I realize that most of the guys I mentioned never went on to have great collegiate careers, but I'm also a big believer that unless you are talking about the top tier recruits it can really come down to the system and how a player is used to determine how successful he is in college. (That could turn into a whole other conversation and we don't need to go down that rabbit hole.)

Just trying to point out that there were also reasons for optimism after the 2012-13 season. I felt like the players we had coming back were capable of making the NCAA tournament again, which is a big reason why I do not look as favorably on the 2013-14 season as others do. But I get it that it is a matter of personal opinion.

Have to admit I have never heard anyone defend those two recruiting classes. Pitino has been excoriated for his roster construction. Would you come to Pitino's defense if he had back to back classes of that ilk? I wouldn't.

 

[builtbadgers]

Replacing Tubby was the right move. Replacing with RP was not the plan so no point in the comparison. The U had another terrible AD and his plan to hire a basketball coach was deeply flawed. I still stand by Pitino despite not a ounce of proof that he will be great or even good. Seldom if ever has a coach been this far under .500 in conference after 5 years and turned it around to become elite. He has not won a single meaningful thing in 5 years. No conference title, no conference tourney and not a single NCAA tourney game. Yet i like the pieces on this roster and he is the coach we have. But anyone who defends 31-59 and a single 24-10 season has very low expectations. It is ok to support a program and expect excellence.

 

[MennoSota]

Losing energy and ambition as you age is normal and I think that is what happened.

That's why you take the little blue pill...

 

[ltf]

Replacing Tubby was the right move. Replacing with RP was not the plan so no point in the comparison. The U had another terrible AD and his plan to hire a basketball coach was deeply flawed. I still stand by Pitino despite not a ounce of proof that he will be great or even good. Seldom if ever has a coach been this far under .500 in conference after 5 years and turned it around to become elite. He has not won a single meaningful thing in 5 years. No conference title, no conference tourney and not a single NCAA tourney game. Yet i like the pieces on this roster and he is the coach we have. But anyone who defends 31-59 and a single 24-10 season has very low expectations. It is ok to support a program and expect excellence.

I am not sure if he'll be great or good either. The thing I am convinced of is that he would have likely had back to back round of 32, at least, teams if suspension and an inordinate number of injuries hadn't occurred. I know this isn't enough for Pitino to win over some, but it is enough to win over me.

 

[builtbadgers]

So it is good enough for you that HE MIGHT have had back to back round of 32 at least ! Tons of programs could whine about injuries, every year gets them. Might, could, if but is the talk of programs that never win.

 

[ltf]

So it is good enough for you that HE MIGHT have had back to back round of 32 at least ! Tons of programs could whine about injuries, every year gets them. Might, could, if but is the talk of programs that never win.

Not might. Highly likely round of 32. Possibly better.

 

[builtbadgers]

I am not sure if he'll be great or good either. The thing I am convinced of is that he would have likely had back to back round of 32, at least, teams if suspension and an inordinate number of injuries hadn't occurred. I know this isn't enough for Pitino to win over some, but it is enough to win over me.

Apologize for responding that way. I expressed my feelings and my stance as a fan. You are entitled your very own take.

 

[builtbadgers]

Not might. Highly likely round of 32. Possibly better.

Highly likely ? The team two years ago did not come close to winning the conference, beat 2 good teams all year, won a single conference tourney game, played a mediocre schedule. Not likely for me. Oh well, you have your take.

 

[ltf]

Highly likely ? The team two years ago did not come close to winning the conference, beat 2 good teams all year, won a single conference tourney game, played a mediocre schedule. Not likely for me. Oh well, you have your take.

I feel it highly likely they beat mtsu with Springs and Mason. They gave away games early in the year, but were playing really well 2nd half of the season To be honest, I feel it highly likely they at least make the tourney this past year. Not so sure about round of 32- hard to know how a healthy season would have played out for sure. I know you disagree, but this is enough for me to feel like progress has been made and to feel we are on an upward trajectory.

 

[builtbadgers]

I feel it highly likely they beat mtsu with Springs and Mason. They gave away games early in the year, but were playing really well 2nd half of the season To be honest, I feel it highly likely they at least make the tourney this past year. Not so sure about round of 32- hard to know how a healthy season would have played out for sure. I know you disagree, but this is enough for me to feel like progress has been made and to feel we are on an upward trajectory.

I am very high on this years team and it being the 6th year it is time to win the conference. That is what great coaches do. They do not sport 31-59 conference records !

 

[ltf]

Apologize for responding that way. I expressed my feelings and my stance as a fan. You are entitled your very own take.

No need. Your bona fides are certainly well beyond my own and if things turn out the way you expect, I'll be among those who are excited about a new coach who can bring sustained success.

 

[bizzle22]

Have to admit I have never heard anyone defend those two recruiting classes. Pitino has been excoriated for his roster construction. Would you come to Pitino's defense if he had back to back classes of that ilk? I wouldn't.

I don't really care about recruiting class rankings. The point of my post was to show that the same situation can be looked at from very different perspectives. IMO It's silly to worry about recruiting rankings when you have a coach who is getting results on the court. At a certain point, you have to trust that a coach knows what he is doing based on results.

In response, I'd pose this question to you: Let's pretend we made the NCAA tournament and advanced to the round of 32 last year, on a scale of 1-10 how dumb would you think I was for wanting to fire Pitino over recruiting rankings?

 

[EG#9]

Interesting posts in this thread over the past few pages, I enjoyed reading the back and forth. For me, I really don't see how you can defend the Pitino tenure to this point. His 31-59 conference record through 5 years is actually worse than Penn State(!) has been over that same time frame (32-58). He certainly can point to injuries derailing his last season, but after 5 years the overall resume should be better. I know this thread has drifted in to the Tubby vs Pitino waters, and I think it's a frustration of some (as has been stated in this thread) that they don't seem to be being judged by the same standard. I absolutely think firing Tubby was the right move, but I acknowledge that he had his own terrible injury luck (people forget that Pitino's first team might have been in the NCAA's too if Andre doesn't injure his ankle, bad injury luck has really haunted this program in this two decade long period of underachievement). The other thing with Tubby, and I posted about this before, is that he was really hampered by a dry spell of local talent. The research is in a previous post of mine, but from 2010-2013, the highest rated recruit out of Minnesota was Joe Coleman.

I thought a change should have been made after last season, and I remain concerned about how Coach Pitino recruits this 2019 class. He's acknowledged in his radio interviews in the past that it was tough for him to make strides on the recruiting trail after his disastrous year 3 and now he's facing a similar challenge after year 5. I do like Coach Pitino, but at some point you run out of opportunity to show you can put a program together. I'll be rooting for him to put his team in the dance this year and to solidify his status.

 

[ltf]

I don't really care about recruiting class rankings. The point of my post was to show that the same situation can be looked at from very different perspectives. IMO It's silly to worry about recruiting rankings when you have a coach who is getting results on the court. At a certain point, you have to trust that a coach knows what he is doing based on results.

In response, I'd pose this question to you: Let's pretend we made the NCAA tournament and advanced to the round of 32 last year, on a scale of 1-10 how dumb would you think I was for wanting to fire Pitino over recruiting rankings?

I never wrote anything about recruiting rankings. You think Tubby could have turned those players into very good big ten players? We will disagree but guess there's no way to prove it conclusively either way.

 

[Otis]

I am very high on this years team and it being the 6th year it is time to win the conference. That is what great coaches do. They do not sport 31-59 conference records !

If the Gophers went 18-0 in the conference next year there would be those still complaining about Pitino having a 49-59 conference record.

Those are just the facts.

 

[bleedsmaroonandgold]

I don't really care about recruiting class rankings. The point of my post was to show that the same situation can be looked at from very different perspectives. IMO It's silly to worry about recruiting rankings when you have a coach who is getting results on the court. At a certain point, you have to trust that a coach knows what he is doing based on results.

In response, I'd pose this question to you: Let's pretend we made the NCAA tournament and advanced to the round of 32 last year, on a scale of 1-10 how dumb would you think I was for wanting to fire Pitino over recruiting rankings?

+1

For good coaches, nobody talks about their recruiting rankings or how good they might have been if they never had an injured player as their top accomplishments.

 

[ltf]

Interesting how people can look at the same thing and have such different interpretations. dpodoll maybe had it the most right in posting that his biggest fear is a middling record this next season. I had not really thought about that before, but maybe best if we are outstanding so everyone
can get on board and will lead to even better recruiting, or be awful so can move on to hopefully a transformative coach.